Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
You do not understand the power of the Dark Side ...
But ... Jolly I am not your father.
But ... Jolly I am not your father.
"Obamanomics" Obama's economc policies
- Thread starter Hygro
- Start date
That's fantasy land. They would be earning more. And since they average harder workers than Americans, a great many would do very well.
Mommy, is that you?
They also tend to give very good value for their buck, so they starve the government while boosting the economy.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
No, the jobs they do pays near minimum-wage. Your not really going to get much more than $15,000 to perhaps $20,000 per year working in a tortilla plant no matter how long they work. And at that income, you basically pay nothing.
By the ways, like other people have said, many of them have fake SS number they are working under so their taxes are already withheld from them. Since they can't file at the end of the year, they can't claim refunds so they may actually be paying more than the average joe.
While that's true, it fails to take into account what they could accomplish if they faced less restrictions.
People who get up the nerve to leave their home countries tend to be go-getters.
Merkinball
Deity
This sounds like a pretty good argument to get rid of the minimum wage. Although I tend to believe that the illegals should go and our welfare scum should be out there in those fields...ya know, being productive, and giving a boost to the economy.
Have we seen a real difference between McCain and Obama on illegal immigration issues?
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
Yeah, but that makes getting jobs harder our own citizens.
Besides what does this have to do as to why we should or should not increase taxes on the wealthy?
Merkinball
Deity
What does this have to do with anything?
Far as I can tell, after the fiasco of immigration reform last year, there's a tacit agreement to keep their mouths shut on the subject.
I can tell you they make a . .. .. .. . product in construction. Again I cant speak for the other trades, but from what I saw in construction, they took NO pride in their work. They did horrible work and a lot of what they did looked bad.
They just wanted the money to send back home. This was across companies too.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
Well, we gotta vote for one or the other though. Actually I'm voting for Chuck Norris, he has a solution for everything.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
NOOOO!!!!!!! D:
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
I agree. Greed is the problem.
It's exploitation because there are no minimum wage laws in many of these nations, and if there are, they're astoundingly low, and that's the reason these nations have their overseas factories; because they don't have to pay someone a decent wage.
We're not all rich snobs Merk. Personally, I enjoy a hard day's work, getting my hands dirty and whatnot. I go home feeling acomplished, like I've earned my sleep that night. But I shouldn't be paid badly because I've chosen to do a dirty job. As they say, somebody's gotta do it, and just because you want to sit in an air conditioned office doesn't mean that those people who prop up our society shouldn't be paid similarly. Your apprecation for their hard work is noted.
The real question is, why do you feel entitled to damn those lesser Asians or Latinos to do it? Why are we "above" such things, because we're more educated? Beacuse we're lucky enough to live in America? Come on, Merk, step off the high horse.
Of course cheap crap is good, but only when its acheived without loss to the workers who make that cheap crap. Finding a cheaper way to make something, or more efficient way, that's excellent, we shoul strive for that; cutting costs by chopping at wages, or building a factory overseas where you can pay someone half as much to do the job is unethical. Fact is, when companies do that, you are reaping the benefit of their exploitation. Remember that when you buy that $7 shirt at JC Penny.
We can't all work in executive office buildings, Merk. Somebody's got to do the low-down, dirty work, running grocery stores, gas stations, ringing up your new sneakers, picking the pinot noirs for your wine, picking up the trash, just because they do the dirty work doesn't mean that they deserve any less than some big-shot corporate guy.
Truth hurts, doesn't it?
LMAO France is NOT a socialist nation. The Soviet Union was a socialist nation. East Germany was a socialist nation. Nicaragua in the 80s was a socialist nation. There are no socialist nations in Europe. Don't flatter them.
You don't think that thirty years of command economy had anything to do with that? Besides, I'm not a real fan of China anyway, achievements aside, and I don't know as much about their development as I do the Soviet Union's. Further inquiry into this subject I will admit will probably prove fruitless.
Merkinball
Deity
Greed is not the problem. Over regulation is the problem. And if anything, the greed is on the part of the high school drop out working the factory that an uneducated Asian person can do for five bucks a day. Who's really the one being greedy?
If they weren't paying a decent wage, then they wouldn't be able to hire people. Farmers leave the countryside of third world nations because they can make a decent buck in the city working for a western corporation doing menial labor in a factory. Not because they're losing anything. Your definition of a decent wage, and my definition of a decent, and a slum dwellers definition of a decent are two totally different things. So aren't our perceptions on reality.
