None Shall Pass 3 [Game Thread]

Zack · Oct 27, 2015

Star Wars Mafia:

Team PM:

Spoiler :

You are the starting members of the Star Wars Mafia. Here is a QuickTopic you can use (don't share the link with anyone for any reason).

BSmith1068 - JANGO FETT

Spoiler Abilities :

Spoiler Cover Role :

Arakhor - LUKE SKYWALKER

Spoiler Abilities :

Spoiler Cover Role :

Jango Fett - BSmith1068:

Spoiler :

Godfather / leader role. Any member of the Star Wars Town without the Stubborn ability was recruitable, and this extended to the LOTR Town after LOTR Mafia's demise. They were limited to a total of two successful conversions, but mark/convert would pass down to the next senior member if the current holder died. BSmith being randomly lynched so early and Arakhor subsequently being blocked the next two nights were crippling and slowed down conversions to a crawl. Without those blocks SW Mafia might have been able to recover from BSmith's demise.

Possible ability claims would be bulletproof (or some variety of it) or conversion susceptibility scan.

The secret message ability was intended as a tool for the mafias to coordinate with each other (in order to counteract the towns' ability to cooperate), but it wasn't really used in any significant way.

Luke Skywalker - Arakhor:

Spoiler :

Tons of potential claims here with the available abilities, which ended up being overwhelming. This role's versatility was meant to include a bunch of options for how the mafia could play.

Visorslash was converted to the SW Mafia, but as his role remained basically the same, I'll post it with the town PMs.

Snerk · Oct 27, 2015

Zack said:
I'm likely done hosting games where the vast majority of players have a night action (as was the case here). It's problematic to balance and tedious to send out night results with the 30-second limit between PMs.

For what it's worth, games where everybody has active abilities are a lot more fun than games dominated by vanilla roles. I can certainly appreciate the tedium of hosting them, it is however so much more engaging to play and network when everybody sits on their own intel.

Zack · Oct 27, 2015

Lord of the Rings Mafia:

Team PM:

Spoiler :

You are the starting members of the Lord of the Rings Mafia. Here is a QuickTopic you can use (don't share the link with anyone for any reason).

robbiecon - ELROND

Spoiler Abilities :

Spoiler Cover Role :

Jarrema - LURTZ

Spoiler Abilities :

Spoiler Cover Role :

Elrond - robbiecon:

Spoiler :

Unlike the first game, the factions were mirror images of each other, which probably is a mistake in a game with networking.

robbiecon was inactive the first few phases, and I let Jarrema send an order for him n2. I don't know if this confused robbie (not realizing that he actually had carried out an action) or if he thought his scan immunity protected him from watchers (it didn't, since he wasn't the person being scanned), but the discrepancy cost him his life.

Lurtz - Jarrema:

Spoiler :

Jarrema was caught being in two places at the same time. I debated on how to handle situations such as this, and ultimately decided that trackers only detecting one ability while watchers could see both (i.e. tracker couldn't see who Jarrema killed, but a watcher looking at the victim would see Jarrema attack) was a fair compromise for being able to carry out two abilities at night.

For some reason, Jarrema decided to reveal his faction's setup as he was dying, which possibly hurt Star Wars Mafia indirectly.

Arakhor · Oct 27, 2015

Zack, how were either of the Mafia supposed to win a total victory? That requires you and at least three other faction members to survive whilst all other enemies are dead. Since we could only recruit two other members, that would mean we'd need to have fully recruited, without losing a single person, whilst also wiping out all other 26 players.

Unless you had some other win condition up your sleeve, I don't think it's unfair to say that such a situation would be so improbable as to be practically impossible.

Zack · Oct 27, 2015

Read it again.

You and at least two other members of the Lord of the Rings Mafia survive to the end of the game.

Zack · Oct 27, 2015

Total victory was supposed to be difficult anyways. That's what makes it total victory.

