[NOT IN DEVELOPMENT] DOC Community Mod Compilation

[TJDowling]

That's amazing to hear! I always wanted to use republic but found it to be lacking. It's now one of my favorite civics! I do feel like Monarchy and Elective could use some love, everything else either has a single amazing ability or two or three good ones, but these two have one good one, and three meh ones respectively. I'd like to add some new effects to their existing set, I'm not quite sure what.

I almost always go from Despotism > Monarchy > Democracy or State Party whenever I get the opportunity. I don't think I have ever picked Elective either. It's underwhelming.

 

[1SDANi]

I almost always go from Despotism > Monarchy > Democracy or State Party whenever I get the opportunity. I don't think I have ever picked Elective either. It's underwhelming.

Agreed.

Also Monarchy has such powerful ability yet it feels weird on it's own. It'd be nice to add something for flavor.

For Elective, some bonus when moving the capital maybe?

I don't know, that seems a bit weird. I mean it makes sense, but I'm not sure I want to give a bonus for building a Palace unless it's a one time thing. If it is a one time thing, then all that does is make it useful for one turn and then you switch off of it.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

As I already suggested elsewhere, I believe moving your capital should give you some sort of bonus like e.g. a one time free civics switch or a stability reset, or the other way around, changing civics should give you the option of changing your capital for free. I really want for example Japan and Russia to have some sort of tangible gameplay benefit for moving the capital from Kyouto to Edo and Moscow to Petrograd and back again respectively.

 

[Steb]

I don't know, that seems a bit weird. I mean it makes sense, but I'm not sure I want to give a bonus for building a Palace unless it's a one time thing. If it is a one time thing, then all that does is make it useful for one turn and then you switch off of it.

Well it could be something like extra happiness or commerce or something in former capitals. If the bonus is interesting enough, there'd be an incentive to move your palace to a few locations to spread the bonus. If you switch out of elective you lose the bonus.

I don't know if the game tracks former capitals though.

 

[Leoreth]

No, but if you want to you could represent that with some special building.

 

[1SDANi]

Historically, why did Japan and Russia move their capitals, and what were the effects?

 

[Lokki242]

Well in the case of Japan it was the attempts to consolidate power under different regimes. At first, the various shoguns kept the power in their area or with the Emperor, which made it easier for them to lose legitimacy or be separated. With the Early Modern period, the Tokugawa moved the capital and made it so that other daimyo had to travel to visit them, which changed the balance of power. It basically was a way of controlling internal power dynamics

 

[Leoreth]

It depends on your definition what Japan's capital was throughout most of its history. In early Japan, the capital was the seat of the Emperor, which moved around for a while after the Chinese model until it settled on Kyouto. The Emperor remained the de jure head of state during the Shogunate but all power was with the Shogun who was based in Edo/Toukyou. The different capital was a deliberate choice to have a visible separation from the Emperor and isolate him into a ceremonial role far away from the centre of power. After the Boshin War, the Shogunate was deposed and sovereignty restored to the Emperor, however by that point Toukyou had already solidified into the national capital and instead the Emperor moved into the city.

For Japan, St. Peterburg was deliberately built to orient Russia towards western culture and easier access to western trade, thought and technology. I'm speculating here now because I do not know very much about imperial Russian history but I can also imagine that Peter the Great wanted to strengthen his position as absolute monarch by shutting out traditional powerful interest groups (I could think of the Orthodox church) that are also based in Moscow. The French court relocated to Versailles for similar reasons. After the revolution, Moscow became the capital again because it was much easier to hold the country together after the revolution from its central location (for example all European Russian railroads meet in Moscow) and to establish the strongly centralist government envisioned by the communists.

Overall I think there are the following general trends about capital locations that could influence their role in the game:
- Many early governments without established or big enough bureaucracy would have moving capitals to the point of having no capital at all, with the leader basically being constantly on the road. This is not well represented in the game.
- Capitals tend to be in central locations to have good communications with all parts of the empire, and to be able to equally respond to threats on all borders (mostly represented in Civ4 through the distance related upkeep rules)
- Capitals tend to be located in economic centres (somewhat represented through capital based modifiers on some civics)
- Capitals are relocated for the purposes of internal politics (e.g. to physically isolate former power centres as in Japan's example)
- Capitals are relocated for defensive purposes (like China moving their capital south after the Khitan conquests, might have also played a role in the Moscow example)
- Capitals are relocated for diplomatic purposes (being close to other powers to improve relations and benefit culturally, economically or technologically)

 

[1SDANi]

Well in the case of Japan it was the attempts to consolidate power under different regimes. At first, the various shoguns kept the power in their area or with the Emperor, which made it easier for them to lose legitimacy or be separated. With the Early Modern period, the Tokugawa moved the capital and made it so that other daimyo had to travel to visit them, which changed the balance of power. It basically was a way of controlling internal power dynamics

Perhaps then civs could have a domestic stability bonus from a recently moved capital, and with Elective the bonus would be doubled. The bonus doesn't stack if you move multiple times.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Historically, why did Japan and Russia move their capitals, and what were the effects?

Peter originally moved the capital from Moscow to Petrograd because a) it was closer to the West, which he sought to emulate and maintain close contact with, and b) to assert his authority in the face of the nobles and priests who had a firm grip on Moscow. The capital was changed back again at the end of World War I and remained Moscow because it's far away from any frontlines.

