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pre-release info New Civ Game Guide: Mississippian

pre-release info
I don't know if there is evidence that the Mississippians used fire arrows against their enemies en masse as a military tactic, but I think there is also a gameplay reason as to why there is such a unit with a strong burning ability.

The Mississippian civilization seems like a counter to the Maya civilization. If you look at the Maya civilization, they appear to be very difficult to reach and fight with another civilization if the Maya cities are surrounded by vegetation. That won't be the case if you play as the Mississippians. You will burn their traps and units before you even reach their cities, nullifying the damage your army would have received otherwise.
I think the reasons are a bit simpler:
1. Firaxis need more unit diversity as with new age and uniqueness system, there are too many unique units replacing the same base unit. They need something to distinguish. We already have 3 unique ranged units for antiquity and they have to do something interesting.
2. Since we know very little about this civilization, FXS allowed themselves to go a bit wilder.
 
I don’t know if I agree. It’s not been stated that the burning status removes traps. The only thing known is it damages units that end their turn there.

I don’t get how that is specific to fighting the Maya.
The Maya have advantages in combat when surrounded by vegetation, the Burning Arrows can negate that by removing the vegetation, and I suspect that the traps might get removed if the forest is burned similar to how buildings were damaged after a fire in Civilization VI.
 
Now I want a SW line that includes Pueblo>Comanche>Navajo with Geronimo as leader. :mischief:
Any 'line' or progression that includes the Comanche should not pass up the chance to have Quanah Parker as a Leader.
He was one of the few Native American Leaders who snookered the Europeans, like Seilacoom and Seattle up here in the Northwest, Red Cloud, the Lakota who Won his war with the US Army.

Parker was a 'half-breed' - son of a Kwahadi Comanche and an American hostage, Cynthia Parker, but he led the Comanche in the Red River War and ran rings around the US Army - not the opinion of later historians, but of Colonel McKenzie who led the 5th US Cavalry against him!

More important, once the combination of fatal disease and overwhelming numbers and the slaughter of the bison made resistance impossible, he arranged a peaceful surrender and the settling of the remaining Comanches on a reservation around Fort Sill, Oklahoma, part of their earlier 'home range' and including the Wichita Mountains, the equivalent of the Lakota's Black Hills: a religious and cultural center for the tribe. Parker ended up as a successful cattle rancher, successfully lobbied Congress for his people (and made friends with McKenzie, who became another spokesman for the Comanche in Congress and the War Department) and was even elected deputy sheriff of Lawton, Oklahoma by his white neighbors!

Geronimo, by contrast, is another Attila: a largely 'one-note' military leader who ended his days in captivity, also at Fort Sill, making cheap bows and arrows for the tourists.

Let's pick more successful Native American leaders wherever we can . . .
 
Apologies if I've missed this, this thread has exploded quite quickly! The Monks Mound wonder is in the Mississippians civic tree - does that make it a wonder exclusive to the Mississippian player, rather than a wonder the player gets a bonus for?
 
Apologies if I've missed this, this thread has exploded quite quickly! The Monks Mound wonder is in the Mississippians civic tree - does that make it a wonder exclusive to the Mississippian player, rather than a wonder the player gets a bonus for?
They probably get it cheaper and faster than through the regular means?
 
Apologies if I've missed this, this thread has exploded quite quickly! The Monks Mound wonder is in the Mississippians civic tree - does that make it a wonder exclusive to the Mississippian player, rather than a wonder the player gets a bonus for?
That's how all the civ-associated wonders work: they can unlock it early in their civic tree. Mississippians have it earlier in their tree, though; most other civs seem to have it in the third civic.
 
Apologies if I've missed this, this thread has exploded quite quickly! The Monks Mound wonder is in the Mississippians civic tree - does that make it a wonder exclusive to the Mississippian player, rather than a wonder the player gets a bonus for?
Egypt has the same for the Pyramids, Greece has the Oracle, and Rome has the Colosseum all in their civics tree as well. Everyone can build them they can just get it faster through their civics tree.
 
