pre-release info New Civ Game Guide: Prussia

[Sufyan]

Stuttgart (Wittenberg), Hamburg (Free Town), Dresden, Leipzig (Saxony) were never Prussian towns.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Deutscher_Bund.png

Württemberg, not Wittenberg. And Dresden was at least conquered by Prussia several times. But your point stands.

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

2) Devs actually are going to make yet anothet crazy bold move and indeed introduce 4th era with the entire separate civ roster - so no America post ww2

If there were no other civs in the Fourth Age (which will happen eventually), there'd still be America (probably called "United States")
That may not be obvious from the initial roster of civs and Leaders, but most of Civ VII's development occurred under a very different cultural zeitgeist than today (when a Fourth Age will be fleshed out)
Indeed, the cultural headwinds have shifted so significantly and so suddenly that I'm predicting that we'll get another American Leader for certain, with a significant possibility of it being Ronald Reagan

 

[Krikkit1]

That's actually one of the reasons why I think a 4th age may not happen. Having contemporary nations and/or leaders might feel iffy, particularly given the current world climate.

Certain leaders obviously... but the nice thing is they don't need any amount of 4th age leaders... because a leader is for all ages. [I probably wouldn't put in any one who was a political leader post 1970, because that comes to much commentary on current political issues.... definitely not from the West, for other countries you could look carefully at some of the 'founders' of the country and make sure they aren't too hated by one 'side']

They would need 4th age civs (because of unique mechanics in the 4th age)... but civs are going to be less controversial than leaders, because they are potentially broader.
ie no need for it to be "CCP China" or "North Vietnam"... just China, Korea, etc.... and then avoid certain issues in their abilities/civics (ie 4th age China should Not have a "Great Leap forward"/"Cultural Revolution" Civics/Traditions/ Tianeman Square Wonder... especially since it should be able to have any Government/Ideology in the 4th age)

 

[Ornen]

I don't have figures in front of me, but New England probably held 2/3 or nearly that of the United States' population at the time of independence. It was also culturally and economically dominant for much of the 19th and early 20th century.

mid-Atlantic, but yes, the US was effectively built on an axis from New York to Chicago (the Erie Canal, if we're being technical).

the South had a very distinct regional culture for a long time. still does, but the US has gradually become more a collection of regions since WW2

anyway the Prussian Stuka thing is not something I'm ever going to be worked up about. if anything, it speaks to the occasional silliness of their desire to put "new" civs in the game, especially in these cases when it's really not new in the slightest. should they have called it Germany? absolutely. but I'm all good with Stukas in the game

(we also have Zeroes for "Meiji" Japan and Katyushas for "Imperial" Russia so )

 

[Lord Lakely]

Württemberg, not Wittenberg. And Dresden was at least conquered by Prussia several times. But your point stands.

The list should contain cities from Poland, actually since a huge chunk of it was Prussian at the time: Breslau (Wroclaw), Posen (Posnan), Bromberg (Bydgoszcz), Stettin (Szczeczin), and Danzig (Gdansk) were all important to the Prussians, and so were the Baltic cities of Memel (Klaipeda), Königsberg (Kaliningrad) and Mitau (Jelgava).

There's pretty good information what cities in Germany proper were part of the Prussian empire before the unification, as well as the other in which they were absorbed.

Hopefully it's easy to change the names manually in the code, like it was in Civ3 & Civ4, so I can do that myself.

 

[agamemnon_of_the-bronze_]

I'm not sure I agree that Prussia is too militaristic. I don't enjoy warmongering but can still see myself having fun with Prussia. There seems to be plenty of production and some science and diplo in my mind, looking at the civics and the UI. They seem quite flexible with all that production. And the bonus to being hated and their military capacity seems nice if horsehockey hits the fan.

I think I'll struggle more to enjoy playing Meiji Japan.

i agree. they will be nice because they have the capacity to play peacefully, but will be doing so likely from a position of strength.

