New Buildings Discussion

[Hydromancerx]

I'd be indebted to anyone who can take care of those edits.

I tried but then things messed up. Also the Police Station should not be exactly that. It should keep some of its other features. And divine right should be moved to Guardhouse. Eh i will try to take another attempt at it later.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Also the Police Station should not be exactly that. It should keep some of its other features.

The main thing was that the espionage % was WAY too high for the progression. I don't think I totally removed any features did I?

And divine right should be moved to Guardhouse.

If the Guard is opened up at Warrants and Decrees, the Guardhouse should be there as well - this follows the same pattern with every other previous LE unit.

Thanks for the efforts!

 

[Hydromancerx]

Ok I uploaded it to the SVN. Let me know what you think. It is close but not exact to your plans.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Well... I'm not sure why we need to continue to make the police station so excessive... 40% espionage is pretty close to a national wonder level modifier. And why we need to keep it enabling a spy when the spy was always a proxy investigator before we had investigators in the first place is a little lost on me. IIRC in the real world, we aren't employing spies out of police stations. We DO have some criminal informants out there but it's rarely an international effort. The + and +% espionage from these law buildings come from interrogations of general public turning up valuable information for international intelligence efforts.

If we want something else for the spy, it just gives us cause to invent another building for the modern era. DH started some interesting Spy building chains... I guess the massive jump in gold cost is an attempt to balance some of this surge in power here too?

But I won't argue it out... not without a more complete plan that includes bringing the Police Precinct (the upgrade for the Police Station) in to help make visible another stage in the upgrade chain. Additionally, I'd like to include a Guard Station between Guardhouse and Police Station, for the City Guard. We probably also need some buildings beyond that as I think there's another very significant gap thereafter.

The only thing we've overlooked up to this point, it seems, is to make the Guard require the Guardhouse now.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I guess the massive jump in gold cost is an attempt to balance some of this surge in power here too?

This really needs to be watched. Massive Maint costs are not as needed as they were 2 years ago. Try to keep it somewhat scaled with previous building costs for now. Once I rebalance the modifiers for all Game Speeds (which have modifiers for this at about the top level that act as global modifiers). New buildings with out of line maint costs (gold costs) will stick out like sore thumbs and the players will shun them And complain as well.

 

[Faustmouse]

I have to agree with Joseph and TB here. Buildings, especially upgrates to another one, should be somewhat in line with others. This doesn't mean a "boring" +1 :espionage, -1 per turn etc... I'm also a fan of merging building lines together or even having two lines branching off from one building. But these should all be somewhat reasonable (realistically) and balanced (game-wise). The Police Station was always way to OP, but now that this building line is kinda reviewed, it should be tamed a bit.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well then you guys please look over the existing police station and post a proposal of ALL its stats. The police station is special in that it has a bunch of upgrades. Like the Castle the Police station has lots of buildings that depend upon it.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I moved the Spy functions away from the Police functions in the Ancient to Medieval but did not get further along with the split.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Well then you guys please look over the existing police station and post a proposal of ALL its stats. The police station is special in that it has a bunch of upgrades. Like the Castle the Police station has lots of buildings that depend upon it.

Well... I had made a proposal that assumes there's going to be one more building between Guardhouse and Police Station and gave a perfect incremental gradiation when that's filled in. Let me show you tomorrow... I've got a date tonight

The police station certainly doesn't stop being a powerful and influential building with what I proposed. And granting access to other buildings isn't really a justification to make a standard building a National Wonder level power. Not saying it's quite that extreme... just discussing.

I moved the Spy functions away from the Police functions in the Ancient to Medieval but did not get further along with the split.

Exactly, I could see where you were going with it though and there's cause to let the Policing lose a little of the spy function, even if there does retain some overlap still. I really like your spy buildings, btw... I don't know if I ever made that point loud enough but I always thought they fit in wonderfully with how things were turning out.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well the later era stuff are a bit more powerful than earlier era building though.

 

[Faustmouse]

Yeah, a BIT. As I said, an increasing growth is ok,or even good, but it shouldn't make to big jumps.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yeah, a BIT. As I said, an increasing growth is ok,or even good, but it shouldn't make to big jumps.

Exactly, especially with % mods which can quickly mean a LOT.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

If you are going to have torture in game may I suggest it be a World View. The buildings would only be available when the World View is active. It would be opened with a captive and ended either by a Great Person or by a World Convention proposed by the UN or Council of Vienna (if it ever works). Each leader would need a promotion defined and captives would have that promotion to define who they belong to. Totureing them would give varying espionage style information ranging from just espionage points against that leader's nation to maps of their current troop locations.

