New Version - 2.7.3 (October 7, 2022)

[Stalker0]

Though this game isn't finished, I wanted to show this to compliment the AI currently.

Spoiler :

This is a really good example of the "hyenas attacking the lion". I have been the clear runaway this game, I am dominant in techs, I have every single freedom tenant (yes everyone), and I am one influential civ away from the win. In a normal circumstnace, this ending would be a snore fest of clicking the end turn.

But this AI IS RELENTLESS. Every civ hates me, and none of them will let up. they peace out, 10 turns later they are back at it. And I have to peace with them, its just too much. Brazil keeps infringing on my capital, Venice snipes at the sides and brings naval pressure that starves out my cities, and Ethiopia keeps bringing troops from across the city to mess with me. I have been trying to send a great musician to ethiopia for over 100 turns now just to get a concert in with them (as they are my last holdout), but I have always been at war with either ethiopia themselves, or with Venice whose basically a gate keeper.

I am a full military era ahead of them, and I am killing units left and right. But it doesn't matter if you kill 10 units for every 1 you have when the enemy has 50x your troop counts all combined. I am desperate for rest and healing, with no gold to rebuy units. My great mistake was in early industrial I think I had a chance to finish off Venice. I was way ahead in tech, and I had the forces to finish them, but of course the rest of the world was on me, and Venice had become kind of a quagmire, so I peaced for a lot of gold to focus my forces on everyone else. But that's just left venice as a permanent thorn in my side, and I may pay the price, we will see.

This is on EMPEROR btw, even on immortal I would be impressed, but the new strategic and tactical AI is really hammering me. I may actually lose this game, we will see.

 

[Stalker0]

And the conclusion.... DEFEAT on Turn 411

Spoiler :

Emperor Standard Communitas_79. I had a small reprieve from my last note above. The AIs finally peaced with me just for a little bit, and I actually had a rare chace to repair my defenses, get all of my GPTIs back in order, and resupply. Hope and optimism surged. And then.....was crushed.

All of the warring the AI had done to me had slowed me down, and allowed them to start catching up in tech. They nuked my capital, which blew up one of my key defensive lines (southeast of the capital above Brasilia), and blitzed through it like butter. with aircraft online, the AI didn't care for my paltry interception force of 2 fighters with interceptor IV and a few mobile sams. They just rained bombs from the sky, killing units indescrimantely. Once my defenses started to crumble they feel fast. I lost Baghdad within a few turns of venice declaring, Kufah next to Greece, and then the drumbeat of war came to my capitals doorstep. A Tradition capital with a military base is mighty, but ultimately cannot stand against such unrelenting hate.

I don't know if the devs have coded the AI to now target the human, but I was targetted all game. All war all the time, and every WC proposal was either a SOL or something to hit me. Cold War, Sanctions, they stripped my world religion and instituted travel ban, and knocked down every proposal I put out (enough though for a long time I had a very significant portion of the votes). They decolonized me 3 times as well.

On the science side, right before I got blitzed I checked science (on Turn 399). I had over 200 turns worth of research left to go to fill the tree. Now I will get a few more GS, though not many, as I had gotten SO many this game that my needed GS numbers were insane (3650 GPP for the next GS). I had faith bought so many GS my next one would cost 55,000 faith! Cern might knock out 2 techs or 50-60 turns, but there was a high risk that this game would end by the 500 turn timer rather than endgame....assuming I hadn't just died of course. I don't mind a slightly slower game but this is clearly too slow, and I think one of the factors is....when you extend the game a bit suddenly that surge of GS you get in the end game that tends to launch you through the end turns dries up...and once you are forced to get research based on your own right those endgame techs take a LOOOONG time. aka a little extension is worth quite a lot if you get it past the GS surge threshold.


And how did I do on tourism? Though I had every freedom tenent slot filled, and was 1 away from completing imperalism (aka my 2nd industrial tree), I just couldn't stop the might of Ethiopia with my tourism:

Spoiler :

Ultimately the travel ban really hurt me, and I am convinced that the International Games +50% tourism is not working, which was a major major hit to me (I allowed travel ban to pass in order to get international games through). while I had concert tours at 100% for about 40 turns with ethiopia (due to an incredible stealth mission where I sneaked 2 GMusicians past Venice's screen to get the tours), ultimatly once that ran out there was no way I could overtake them. I had quite gotten to internet which would have helped, but I did feel the CV changes in this game.