 

[Stomper66]

I like the design I don't really like the Stuka choice for UU though. I once heard that the Spitfire was to the Stuka, like the Panzer was to the Sherman tank, completely outclassed it. Japan already has an aircraft UU and if airforce was not historically Germanys strength why make that their focus? Would have much preferred the Tiger tank for the land warfare emphasis and the sheer intimidation factor.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I don't have figures in front of me, but New England probably held 2/3 or nearly that of the United States' population at the time of independence. It was also culturally and economically dominant for much of the 19th and early 20th century.

boston is barely internationally important these days, but it was probably the most important city in the colonies, tho new york and philly were prob close

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

boston is barely internationally important these days, but it was probably the most important city in the colonies, tho new york and philly were prob close

Actually, the estimated population of the 4 largest cities in the American (mainland) colonies when the revolution began were:
Philadelphia - 40,000
New York City - 25,.000
Boston - 15,000
Charleston - 12,000

The reason New York City and Philadelphia had already surpassed Boston was that they provided better access to the interior: eastern Pennsylvania had been settled all the way up to the crest of the Allegheny Mountains by the early 1760s (after the Seven Year's War was won) and the Hudson Valley provided an easy avenue from Manhatten Island all the way north to Albany and had been settled since the Dutch controlled it.

Then, of course, after the Erie Canal was built, New York took off because the combination of canal and the rivers provided easy access from New York City all the way to the Great Lakes and Chicago and so it became the great 'entry point' for immigration in the 19th century.

All that said, though, Boston remained an intellectual capital of the United States until the late 19th century because of its concentration of early educational institutions: Harvard one of the first 'higher education' establishments in North America, followed by the Massachusettes Institute of Technology founded in the 1860s.

 

[Ornen]

boston is barely internationally important these days, but it was probably the most important city in the colonies, tho new york and philly were prob close

I wouldn't put Boston above New York or even Philadelphia, even in 1780. NYC was the first capital of the US and the most important port in the country; Philadelphia was the 2nd biggest city in the British Empire at the time of the revolution, the site of the Continental Congresses and the drafting of the Declaration of Independence, and the revolutionary capital.

I understand Boston's influence as well, I just would not put it above either city by the time of the Revolution. (to say nothing of Virginia, which was a power center on par with New York & Philadelphia)

 

[Baudshaw]

Nice design, though I am still disappointed that we once again get stereotypical militarist design of the modern Germany... Come on, it wouldn't hurt to base it on post ww2 peaceful, democratic, scientific and cultural state and give it Konrad Adenauer instead of cynical militarist leader for once. Germans themselves would certainly love to not be depicted as war obsessed, for obvious reasons.

At least it is not called "Germany", hence giving some chance for the other face of the modern German nation.

Yeah, I think that answered your question, most of the civ 7 civs have stayed away from anything post 1950

 

[Baudshaw]

3) Fourth age is indeed going to have an entire separate civ roster, but some countries such as America are going to get anyway as their sci fi futuristic versions

I think sci-fi futuristic is definitely the way to go, or at least conceptual nations, such as the EU, NATO, or East African Federation

 

[Siptah]

A bit disappointed with this, as I hoped for more science bonuses. But I guess it's ok ability-wise, because the first association most have with Prussia would be its military. Surprised that the Staatseisenbahn is an improvement and not a district that fits a railway station and another building but at least the railway is something special - for all the rightful criticism that the german railways get nowadays, the earlier decentralized states created what may be one of the best railroad networks in the world when it comes to density. I outright hate the Stuka. There would have been other possibilities without going into the German Empire. Hussar over Ulan smells funny, but I'm not well-versed in Germany's military history and maybe this name fits better. The city list is just lazy: there are more than enough cities in Prussia and the territories it held pre 1871, no need to add any other. Brandenburg Gate is fine in a way, but I've always found it disappointing in real life in the many times I've walked by and as a wonder. Its value is mostly symbolic (and much more so since 1990). For Prussia specifically, Sanssouci would have been nicer - and even the Reichstag would have been a better wonder.

In short: To me, it looks like they went with Prussia without real dedication that they are going for Prussia. It's the least appealing modern era civ for me, and I likely won't choose more than once.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The association of Hussar with Prussia is distinctly Frederickian. Hussars were light cavalry, not considered capable of performing anything useful on the battlefield, until Frederick in his reform of the Prussian cavalry after 1740 required them to be able to charge in a solid mass for at least 1000 meters ending in a full-blown dead run. That made the Prussian Hussars the equal in shock effect to everybody else's heavy cuirassiers. Of course, in the next 50 years everybody had to become just as capable, but Prussia was there first.