From a purely gameplay perspective, I suspect the Mississippians will be popular with new players. Antiquity Age civ with a straightforward set of abilities, plus archers that cast fire spells. They even have a spawn bias towards very basic terrain. No set leader (maybe Tecumseh will be recommended for them?), but that just encourages experimentation like the devs seem to want.
 
Any 'line' or progression that includes the Comanche should not pass up the chance to have Quanah Parker as a Leader.
He was one of the few Native American Leaders who snookered the Europeans, like Seilacoom and Seattle up here in the Northwest, Red Cloud, the Lakota who Won his war with the US Army.

Parker was a 'half-breed' - son of a Kwahadi Comanche and an American hostage, Cynthia Parker, but he led the Comanche in the Red River War and ran rings around the US Army - not the opinion of later historians, but of Colonel McKenzie who led the 5th US Cavalry against him!

More important, once the combination of fatal disease and overwhelming numbers and the slaughter of the bison made resistance impossible, he arranged a peaceful surrender and the settling of the remaining Comanches on a reservation around Fort Sill, Oklahoma, part of their earlier 'home range' and including the Wichita Mountains, the equivalent of the Lakota's Black Hills: a religious and cultural center for the tribe. Parker ended up as a successful cattle rancher, successfully lobbied Congress for his people (and made friends with McKenzie, who became another spokesman for the Comanche in Congress and the War Department) and was even elected deputy sheriff of Lawton, Oklahoma by his white neighbors!

Geronimo, by contrast, is another Attila: a largely 'one-note' military leader who ended his days in captivity, also at Fort Sill, making cheap bows and arrows for the tourists.

Let's pick more successful Native American leaders wherever we can . . .
Quanah Parker would also be great. The only reason why I mentioned Geronimo is because I'd rather a Comanche civ as opposed to an Apache civ, so I went with the Apache leader instead.
 
If the modern age starts with line infantry. Comanche are modern, very rapid expansion. As good and better than any light cavalry in the world. Maybe +1 movement. Look at pictures of their raids into Mexico. Long bolts of cloth tied to their horses tails. One unit wears a tophat and holds an umbrella, another wears a womans pioneer bonnet. Apache are exploration or modern. Dene are ancient holy men of all ages. I would like to see a Pawnee independent power with an improved scout that upgrades though the ages. Goyaale, "Geronimo" was hard steel and lightning with a heart for his people.
 
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Comanche are modern, very rapid expansion. Apache are exploration or modern. Dene are ancient holy men of all ages. I would like to see a Pawnee independent power with an improved scout that upgrades though the ages. Goyaale, "Geronimo" was hard steel and lightning with a heart for his people.

I don't think we are going to see any more native tribes that do not encourage themselves to be associated in a logical antiquity -> exploration -> modern progression with similar/related tribes communicating a similar idea (such as "intertribal coalition" and "river-settling" as is suggested by Tecumseh's Mississippian, Shawnee, and likely third era civ will). It's possible we may see no more options because comparable ideas may never reach the same degree of tribal respect and synergy as "Tecumseh's pan-NA alliance vision being realized through the modern Anishinaabe or Oceti Sakowin." Who knows.

If we are indeed getting a Polynesian throughline representing migration and settling paths from Vanuatu via Samoa/Tonga, Hawaii, and Maori, as well as indications we may get similar migratory paths for Aksum -> Swahili -> Buganda and Wagadu -> Songhai -> Hausa, then I could see a "representation" of "waves of settlers coming across the Bering Strait" being represented by something like the Inuit -> Dene -> Metis, which, if it could work out in a respectful manner, would cover a huge bulk of Canadian tribal territory and representation in the same way Mississippians into Anishinaabe/Oceti Sakowin would. I could similarly see Pama-Nyungan -> Noongar (?) -> larger pan-Aboriginal idea being the very rough beginnings of an equivalent in Australia.

