Non-Muslim Kills 12 At Navy Yard in DC, Nobody Seems To Notice

[woody60707]

...The real question here being why a civilian can just walk past the security of a military installation carrying a shotgun.

Oh I know this one. When my friends visited me on Camp Pendleton they were really surprised at how easy it was to get on base. For just any joe off the street to get on a military base, you just fill out a visitors pass form. They normally don't search your car or person on entry. My friends were expecting something like fort to fight off the Russians. Now there are secure areas on base where there are Marines holding Shotguns and M-16s make sure you shall not pass. But for the most part, it's an open area.

So yea, if you have a DOD ID card and car decal, won't even get a look going on base.

Given that certain Republicans are quite happy to point out that Iraq is much safer then America and that the US should continue to provide more and more arms to the middle east. Perhaps its time to stop making stupid arguments and political shows. Have a real discussion on violent crime ?

I'm not sure what point you are making. My point was no one cares about gun crime in Chicago because the "people" that are most effected by gun crime in Chicago, there is no political points to be had. And everyone in the Chicago "machine" is happy with the status quote. But in these mass shootings, there is political points to be had.

 

[Goodfella]

OP is idiotic at best.

 

[Formaldehyde]

If you have an ID card and a car decal, what would you expect them to do? Search every person and their car?

 

[carmen510]

Then I take it you don't read a newspaper, watch the news, or even check some internet news sites?

Well, I do check al-Jazeera, BBC (like I said, or did you miss that?), and France 24. Also receive the Economist every week. I don't have a television currently, so it's kind of hard to watch the TV news (not like there's much worth watching, other than PBS, European Journal, and the BBC [on non-cable]).

I'm unwilling to pay for a newspaper delivery to campus and my dorm is located far away enough from the stores that sell newspapers for me to actively seek them out.

 

[FriendlyFire]

I'm not sure what point you are making. My point was no one cares about gun crime in Chicago because the "people" that are most effected by gun crime in Chicago, there is no political points to be had. And everyone in the Chicago "machine" is happy with the status quote. But in these mass shootings, there is political points to be had.

That's true.
Why not address the problem rather then using it as a political football ?

 

[Disgustipated]

Given that certain Republicans are quite happy to point out that Iraq is much safer then America and that the US should continue to provide more and more arms to the middle east. Perhaps its time to stop making stupid arguments and political shows. Have a real discussion on violent crime ?

And that's the point. Guns are mobile. Even if we had nation wide gun bans, they would flow in across the southern border. We are incapable of stopping anything from flowing across the Southern border apparently. Gun control will not work until you change the gun culture. The first step would be banning the use of guns in movies, video games, and tv shows. Extreme, yes. Against the 1st amendment? Probably. When most "kids" play with guns, and play violent video games, you can't disagree that guns are what every boy dreams of.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Do you think there would be a thread by now if he had been a Muslim?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=341249

The fort hood shooting thread was started before it was known he was Muslim. In fact the early theories in that thread was a recently discharged soldier was responsible....or THREE disgruntled soldiers???

And no thread (until yours) because we've already seen a gunman attack a military base or area, so the "hey, this isn't something we've seen before/seen in a while" attitude does not apply this time around.

 

[peter grimes]

And that's the point. Guns are mobile. Even if we had nation wide gun bans, they would flow in across the southern border. We are incapable of stopping anything from flowing across the Southern border apparently. Gun control will not work until you change the gun culture. The first step would be banning the use of guns in movies, video games, and tv shows. Extreme, yes. Against the 1st amendment? Probably. When most "kids" play with guns, and play violent video games, you can't disagree that guns are what every boy dreams of.

Of course you're right here - most of the weapons used by criminals in Mexico are produced in the US:

an ATF report on the guns recovered from 2007-11 that the agency had traced at the request of the Mexican government.

In 2011, Mexico asked the ATF to check the origin of 20,335 firearms. The agency determined that 14,504, or 71.3 percent, had been made in or legally imported to the U.S. before getting to Mexico.

Over the five years included in the report, ATF traced 99,691 firearms for Mexico. Of those, 68,161 came from the U.S., or 68.4 percent.