Zack · Oct 27, 2015

Star Wars Town:

Palpatine - choxorn:

Spoiler :

Wanted to emphasize that canonical alignment did not matter at all, and had no bearing on faction alignment in this game. Each town had four War Hawks, who were mostly comprised of "evil" characters. This distinction as a War Hawk ended up not really mattering here, but there was potential for a network (and infiltration), and their role was more clear in the original 36-person setup. The nature of their roles also discouraged some of the town's most powerful roles from networking (regardless of my warnings that canon alignment was meaningless, people still expressed shock that certain characters were town and it's easy to see why someone might be hesitant to say "Hi I'm Palpatine a powerful scanner").

choxorn's role here detected anyone who wasn't SW Town as an enemy.

Ki-Adi-Mundi - Internet Flea:

Spoiler :

Double A ended up being a doctor in all three NSP games, funnily enough, though he ended up requesting a replacement for this game. Should have included a stipulation that LOTR characters could not be protected.

Chewbacca - johnhughthom:

Spoiler :

VGL never posted in the thread, unfortunately. Strong roles were included to prevent the amount of kills spiraling out of control, and also because it's good to have town roles that people will find somewhat suspicious (see: MartinLuther's claim being instantly disregarded).

Count Dooku - Kennigit:

Spoiler :

One of the War Hawks was susceptible to conversion, which opened the possibility of them being infiltrated and could sow discord. Kennigit didn't find any SW War Hawks until n6, when the remaining three would have all found each other, but the game ended.

Darth Maul - landlubber:

Spoiler :

The vigilantes were intended as a way to eliminate members of the opposite town (while they could hunt mafia with the lynches). landlubber realized this early on and did a great job at culling LOTR Town numbers.

Admiral Ackbar - Legato Endless:

Spoiler :

Note that masons could still be recruited! Masonic pairs were decided mostly at random, and any canonical connection was tenuous at best. Ackbar and Leia were both important figures in the Rebellion, but they would never be a "natural" mason pair in a mafia game closely following the canon.

Padme Amidala - Pouter Pigeon:

Spoiler :

Watchers ended up being the most important town roles for once. As I mentioned earlier, the Ring was a simple tiebreaker, though its function was not made known to Pouter.

Boba Fett - remake20:

Spoiler :

Continuing the theme of the War Hawks being "suspicious" characters, one of them was the son of the godfather. SouthernKing never sent in any orders, which hurt the War Hawk coordination efforts.

C-3PO - Riedquat:

Spoiler :

I debated putting the second scan part in, but eventually relented because it's a significant investment for likely no gain, and it's useless against recruits.

(character limit)

Zack · Oct 27, 2015

Qui-Gon Jinn - Snerk:

Spoiler :

Trackers actually weren't that useful this game. Godfather was immune to scans, couldn't detect mafia kills. Potentially influenced by me getting pestered by trackers in several recent games.

Han Solo - spaceman98:

Spoiler :

spaceman's always a roleblocker.

Lando Calrissian - Visorslash:

Spoiler :

The only successful conversion of the game!

Kept trying to steal from godfathers, and was annoyed that I didn't let him steal any of their abilities. Mark/convert were nonsensical abilities for a townie and I didn't want to give the recruitment mechanics away.

Leia Organa - Xym:

Spoiler :

Zack · Oct 27, 2015

LOTR Town:

Gollum - Al Sipsclar:

Spoiler :

Arwen - Autolycus:

Spoiler :

Bilbo Baggins - azzaman333:

Spoiler :

Eowyn - classical_hero:

Spoiler :

Saruman - Cuthillius:

Spoiler :

Faramir - dcmort93:

Spoiler :

Sauron - JohannaK:

Spoiler :

Galadirel - KingMorgan:

Spoiler :

Aragorn - Lohrenswald:

Spoiler :

Zack · Oct 27, 2015

Treebeard - MartinLuther:

Spoiler :

Witch-King - Newyn:

Spoiler :

Fool of a Took - Sprig:

Spoiler :

Boromir - Takhisis:

Spoiler :

Zack · Oct 27, 2015

Cut Roles:

Star Wars Town

Bail Organa:

Spoiler :

In the first game, some people tried to infiltrate the other towns to varying degrees of success, and this was meant as a host-sanctioned way of doing so. Would have a nice side effect of inevitably fostering tension and distrust between the towns.

