Patch update on the Firaxis livestream

[Doviello]

Geez, I'm standing right here, people...

Just kidding. Feedback noted.

We hurt you because we love you to make you stronger

 

[MadDjinn]

the BERT team has found yet another way to add tech gains to the game to make it go even faster.



Not that there isn't a long list of possible diplomacy related items that could have been in there, but maybe one day soon we'll see 100 turn or less large map (with multiple AIs) Apollo wins.

 

[Polycrates]

Surprise... patch is live!


Full patch notes >>> http://www.civilization.com/en/news/2015-10-spoils-of-war-beyond-earth-rising-tide

That's a very impressive change log, and very quick! Definitely on board with all of those changes, and the spoils of war change is huge. Really good job, guys.

However, I do want to second the comment that the BIG priority now is sorting out the trade routes, because they are deadset ridiculous and single-handedly throw the rest of the game's balance completely out of whack.

And if it's possible to pretty-please have a quick look at the UI bug with modded promotions/worker actions, that would be really grand!

 

[Haphaz]

Surprise... patch is live!

Alright, you win. I've been paid and I'll buy your expansion pack now. War score looks an intriguing incentive to do some Civ warmongering.

 

[ShaggyCan]

I wonder how long it will take them to release the SDK, so the real experts at fixing things can enter the fray. The Heroic Civ Modding community! Really it would save Firaxis a lot of trouble to just let the fans do it for them, especially since half the BE content was taken from them anyway.

 

[Cerilis]

Was the building-bug/feature fixed, that you could build buildings that require ressources in any city if at least one other city got that stuff or it was traded through trade routes?

 

[Furycrab]

- You can't actually trade stuff
- You can't make "real" agreements, only the game-y stuff
- You can't tell people to (not) do things
- You can't manipulate the global playing field
- You can't make gifts
- You can't ask for tribute
etc.

The problem I always had with many of these, you end up making trades a real player would basically never take. To take an example from another game, it makes no sense to me if the AI is actually trying to win the game, for say... Shaka who starts somewhere near you, to start taking ridiculously small bribes to go to war with possibly harder targets. Nor will a real player take a small bribe to slow down the runaway for you while you build a peaceful victory...

The same goes for Strategics and Luxury resources in CiV. Trading horses with an AI that will probably never use them, for gold you would use immediately.

At first it seems fun and interesting... except when you start playing at higher difficulties, you are literally not playing the same game anymore. On Deity, to keep up, it became a game of taking as many of these bonuses from your opponent to integrate them and snowball your own strategy.

It got to the point where a peaceful victory was significantly faster on Deity. Sure you needed to be that fast or you would just lose... but it also means your grand strategy involves things that are just impossible if you are playing against a real player.

Things like starting with 3-4 workers because you got them off city states that got them earlier on higher difficulties, or Civs that started with 2 or 3 of them and can't keep all of them safe. Getting 7 gpt per improved luxury (or more, or even lump cash if you got an ally). Beating an AI in a war and getting more GPT than you could ever do with all his cities combined? List goes on...

I don't expect single player games to ever "play" like a multiplayer game, but I think a lot of the system changes have been so at least it's not comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Ryika]

The problem I always had with many of these, you end up making trades a real player would basically never take. To take an example from another game, it makes no sense to me if the AI is actually trying to win the game, for say... Shaka who starts somewhere near you, to start taking ridiculously small bribes to go to war with possibly harder targets. Nor will a real player take a small bribe to slow down the runaway for you while you build a peaceful victory...

I see nothing wrong with that. You're not playing against Players, you're playing against characters, so it makes a lot of sense that they all have their characteristics that can be abused. I don't want Singleplayer to emulate Multiplayer, because if it tries to be that, then it will never be anything than the worse version of Multiplayer.

The great thing about Singleplayer-Diplomacy IS that you have opponents that are not "smart", that are not RATIONAL, but can instead be manipulated like you'd expect from exaggerated characters. That's one of the greatest feeling a 4x can deliver - when the whole world burns, not because of your blade, but because of your very word.

Now, obviously things like trading all your resources away to AIs that are more than willing to take them is silly, but that's something that can be fixed. I still think the current system - while it's a lot of fun - does not do a good job at replacing actual diplomacy. Both, the dealmaking/manipulating part of the old diplomacy, and the new system could perfectly go hand in hand and benefit each other.

 

[bite]

some interesting changes, will have test the patch out

 

[Lucius_]

I like the list of changes but a couple things seem missing. Like, can you still leash colossal aliens from the Lush marvel quest? I've heard that mentioned as a bug in the past, but doesn't seem mentioned here. Also, how about some balancing between the sponsors, :cough: polystralia?

