pre-release info New Civ Game Guide: Qing

[gdr_willter]

If Qing Army Uniforms before Beiyang Army were not of these designs then what? Googling doesn't seems to provide correct answer.
So the entirety of Qing Army still wear studded Brigandines when they go to war even as late as 1850 or in the war against Japan?

You can't find something you want like the exact and documented rule of "Uniform" because they didn't have "Uni"-form. Every army clothes before modern industrialization were handmade, not by the centralized supply but by each craftsman or even soldier himself. It was mostly done by assigned craftsmen when the dynasty was strong, but it becomes more shoddy during the weakening of the empire.

You can find just parts of the various clothes which was really used, such as:

Art of the Eight Banners(八旗, bāqí, jakūn gūsa) of the reign of Qianlong Emperor (1735~1799).

Art of the Green Standard Army(綠營, Lǜyíng) of early 19c.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

^ And these also shown Qing soldiers without any armor as well.some even wears simple coats.

 

[gdr_willter]

^ And these also shown Qing soldiers without any armor as well.some even wears simple coats.

Your communication is always "I'm saying, not you" way, dude. I've seen your long obsession about meaningless collar before in another thread, that's not how historical approach works.

You said "This should better be what Qing army wears", but it's not a proper statement when Qing's UU is Gusa instead of Green Standard Army. You can search two different troops from even English Wikipedia, and both are very different organizations.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Your communication is always "I'm saying, not you" way, dude. I've seen your long obsession about meaningless collar before in another thread, that's not how historical approach works.

You said "This should better be what Qing army wears", but it's not a proper statement when Qing's UU is Gusa instead of Green Standard Army. You can search two different troops from even English Wikipedia, and both are very different organizations.

But 'Gusa' means 'Bannermen'.

Qing Uniques! EDIT: Thanks to @8housesofelixir for some additional information/corrections!

Gusa	Military	ᡤᡡᠰᠠ (Manchu, gūsa)	A Banner (see Banner Army)

 

[gdr_willter]

But 'Gusa' means 'Bannermen'.

It's not just "all soldiers with random banner", it means "Elite army troops who organized by the eight unique banner".

I'm so sorry but just google it once.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

It's not just "all soldiers with random banner", it means "Elite army troops who organized by the eight unique banner".

I'm so sorry but just google it once.

Didn't 'Green Standard Army' organized as part of Eight Banners Army systems? (which it is Qing Standing Army. there were 'Braves' (勇) which were Militias and mobilized only for a campaign. supervised by provincial governors (or Biprovincial governors as in Qianglong era unitl mid - 1850s).

Bannermen being elites? not sure but 'Elite' in Asian sense so often means 'Standing Army' (similiar to Ottoman Janissary systems.) and not 'Elite Guards' that consisted of a hand picked men trained as personal bodyguard of leaders and their families. (In this case, French Imperial Guard, which also a french UU since Civ6 and even here in Civ7, not a good choice.)

But saying that i'm against Gusa? no. I agree with FXis choice, except that Bannermen wearing brigandines even as late as Taiping Rebellion and even as late as Jiawu War are what... i'm not really sure if FXis is right. so many portraits show Qing bannermen footsoldiers without armor. but not without 'uniformity'. but i'm not sure if this was more of artist expressions, such as the use of chinese logogram writings in the circle to identify what is what or who is whom. Yes I also saw this in TV Dramas. (90s)

This one is Qing VS Galdan Khanate. right before Modern Age is nominally started. This shown Qing Bannermen as combined arms units, quite a Pike and Shotte arrangement.

One thing that bugs me. is the vests wore by Qing 'yellowshirt' Cannonneers also a kind of armor (with leather core) or simple vests?

 

[gdr_willter]

Didn't 'Green Standard Army' organized as part of Eight Banners Army systems? (which it is Qing Standing Army. there were 'Braves' (勇) which were Militias and mobilized only for a campaign. supervised by provincial governors (or Biprovincial governors as in Qianglong era unitl mid - 1850s).

They didn't. GSA was the local defense force formed from Han soldiers while BA was the central Manchurian force. This kind of separation of central army and local army was very general structure in East Asia even without the issue of distinguishable ethnics. You can find similar system from Ming, Joseon, and so on.

BA served so long time and many wars, but they collapsed from inside. They became more than just army, they were the privileged class in the later Qing society. Bannermen slowly lost their combat strength and this result became clearly visible when they totally failed to repress the Taiping Rebellion(1850). And GSA also corrupted to lose their function at the same time. This led the near extinction of Qing military at the 19c.

Your reference mainly based on this period, so those Qing soldiers in the most events of later 19c weren't some of the regular armies. They were mercenary or militia.