With the extra defensive buildings have you considered them being made available not by a tech but by a Military Tradition ie they need a Great General to come up with the idea.

 

[Thunderbrd]

If you are going to have torture in game may I suggest it be a World View. The buildings would only be available when the World View is active. It would be opened with a captive and ended either by a Great Person or by a World Convention proposed by the UN or Council of Vienna (if it ever works). Each leader would need a promotion defined and captives would have that promotion to define who they belong to. Totureing them would give varying espionage style information ranging from just espionage points against that leader's nation to maps of their current troop locations.

With the extra defensive buildings have you considered them being made available not by a tech but by a Military Tradition ie they need a Great General to come up with the idea.

This is all stuff in your wheelhouse and it all sounds awesome! You really should consider sticking with us here and working things out for what you want to do so dramatically differently as a modmod because you KNOW you can't trust us to to 'what you do' right ... right?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

This is all stuff in your wheelhouse and it all sounds awesome! You really should consider sticking with us here and working things out for what you want to do so dramatically differently as a modmod because you KNOW you can't trust us to to 'what you do' right ... right?

At the moment the only thing the same between my mod and C2C is the Civics screen but not the Civics themselves

 

[Hydromancerx]

I know we have a great farmer but I was thinking maybe we should have some sort of "Heirloom Crops" that would come at a new Horticulture tech. They would work like the "Herd" buildings. And allow you to generate crop resource from a building. I don't know if we want to have it on say the Great Farmer or some new unit like a "Botanist" or "Horticulturist". Alternatively maybe it should just be buildable if they have the resource. This could be a lot easier to implement. And thus would act more like the "National Reserve" buildings.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I know we have a great farmer but I was thinking maybe we should have some sort of "Heirloom Crops" that would come at a new Horticulture tech. They would work like the "Herd" buildings. And allow you to generate crop resource from a building. I don't know if we want to have it on say the Great Farmer or some new unit like a "Botanist" or "Horticulturist". Alternatively maybe it should just be buildable if they have the resource. This could be a lot easier to implement. And thus would act more like the "National Reserve" buildings.

You can only have one unit like the Great Farmer.

If you add more then all will be able to do all the functions that you want restricted to just one of them.

I keep saying this but no one appears to take note. It is the way that code works. It can't look at what unit doing the task so can't separate them out. It would be better to replace the current code for the GF with missions and outcomes. That way you can have as many different units as you like. I started doing something for the herd animals which could replace it.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Yeah by the end of the paragraph i realized its better if its not connected to a unit at all. If I do add buildings that produce crop resources they will just require the resource the produce. Thus allowing for the city to generate other city vicinity bonus buildings.

This would be either be near Botany (Renaissance) or maybe near Agricultural Engineering (Industrial). I like the idea of civilization in the Colonial era bringing back exotic crops from the new world.

I also have been thinking about the whole "Heirloom" idea. Basically every crop is "Heirloom" until the modern era with generically modified crops. So I am thinking maybe make a Modern or Information era building called like "Heirloom Seed Bank" national wonder and it can act like a mini Svalbard Global Seed Vault.

 

[Whisperr]

@Hydro

I need a new building and I have been told you are the person to talk to.

Exotic Fish Collector
Needs Coastal City
Fish Resource
Reef/Coral Reef - Not the Great Barrier Reef (you can't collect fish from the Great Barrier Reef)
Gives Exotic Fish resource
Comes into play, I don't know if there is a Tech that has snorkeling if not, Scuba.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Sounds like a cool building. Some possible techs ...

- Marine Biology (Industrial)
- Deep Sea Exploration (Modern)
- Tourism (Modern)
- Aquaculture (Modern)

There is no scuba tech or snorkeling tech. I think Marine Biology would be a good tech for it to be. Though it might be a bit early. Then again ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fishkeeping

Koi Pond anyone?

EDIT:

The first person to breed a tropical fish in Europe was Pierre Carbonnier, who founded one of the oldest public aquaria in Paris in 1850,[5] and bred the first imported Macropods (Paradise fish) in 1869, and later more species. A pioneer of tropical fish breeding, Carbonnier was awarded the Gold Medal of the Imperial French Acclimatization Society in 1875 for research and breeding of exotic freshwater aquarium fish, and for his success in introducing exotic fish species to France.

So the Marine Biology Tech might not be that far off.