Source: http://www.politifact.com/virginia/...ran-says-70-percent-traced-firearms-mexican-/

As for the rest of your post, well, all we need to do is look at other countries and see how their weapons restrictions have succeeded (or not!) in reducing gun violence. If your premise that gun culture is the culprit and weapons possessions restrictions won't have any effect, then we should see higher rates of gun crimes correlating with more exposure to US-produced violent movies, video games, and TV shows. Lower rates of gun violence should correlate with lesser intrusion of US gun culture. How do you think it's going to turn out?

This is not difficult to do. If you really think that you're correct, please provide us with links

 

[Borachio]

Peter, you don't think there's any relation between the exposure of viewers to violent images and a gun culture? Don't they go hand in hand?

I'm not sure how one could untangle the intrusion of gun culture from weapons restrictions.

I guess, though, I'm just missing your point.

Do you mean that gun culture as portrayed through cinema is universal, so the only significant factor is weapons restrictions?

I suppose there might be some place on the planet that bans violence in the cinema yet doesn't have any weapons restrictions. I don't know where it is though.

 

[Tarquelne]

What a great tragedy it is?

The problem is that the people inclined to start such a thread all knew that, if they did so, it'd very quickly degenerate into yet another discussion of gun control with - and this is the really fun part - claims that gun control has nothing to do with gun-violence, politics has nothing to do with violence against political targets, etc. etc. So, in other words, a discussion about gun-control that's actually an argument about whether or not we should even be discussing gun control.

What none of the thread-starting set has realized is that getting a thread about shooting tragedies is simply a matter of starting a thread about gun control.

 

[Kennigit]

some people are just lazy and don't make threads

 

[peter grimes]

Peter, you don't think there's any relation between the exposure of viewers to violent images and a gun culture? Don't they go hand in hand?

I'm not sure how one could untangle the intrusion of gun culture from weapons restrictions.

I guess, though, I'm just missing your point.

Do you mean that gun culture as portrayed through cinema is universal, so the only significant factor is weapons restrictions?

I suppose there might be some place on the planet that bans violence in the cinema yet doesn't have any weapons restrictions. I don't know where it is though.

What I mean is that anti-gun restriction people place the blame of gun violence on "gun culture." So let's look at the rates of gun violence in places that readily import US gun culture in the form of movies, video games, and TV shows, but *also* have strong restrictions in place on access to guns. It's my hypothesis that those places will NOT have an equally high rate of gun violence as the US - even though they are getting the same gun culture as we have here.

I'm thinking of places like South Korea, Japan, China, Sub-saharan Africa, the Teutonic countries. These all have high penetration in terms of US movies and such, but not nearly as loose rules about firearms access. If "gun culture" is to blame as opposed to "gun rights", then surely we would expect to see higher rates of gun violence correlating with higher rates of US gun culture prevalence.

 

[Borachio]

I can't get my head round the idea.

How could there be as much gun violence if there aren't the guns available?

Perhaps you could come up with a rate of violence per gun?

And which countries restrict their exposure to violence in cinema?

 

[peter grimes]

How could there be as much gun violence if there aren't the guns available?

The NRA would like a word with you

 

[Murky]

Gun control laws are unlikely to pass and would mostly just lead to loosing good candidates that would support them because of the influence of the NRA and the like.

Given our "Nuts about guns" type of culture you need to go after the problem from another angle. Maye look more into detecting and acting on psychological warning signs sooner/better.

 

[Borachio]

You could clear guns from certain areas (like a whole city) without too much trouble couldn't you? Didn't they manage to do it in certain wild west towns? According to the documentaries featuring John Wayne and James Stewart that I've seen, anyway.

After all metal detectors do work don't they?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Hi! Um, schizophrenia?

People say it was a powerful factor.

 

[Murky]

You could clear guns from certain areas (like a whole city) without too much trouble couldn't you? Didn't they manage to do it in certain wild west towns? According to the documentaries featuring John Wayne and James Stewart that I've seen, anyway.

After all metal detectors do work don't they?

Things like that still require laws to pass. Any legistlators brave enough to do it would be immediately subject to NRA witch-hunts for lawmakers that "Wanna take ur gunz!"

 

[Bugfatty300]

You could clear guns from certain areas (like a whole city) without too much trouble couldn't you? Didn't they manage to do it in certain wild west towns?

No. They never even came close to doing that.

 

[Borachio]

Oh? I seem to remember you had to surrender your guns on entering a town and then they gave them back to you when you left.

It's why gun crime was so much lower in the Wild West than it was in urban areas at the same time.