It also doesn't hurt that the 'death's head' (Totenkopf) emblem used by a regiment of the Prussian Hussars first became famous and is featured prominently on the Prussian Hussar figures in the game. My only quibble there is that every single Hussar regiment originally had a different set of colors to their uniforms, so that each Hussar unit should really have a diffeerent color of pelisse, jacket, saddlecloth, etc. They used various shades of blue, but also red, yellow, white, black, green. That would be striking graphically, but also probably confuse the H**l out of gamers trying to tell who belonged to which unit.

Finally, the Prussian Hussars Never used pistols: they were to charge home with sabers, the pistol was absolutely forbidden in mounted combat after 1740 by Frederick.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

https://civilization.2k.com/civ-vii/game-guide/civilizations/prussia/​

Prussia - Modern Age Civilization​

Relentless in modernization, rationality, and conquest, Prussia brought Germany under its reign. Externally, Prussia waged war against nearly all of the major European powers of the day. Internally, it was an industrial powerhouse, with rail lines stitching together coal mines and steel refineries. By 1866, Prussia had encompassed most of present-day Germany and part of Poland, leading to its transformation from kingdom to empire.

Unique Ability​

Blood and Iron: Units receive increased Combat Strength for every Unfriendly or worse Relationship with other civilizations.

Attributes​

• Militaristic
• Diplomatic

Civic Trees​

Ruhr

• Tier 1: All Buildings gain a Production adjacency for Navigable Rivers.
• Tier 2: Increased Science on Resources. Unlocks the 'Coking' Tradition.
• Tradition - Coking: Increased Production in Cities for every Resource assigned to them.

Zollverein

• Tier 1: You may establish and keep Trade Routes with Cities you are at War with. Increased Settlement Limit.
• Tier 2: Increased Trade Yield in Cities connected with a Staatseisenbahn Unique Improvement. Unlock the 'Mediatization' Tradition.
• Tradition - Mediatization: Increased Production in all Cities while at War.

Ems Dispatch

• Tier 1: Increased Relationship change from Diplomatic Actions. Unlocks the 'Realpolitik' Tradition and the Brandenburg Gate Wonder.
• Tradition - Realpolitik: Increased Combat Strength against Land Units.

Bewegungskrieg

• Tier 1: Cavalry Units gain the Skirmish keyword, granting increased Flanking bonuses. Unlocks the 'Iron Cross' Tradition.
• Tradition - Iron Cross: Increased Combat Strength per Commander Unit with a Commendation.

Unique Infrastructure​

Staatseisenbahn: Unique Improvement. Railroad replacement. Automatically placed via normal Railroad rules when a Rail Station Building is constructed in two connected Cities. Increased Gold and Production on Rural tiles with a Staatseisenbahn Unique Improvement in your territory.

Unique Civilian Unit​

• None

Unique Military Units​

Hussar: Unique Cavalry Unit; does not replace other Cavalry Units. Has increased Movement, along with increased Combat Strength for every Movement it has remaining.



Stuka: Unique Attack Aircraft Unit. Has increased Combat Strength against Land Units.

Associated Wonder​

Brandenburg Gate: Production Base. This Settlement suffers no Happiness penalty from War Weariness. Increased Happiness in conquered Settlements. Must be built adjacent to a District.

Starting Bias​

• Niter

The Third Modern War civ. (After Russia and Meiji Japan), one sans UC. and Hussars is 'Light' cavalry coexisted with regular choices. While 'Light' Cavalry line is no longer a generic choice. it doesn't seems to die off easily.

Prussia is NOT a sole user! (In civ6, Hussars are Hungarian UU), France, Russia, Austria, Spain, and even the United States of America also used Hussars.
The actual name can be Deathshead Hussars with Deathshead icon (really the same icon that denotes Pirates of any kind, including Space Pirates).

Animation constrains or what? Hussars shown here uses horse pistols rather than sabers (which are their signature weapons)

And Prussians shown here is Napoleonics rather than 'Golden Age' Enlightenment Era Prussians. and did Firaxis being abit too lazy or did they subject time constrains? so footsloggers wore Hussars tunics (which also akin to Napoleonics British Redcoats). nah! Napoleonic Prussian Linear Infantry are much simpler. and no butterflies like British Redcoats. What shown here is actually US Army Infantry of 1812! (Mod Potential if you will. to remodel USA with 1812 look).

And this 'Unique Commander' (which no longer existed) carries Polish flag. and wears Napoleonic era uniforms--Field Commander wears bicorn, and a standard bearer flies Flag of Poland and not flared out cross flag of Prussia.