Kit Fisto:

Spoiler :

Ability isn't anything special, but there's a hidden element to this role. Fisto was extra-susceptible to conversion, and would instantly join the SW Mafia after being marked (and wouldn't count towards the number limit).

LOTR Town

Eomer:

Spoiler :

Counterpart to Bail Organa. Potential for one to recognize the other was the same role.

Legolas:

Spoiler :

A slightly different ability from Kit Fisto, but had the same hidden "ability".

Peacekeepers

Sam:

Spoiler :

The cut fifth faction. I wasn't sure how well it would have worked, and I was constantly tweaking it until the very end, but it would have thrown an interesting wrinkle into the game. They had to eliminate the mafias and the War Hawks in each town, meaning they can't fully work with the towns. Probably would have distracted the towns from the mafia, and would have exposed the War Hawks (potentially even feeding this information to the mafia). Focused on information-gathering and manipulation, having to rely on others to do the actual dirty work.

Yoda:

Spoiler :

Zack · Oct 27, 2015

Okay, that's it. Back to eviscerating the setup. :scared:

Arakhor · Oct 27, 2015

Maybe I'm biased, but a fifth faction would certainly have mixed things up. As it was, four of the six days were spent lynching mafia...

Visorslash · Oct 27, 2015

and I didn't want to give the recruitment mechanics away.

That's precisely why I targeted them!

Zack · Oct 27, 2015

Arakhor said:
Maybe I'm biased, but a fifth faction would certainly have mixed things up. As it was, four of the six days were spent lynching mafia...

Well I didn't want to cut roles either.

Visorslash · Oct 27, 2015

I'm likely done hosting games where the vast majority of players have a night action (as was the case here). It's problematic to balance and tedious to send out night results with the 30-second limit between PMs.

After hosting two games this year with a lot of night actions (Red Dwarf in particular had a lot of active night actions) I now understand. It takes a lot out of you.

Newyn · Oct 27, 2015

What I don't get is what's with the lynches are for mafia, vigs are for opposing town mentality?
I've always treated these sort of setup as your team against everyone else and as long as you're getting rid of someone that's not on your team, you're advancing your win con regardless of which phase it is.

Zack · Oct 27, 2015

Newyn said:
What I don't get is what's with the lynches are for mafia, vigs are for opposing town mentality?
I've always treated these sort of setup as your team against everyone else and as long as you're getting rid of someone that's not on your team, you're advancing your win con regardless of which phase it is.

You kind of have to put on a show of cooperation to find mafia in public to keep the peace, but the vig can take out the other town in secret without having to answer or apologize for it. At least vigging people in your own universe is incredibly risky, because there's a high chance of killing your own team, so it's probably best for the vig to focus on the opposite universe. The opposing town needs to be eliminated somehow, and the vigilante is the easiest way to do so.

Visorslash · Oct 27, 2015

Newyn said:
What I don't get is what's with the lynches are for mafia, vigs are for opposing town mentality?
I've always treated these sort of setup as your team against everyone else and as long as you're getting rid of someone that's not on your team, you're advancing your win con regardless of which phase it is.

Well, that's what I tried to parrot! :lol:

Zack · Oct 27, 2015

Visorslash said:
Well, that's what I tried to parrot!

And Visor was crucified for not towing the peace, love, and harmony line in public. Trying to lynch the opposite town made people suspect him and want to lynch/kill him in return, which is why I said that I think it works out better if you let the vig sort out the opposing town. And the doctor protects the vig, the roleblocker tries to neutralize the other vig, etc. landlubber's kills are a huge part of SW Town's success, and dcmort protecting SW people ultimately hurt LOTR in the long run.

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