As for Japan, IIRC in the eight century it changed from Nara to Kyoto because the imperial court wanted to get away from the Buddhist priest class which had grown too powerful. While Kyoto remained the seat of the emperor until the late 1800s, a parallel pseudo-government (the shogunate) evolved from the 12th century onward with its seat in a different city, first Kamakura, then after 1600 Edo/Tokyo. This shogunate slowly but steadily gained more and more power as the emperor lost his, until the emperor was only in charge de jure, while the real power lay with the shogun. With the Meiji Restauration in 1868 the shogunate was abolished and the emperor moved to Tokyo to make use of the already existing administrative infrastructure there.

All of these events can easily be translated into a one time stability boost upon completion of a Palace and/or free civics changes if we are talking game mechanics:

Moscow->Petrograd: Adoption of Centralism and Regulated Trade
Petrograd->Moscow: Adoption of State Party, Ideology, Totalitarianism, Central Planning etc.
Nara->Kyoto: Clergy->Monasticism (what followed this move was an attempt to get Buddhism to keep from interfering in government policy and focus purely on spiritual stuff)
Kyoto->Edo: If we count the Edo Shogunate (1600) as this Adoption of Isolationism and Caste System, if Meiji Restoration (1868) then Adoption of Colonialism/Nationhood/Conquest and Individualism and Constitution and maybe some other stuff.

The hardest thing to represent would be Peter's move away from Moscow because in the game the only tangible benefits would be a little bit more help in cultural pressure and maaaaaaaaybeeeeee a somewhat better capital for commerce which would benefit from Regulated Trade, which is probably never worth the now increased city maintenance costs along with the actual hammer cost for the Palace itself.

 

[soul-breathing]

Bug report

A crash when enter the next turn, play as Japan

 

[soul-breathing]

There is no Mughal in 1700ad scenerio, and the Dynamic name of England is "British Government in Exile", though its capital is London.

Korea and Japan are too easy to collapse, all destroyed before 1720ad

 

[1SDANi]

There is no Mughal in 1700ad scenerio, and the Dynamic name of England is "British Government in Exile", though its capital is London.

Korea and Japan are too easy to collapse, all destroyed before 1720ad

Mughal error noted, England fixes itself after a turn or two, not nearly as high a priority as the crash in the save you sent, will look at Korea and Japan

 

[Lokki242]

Hittite UHV 3 is still bugged, no other civs had iron and I simultaneously got the golden age for 2/3 UHVs while failing it.

EDIT: It's a display issue only, I kept playing and managed to win despite the display saying I had failed

 

[1SDANi]

Hittite UHV 3 is still bugged, no other civs had iron and I simultaneously got the golden age for 2/3 UHVs while failing it.

EDIT: It's a display issue only, I kept playing and managed to win despite the display saying I had failed

Good to know, I'll look into it. I could have sworn the display worked on my end. Very sorry for this series of inconveniences.

 

[Lokki242]

Good to know, I'll look into it. I could have sworn the display worked on my end. Very sorry for this series of inconveniences.

All good! I'm glad I completed at least. Will be retrying Assyria again soon as well

 

[Edmund Ironside]

Hey ISDAN,

I was wondering if you might have any idea what the cause of these errors I'm getting after adding a civ to CMC when I am trying to load the mod?

Assert Failed
File: .\.\CvGlobals.cpp
Line: 3354
Expression: strcmp(szType, "NONE")==0 || strcmp(szType, "")==0
Message: type FLAVOR_CIVICS not found

Assert Failed
File: .\.\CvArtFileMgr.cpp
Line: 174
Expression: false
Message: get##name##ArtInfo: ART_DEF_UNIT_CAMP was not found

File: .\.\CvArtFileMgr.cpp
Line: 174
Expression: false
Message: get##name##ArtInfo: ERROR was not found

Line 3354 is FAssertMsg(strcmp(szType, "NONE")==0 || strcmp(szType, "")==0, CvString::format("type %s not found", szType).c_str());
I have no idea why that one is playing up, as I have made no changes to it.

Line 174 points to ART_INFO_DEFN(Unit);

Thanks,

 

[1SDANi]

Hey ISDAN,

I was wondering if you might have any idea what the cause of these errors I'm getting after adding a civ to CMC when I am trying to load the mod?

Assert Failed
File: .\.\CvGlobals.cpp
Line: 3354
Expression: strcmp(szType, "NONE")==0 || strcmp(szType, "")==0
Message: type FLAVOR_CIVICS not found

Assert Failed
File: .\.\CvArtFileMgr.cpp
Line: 174
Expression: false
Message: get##name##ArtInfo: ART_DEF_UNIT_CAMP was not found

File: .\.\CvArtFileMgr.cpp
Line: 174
Expression: false
Message: get##name##ArtInfo: ERROR was not found

Line 3354 is FAssertMsg(strcmp(szType, "NONE")==0 || strcmp(szType, "")==0, CvString::format("type %s not found", szType).c_str());
I have no idea why that one is playing up, as I have made no changes to it.

Line 174 points to ART_INFO_DEFN(Unit);

Thanks,

Did you increment the number of civs in CvDefines.h and CvRhyes.h maybe?

 

[1SDANi]

HUGE NEW UPDATE

Merged Nigeria

Merged latest version of DOC, Merijn's Mods, and Steb's Mods

Slightly increased Aztec Core.

Buffed Redistribution: Added +50% Income from Trade Routes going through the Capital

Nerfed Republic: Removed +1 Food Per Specialist, Added +1 Commerce per Specialist


I am very sorry, but I have yet to be able to solve the crash reported by @soul-breathing

I won't be able to fix this until morning, but Nigeria and the Mongol ID are confused. Please do not update.

 

[Lokki242]

Tried Assyria again and it went... poorly. First two UHVs are fine and perfectly achievable, but the necessary focus on military to survive the Persian spawn makes feasibly getting UHV 3 nigh impossible for me. I'm usually just short two aqueducts, but still haha.