Prussian Infantry of the Napoleonic Wars : Uniforms : Organization : Weapons : Tactics

Prussian infantry of the napoleonic wars: uniforms, organization, weapons and tactics. Prussian grenadiers, jagers, schutzen, and fusiliers.

napoleonistyka.atspace.com

I don't mind 'all black' uniform. but tinting layers have to be assigned to keep Black or Prussian Blue tunic.

I can't remember if Normal Chevaler did replace generic cavalry for the whole Age? or also 'light' variants?

^ Classic Prussian Linear Infantry of Seven Years War.

^ Prussian Line Infantry before Jena.

^ Prussian Infantry at Waterloo.

^ US Army Line Infantry uniform of the war of 1812. basically a clone of British Redcoats. before simplified mid war with butterflies removed.

Notice that in the same 'Prussian Army' picture there's a 'galleon' (latin rigged mizzenmast rather than Schooner rigged, that's characteristics of galleon that's slightly changed.). it is possible that it might be either Frigate or Ships of the Line (it didn't look imposing though, SoTL must be imposinly big and also required to carry more guns for Line of Battle roles.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

The association of Hussar with Prussia is distinctly Frederickian. Hussars were light cavalry, not considered capable of performing anything useful on the battlefield, until Frederick in his reform of the Prussian cavalry after 1740 required them to be able to charge in a solid mass for at least 1000 meters ending in a full-blown dead run. That made the Prussian Hussars the equal in shock effect to everybody else's heavy cuirassiers. Of course, in the next 50 years everybody had to become just as capable, but Prussia waas there first.

It also doesn't hurt that the 'death's head' (Totenkopf) emblem used by a regiment of the Prussian Hussars first became famous and is featured prominently on the Prussian Hussar figures in the game. My only quibble there is that every single Hussar regiment originally had a different set of colors to their uniforms, so that each Hussar unit should really have a diffeerent color of pelisse, jacket, saddlecloth, etc. They used various shades of blue, but also red, yellow, white, black, green. That would be striking graphically, but also probably confuse the H**l out of gamers trying to tell who belonged to which unit.

Finally, the Prussian Hussars Never used pistols: they were to charge home with sabers, the pistol as absolutely forbidden in mounted combat after 1740 by Frederick.

Animation constrains I think. it should be reanimated with sabers.
Same with Cuirassiers that used too much pistols. Cuirassiers (or more correctly 'Line Cavalry' which can be presented as armorless) do chargings with swords on hand.

 

[j51]

Feel free to mod them out and replace them with mine:

View attachment 717179

I’m totally gonna do that at some point! Thanks!

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

https://civilization.2k.com/civ-vii/game-guide/civilizations/prussia/​

Prussia - Modern Age Civilization​

Relentless in modernization, rationality, and conquest, Prussia brought Germany under its reign. Externally, Prussia waged war against nearly all of the major European powers of the day. Internally, it was an industrial powerhouse, with rail lines stitching together coal mines and steel refineries. By 1866, Prussia had encompassed most of present-day Germany and part of Poland, leading to its transformation from kingdom to empire.

Tell me about gates shown astriding railways please. is it default structure or 'Modern Age Defensive Fortifications'?. these towered gates appear blocking rail lines and no systems of detached forts (strings of casemates) built around any settlements.
The gates don't look really tough to me

 

[Archanist]

I like the design I don't really like the Stuka choice for UU though. I once heard that the Spitfire was to the Stuka, like the Panzer was to the Sherman tank, completely outclassed it. Japan already has an aircraft UU and if airforce was not historically Germanys strength why make that their focus? Would have much preferred the Tiger tank for the land warfare emphasis and the sheer intimidation factor.

The Spitfire and Stuka had different roles. The Spitfire is a fighter while the Stuka is a dive bomber/ground attack aircraft. And while you can argue that Germany's strength was more in land warfare, the Stuka itself was used to allow that in great effect especially early in the war, and it had its intimidation factor of its own with its siren.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

The Spitfire and Stuka had different roles. The Spitfire is a fighter while the Stuka is a dive bomber/ground attack aircraft. And while you can argue that Germany's strength was more in land warfare, the Stuka itself was used to allow that in great effect especially early in the war, and it had its intimidation factor of its own with its siren.

Basically Stuka is one of German Triads of the Blitzkrieg. the ther two are artillery and shock attack units (tanks with mobile infantry support).