LOL! Ironic. Ya know, since the thread has turned into an illegal immigration debate. Some people like to get their hands dirty. Which is why we have 30 million Americans who are chronically on welfare, and about double that who are stealing from the pot at various levels while we happily employ 12 million people to do the dirty jobs that "Americans won't do." Come on. You have much more substance than this vapid useless tripe.
You like to get your hands dirty huh? You like an honest days work? Well, back when I was 12, 13, 14, I made a minimum $10 an hour picking apples. By the time I left the orchard and was on decent apples I made between $15 an hour and upwards of $40 if I was on granny smiths or other large apples. Go pick apples Cheezy. You'll make good cash, and get your hands dirty and work an honest days labor.
People don't get paid poorly because they do dirty jobs. People get paid poorly because they have no skills and a f---king uneducated 15 year old Mexican can come up and do the same damn thing.
What's to appreciate? Seriously. Machines should be doing this crap. Instead of people working in nasty factories, we should be designing and maintaining high tech equipment and crap, while Asians construct it. There's no reason for people to pick cabbage. And if you don't like an office, then go be an underwater welder. Or work on oil platforms. Or becoming a mining engineer. Don't be a lump on society and think that you can drop out of high school, go pick cabbage in a field, and think you deserve an equal piece of the pie just because.
Why are we more above? Because we have more education. These people largely don't have education. I said in my last post that these sorts of jobs are critical to developing nations because it provides a steady income so that adults can send their children to school. That's why. In the end, I hope nobody has to do these jobs. I hope we have a very automated society where humans don't have to do this crap. But being realistic, these nations need these jobs. People in Djibouti would have loved for Nike to set up a sweatshop in that joint.
Come on Cheezy. You're a smart guy. You know this is bogus rhetoric. It's just full of flaws. My mom lost her "working" job and it was probably the best thing that ever happened to her, because she upgraded in a cushy office job and is making more money with better benefits now. What good is it to pay these people unwarranted sums of money simply to keep jobs here? What good does it do when third world nations will just undercut us in a global market? That is why this crap started taking place. We cannot compete with these nations PERIOD because of our "labor standards." It's really shocking that in the same post that you have gone from "putting us on a high horse because we shouldn't do jobs." To saying that these workers are deserving of high paying jobs. Higher paying jobs than anybody would ever pay a factory worker in the third world. Come on man.
What good is for our corporations to go under because they can't compete in a global market place? Because then who has jobs? Not a lot of Americans. But the Chinese will find that nitch anyway.
And what good is it to pay ******ed factory lemmings unwarranted sums of money when the rest of the society pays for it in a higher cost of goods? It makes no sense Cheezy.
Making people pay twice as much for a shirt because some high school drop out thinks they deserve $25 an hour is much more selfish, and much more unethical. Especially when that high school drop out could have become an engineer or a doctor with a little hard work.
They most certainly do deserve less than a corporate big-shot. Corporate Big shots are 1 in 500,000. Anybody can take out the mother f--king garbage. Which is why high school kids get paid minimum wage to take out the garbage. Because there's so many of them available. Running a grocery store is not down and dirty. Gas stations should have a manager on hand who can operate automated cash registers. Nobody should be checking out the shoes that people buy. It should be automated. All those cash registers should be helping us out with our critical nursing shortage, or helping us out with our engineering shortage so we can find the solution to our energy woes. We're never going to get to this point with people like you actually thinking that if you take the garbage out, you deserve as much in life as the doctor, or the engineer. Because nobody will want to put in the work to become a doctor or an engineer, and we'll all be busy in factories, toiling in fields, and taking the garbage out, while Asian nations are insourcing factories into our un-educated society.
No I don't. China didn't go anywhere in those thirty years. It went nowhere. As someone else mentioned, it went places and TOOK OFF when it freed its economy.
I can see a problem with setting up shop in a country without a proper environmental standards. Then you're outcompeteting their subsidence living (in the worst case) with a wage which doesn't factor in environmental damage.
Outside of that, if a factory pays more than they're earning normally, then it will (in the long run) benefit their society. It's not a nice thing that people are making very little money, but it's part of getting wealth rolling. There's a reason why so much of the world is predicted to be much richer in 50 years, and a lot of that is due to these horrible jobs kickstarting an economy.
Outside of that, if a factory pays more than they're earning normally, then it will (in the long run) benefit their society. It's not a nice thing that people are making very little money, but it's part of getting wealth rolling. There's a reason why so much of the world is predicted to be much richer in 50 years, and a lot of that is due to these horrible jobs kickstarting an economy.
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Everyone agrees with me sooner or later. Its the power of common sense.
Yep. Sometimes your prophesy is actually self-fulfilling.