 

[CppMaster]

I don't know if the devs have coded the AI to now target the human

I hope not. Maybe they just target you, because you were winning. It'd be a little gamey, but I understand that.

 

[nekokon]

Maybe there's some bug within the strategic AI, as I have never gotten the whole world ganging up on me on peaceful game before (mostly just direct competitors), and they even removed your world religion (which is also their main religion as shown in the screenshot, which is really weird).

 

[youngsteve]

I note it was all the peaceful nations like Venice, Brazil, Korea & Ethiopia that were leading the fight. Impressive. Imagine if it was all the war like ones.

 

[cidk2000]

the AI are a bit like Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde, One game they can be exactly like Stalker0 game ive had one of 3 games where the AI is Extremly Aggressive and getting smashed, then other games they are so passive and weak, on previous patches going back months/years carpets of unit AI would go nuts

 

[Revolutionist_8]

Thanks for sharing this @Stalker0

 

[CppMaster]

I confirm AI aggression, nice to see!

Does anyone know why can't I do a trade mission with GM to get gold? Bug?

 

[Stalker0]

I confirm AI aggression, nice to see!

Does anyone know why can't I do a trade mission with GM to get gold? Bug?
View attachment 641289

bug, fixed in the latest hotfix

 

[saamohod]

fixed in the latest hotfix

You mean fixed in 2.7.3?

 

[John.B.C]

Whom has created those 'tips'? Wow, that's so cool and useful! Really good for new players to have. Well done!

 

[CppMaster]

Possible exploit: Every time you build Oxford University you get a free Great Scientist. When you lose a city with Oxford University you can build in again to get another Great Scientist. Is that intended? In theory you could settle a city, buy invest and produce every building needed for Oxford University, send TR with production to speed up the process and get free Great Scientist every couple of turns.

 

[Slyceth]

I don't know if it's a bug, but it seems impossible to receive a city in a peace treaty, it always shows as -1 for me. Also, some units seem extremely overpowered for their era, like the Dutch Sea Beggar, it took 14 crossbow shots to take it down, and even when I had cannons it took 6.

And I don't know if this is a bug, but after ending a declaration of friendship, giving me a 10 turn cooldown to not declare war preferrably, that civ will still challenge me for having troops near the border, and I can't say yes to that without breaking that friendship oath. The same with other civs requesting help declaring war, and I would love to join them but even if I pick the 10 turn to prepare option, that civ requesting me for help will denounce me because after 10 turns anyway I'm still 1 turn short of a promise not to declare war.. So much for "let's declare war together"

And the last one is that it's impossible to assist an ally with war while sanctioned. The world congress decided to sanction me, about 5 civs were at war with me at the time, but I had 1 ally, England, and because I was sanctioned I couldn't have open borders and defend England from their territory. That seems ludicrous to me, if I am already at war with the entire world, surely I can defy their orders and walk through my ally's territory? It seems the only way to do that is if England was my vassal but because they refuse to let me do that to them even though it's us 2 vs. the world, and once an enemy took their capital they happily join THEM as a vassal and fight me, their only friend.

 

[jaymrobinson]

Not anything scientific, but I'm having huge problems with unhappiness in the new patch. No warmongering, no rapid city expansion, and building most of the required buildings, but swung down to 28% happiness in Renaissance era. Have major dissidents all around the capital playing as Carthage.
Playing on Warlord difficulty. Out of 9 civs in the game, only 2 are above 50%.

 

[CrazyG]

On the science side, right before I got blitzed I checked science (on Turn 399). I had over 200 turns worth of research left to go to fill the tree. Now I will get a few more GS, though not many, as I had gotten SO many this game that my needed GS numbers were insane (3650 GPP for the next GS). I had faith bought so many GS my next one would cost 55,000 faith! Cern might knock out 2 techs or 50-60 turns, but there was a high risk that this game would end by the 500 turn timer rather than endgame....assuming I hadn't just died of course. I don't mind a slightly slower game but this is clearly too slow, and I think one of the factors is....when you extend the game a bit suddenly that surge of GS you get in the end game that tends to launch you through the end turns dries up...and once you are forced to get research based on your own right those endgame techs take a LOOOONG time. aka a little extension is worth quite a lot if you get it past the GS surge threshold.