Barring that, I don't think we will see much, if any American tribes after the Shawnee path. As far as antiquity options go, we really only have the Pueblo, and maybe the Haida. While the Pueblo could be reconstructed while avoiding offending the modern Pueblo regarding leader depiction and language, they kind of hit a dead end. They can never progress to the Navajo or Apache in exploration or modern because of very tense/violent historical inter-tribal relationships. And while we could maybe string together Pueblo -> Zuni -> Hopi, (1) I don't think they have ever had the same kind of "pan-alliance" leader idea as Tecumseh, and (2) we still run into the same leader image/language issue with a Zuni or Hopi leader. And as far as the Haida go, (1) they kind of hit a dead end at exploration unless I'm unaware of more modernized ideas we can take the Tlingit/Salish like Tecumseh's pan-Native alliance, and (2) if the Anishinaabe get totem poles a lot of the "PNW tribe" hype will be gone.
 
Yeah I know I don't expect anything. I'm just adding an ndn's perspective to the discussion on ndn topics. I don't know everything but Ive read alot and have perspective and context within the southern plains and some northern woodland ndn worlds.
 
Yeah I know I don't expect anything. I'm just adding an ndn's perspective to the discussion on ndn topics.
Rad. I do like the idea of a Geronimo-led Apache civ. I'm curious what the Apache could progress from in antiquity.
 
Fremontians in Utah?
Ah yes, of course. Fremontians -> SURPRISE SHOSHONE RETURN Utes -> Deseret.

Led by Joseph Smit. American Moses. What will you do Joseph, will you fight the clt-man? (Sal Tlay Ka Sitiiiiiiiii)

(I actually do like the notion of Fremontians into Shoshone, though, a nice way to skirt around Pueblo nonsense and get toward representing as much of the latter half of America with a single civ-line).
 
Yeah, the Fremontians are less Cliffdwellers, but have just as much desert-adapted agriculture and cool petroglyphs.
 
Just a wish list. Branching from Michi sipi.

Woodland
Michi sipi
Exploration - Shawnee
Modern - Anishnabe gels good with Shawnee's rivers freshwater and you could make a modern environmentalist play style based on the political movements around the great lakes. It that would appeal to audiences around the world. There are 180ish bands alive today in North America. You'd find some to help. Turtle Mountain, Red Lake. Bonus food freshwater and culture happiness old growth forests. Maybe lose bonus with oil and coal. Natural wonders of Ontario. Mide lodge, science, relic boost. Ojibwe marksmen civil war. Named Ogechida just copy the Cree civ 6 unit into the modern age as a rifleman.

Old growth forests in big patches in antiquity.

Great Plains
Michi sipi
Exploration - Otoe OR Osage giving Dihegahn some love. Otoe are religious holymen. Osage are giant melee cav.
Modern - Lakota, Dakota, Nakota. OR Comanche

The great buffalo herd was so big it took three days to run by.

Southwest
The southwest has a different origin and bridges to Aztec. Dene, Dene, Dene. Olmec, Pueblo, Dene. Dene, Aztec, Dene. Dene, Aztec, Mexico. Egypt, Dene 😜

Southeast
Michi sipi or Maya
Exploration - Creek - ceremonious expansion, resistance, Red sticks OR Haudneshonee
Modern - Cherokee - very diplomatic, persuasive, trade, hill fighters

Don't know much past the Rockies.

Independents - Pawnee Scouts
 
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But by 1400 CE, whether through natural or political means, the Mississippians had already faded into memory.
Is Wikipedia wrong about them? It lists 1400 as the beginning of their decline, not the end. There is allegedly still an entire Late Mississipian period from 1400 to 1540.
 
Is Wikipedia wrong about them? It lists 1400 as the beginning of their decline, not the end. There is allegedly still an entire Late Mississipian period from 1400 to 1540.
That's correct. Several Spanish expeditions, most notably De Soto's, encountered the crumbling remains of the Mississippian polities. All of them except Natchez were gone by the time English settlers started pushing into the region in the 1600s.
 
That's correct. Several Spanish expeditions, most notably De Soto's, encountered the crumbling remains of the Mississippian polities. All of them except Natchez were gone by the time English settlers started pushing into the region in the 1600s.
Not only the cultures/polities were gone, but also most of the people. European diseases apparently arrived with the Spanish expeditions, and whereas they reported villages as far as the eye could see on both sides of the river, by the time the next 'wave' of Europeans arrived (French explorers after 1690) they found the area on both sides of the Mississippi depopulated and practically deserted.
 
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