Yea I think the extremely late techs need to be cheaper. One thing is each tech does very little so its reasonable to go through them a lot faster.

Any particular reason you went for science and not tourism?

 

[youngsteve]

If I had one criticism of this great mod in recent times, it is in the variation of achieving different victory conditions. For instance it seems common knowledge that the easy victory seemingly on all levels is a culture victory, with Domination & Diplomacy probably normal, with science hard, mainly because it takes so long to achieve it, & I never bother with it, as have found another way to win/lose by then. I remember vanilla CIV 5 being very similar in how you achieved victories, & certainly earlier versions of this mod were more equal, diplomacy used to be easier, but now culture is always the easy target, even on civs that you wouldn't always presume that would be suited to that type of win.

To gain science you have to virtually complete nearly all techs, diplomacy you need to pass the UN, then obtain enough votes, domination obtain all other vassals which can take a while on certain maps, whilst culture is just getting tourism domination over the other civs, & gaining so many policies/tenats, before building Citizen Earth Protocol. Although it has been tighened up in recent patches it is still the easiest victory. It would be nice if all victory types were similar to obtain, but not sure how to go about this. It does seem strange that at an end of a game before achieving culture victory you can be fighting the whole world, which doesn't actually sound very culturally benevolent towards each other.

I hope this doesn't sound like an attack on this mod, as it certainly isn't meant to be, as realy enjoy playing this, even after all these years, but just would like a bit of variation on how to win, on a similar timescale.

 

[Slyceth]

If I had one criticism of this great mod in recent times, it is in the variation of achieving different victory conditions. For instance it seems common knowledge that the easy victory seemingly on all levels is a culture victory, with Domination & Diplomacy probably normal, with science hard, mainly because it takes so long to achieve it, & I never bother with it, as have found another way to win/lose by then. I remember vanilla CIV 5 being very similar in how you achieved victories, & certainly earlier versions of this mod were more equal, diplomacy used to be easier, but now culture is always the easy target, even on civs that you wouldn't always presume that would be suited to that type of win.

To gain science you have to virtually complete nearly all techs, diplomacy you need to pass the UN, then obtain enough votes, domination obtain all other vassals which can take a while on certain maps, whilst culture is just getting tourism domination over the other civs, & gaining so many policies/tenats, before building Citizen Earth Protocol. Although it has been tighened up in recent patches it is still the easiest victory. It would be nice if all victory types were similar to obtain, but not sure how to go about this. It does seem strange that at an end of a game before achieving culture victory you can be fighting the whole world, which doesn't actually sound very culturally benevolent towards each other.

I hope this doesn't sound like an attack on this mod, as it certainly isn't meant to be, as realy enjoy playing this, even after all these years, but just would like a bit of variation on how to win, on a similar timescale.

Couldn't agree more. I seem to remember that in vanilla Civ 5, once you declare war on a civ that's winning with Culture and Tourism, that Tourism gain stops as soon as the borders are closed. So that means that as a player who wants to win with Tourism, you need to keep leverage on players not to be at war with you.

In this version, you only need to get a bit ahead with science so you can construct tourism wonders, and as long as you don't get attacked (just keep your neighbors friendly) you win before you even reach the atomic era, which means the civs that will get ahead of you by having warred and conquered other civs don't get enough time to catch up, and that friendly neighbor calmly LETS you win the game by not realizing that losing is worse than betraying someone you have a +2000 relationship with.

 

[CppMaster]

that friendly neighbor calmly LETS you win the game by not realizing that losing is worse than betraying someone you have a +2000 relationship with.

Yeah, but on the other hand pursuing victory by any means would ruin an immersion. Some prefer the game as a simulation of civilization with realistic relations instead of a more complex chess.

 

[Slyceth]

Yeah, but on the other hand pursuing victory by any means would ruin an immersion. Some prefer the game as a simulation of civilization with realistic relations instead of a more complex chess.

Then I think you should have a seperate version for the realistic relations and one for the chess

You can't have both a dating simulator and a high profile strategy war game with a set goal

 

[CppMaster]

Yep, you're right. But I doubt in a separate version so it's one way or the other. Neither is wrong. Currently we have a mix of both which is fine be me.