 

[Olodune]

Nice changes, overall. Initial thoughts:

- The Progenitor wonder adjustments are a step in the right direction.

- I'll have to see how the increased AI expansion weight plays out. Could be good

- War spoils, hmm ... I'm not yet convinced. The balancing is crucial in making this reasonable. I hope it wasn't rushed

However, I do want to second the comment that the BIG priority now is sorting out the trade routes, because they are deadset ridiculous and single-handedly throw the rest of the game's balance completely out of whack.

Yes, please. Making a unified trade unit actually strengthens the current mechanic

Also an adjustment to the final peaceful victory timers would be welcome.

I suppose I should play to see this all in action.

 

[legalizefreedom]

Got what I believe was the patch an hour ago. 39 mb.

My2K not working though.

Verified. I got the Black Market.

 

[MadDjinn]

Got what I believe was the patch an hour ago. 39 mb.

My2K not working though.

it never works right away because the keep forgetting to update My2K to use the correct version.

 

[Westwall]

I see nothing wrong with that. You're not playing against Players, you're playing against characters, so it makes a lot of sense that they all have their characteristics that can be abused. I don't want Singleplayer to emulate Multiplayer, because if it tries to be that, then it will never be anything than the worse version of Multiplayer.

The great thing about Singleplayer-Diplomacy IS that you have opponents that are not "smart", that are not RATIONAL, but can instead be manipulated like you'd expect from exaggerated characters. That's one of the greatest feeling a 4x can deliver - when the whole world burns, not because of your blade, but because of your very word.

Now, obviously things like trading all your resources away to AIs that are more than willing to take them is silly, but that's something that can be fixed. I still think the current system - while it's a lot of fun - does not do a good job at replacing actual diplomacy. Both, the dealmaking/manipulating part of the old diplomacy, and the new system could perfectly go hand in hand and benefit each other.

Well said.

 

[GenyaArikado]

the BERT team has found yet another way to add tech gains to the game to make it go even faster.



Not that there isn't a long list of possible diplomacy related items that could have been in there, but maybe one day soon we'll see 100 turn or less large map (with multiple AIs) Apollo wins.

I see a lot of people here saying they win superfast, in less than 200
. I must be shittiest player because it always takes me over 300 with one exceptio at turn 269

 

[Acken]

Most of those changes looks good on paper. Please continue in this direction.

Don't like spoils including tech in a game already criticized for being too science centric and too fast.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

- War spoils, hmm ... I'm not yet convinced. The balancing is crucial in making this reasonable. I hope it wasn't rushed

Played about 110 turns with the patch and I got a chance to check out the new war spoils mechanic.

A couple things I noticed:
- the war score screen now tells you when the AI is not ready to consider peace terms (because you have not been fighting long enough) rather than the old system of the AI just saying "no" without telling you why.
- If the AI comes to you for peace and is losing the war, it is able to draft a peace term favorable to you based on the war spoils. I was winning 50-0 and the AI offered me some energy and diplo capital. It's nice to see peace terms that include energy and diplo capital.
- the war spoils screen works well IMO.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I don't know if this was a coincidence or a result of the patch but the game I just played had more diplomatic tension than in my previous RT games. ARC actually landed only 6 tiles away and of course got made for being so close to me which led to war. And the Slavic Federation was pretty far but they too did not have any respect for me and DoW me. So this game was very different from past RT games where I had lots of room to expand and the AI left me alone.

 

[leandrombraz]

I like the list of changes but a couple things seem missing. Like, can you still leash colossal aliens from the Lush marvel quest? I've heard that mentioned as a bug in the past, but doesn't seem mentioned here. Also, how about some balancing between the sponsors, :cough: polystralia?

Considering that before launch the producers themselves was leashing colossal aliens in the livestream using the lush marvel quest, I believe this is a feature, not a bug.

 

[omniclast]

Played about 110 turns with the patch and I got a chance to check out the new war spoils mechanic.

A couple things I noticed:
- the war score screen now tells you when the AI is not ready to consider peace terms (because you have not been fighting long enough) rather than the old system of the AI just saying "no" without telling you why.
- If the AI comes to you for peace and is losing the war, it is able to draft a peace term favorable to you based on the war spoils. I was winning 50-0 and the AI offered me some energy and diplo capital. It's nice to see peace terms that include energy and diplo capital.
- the war spoils screen works well IMO.

This is incorrect, all the screen says is "X is not entertaining peace terms at this time." It doesn't say whether that has to do with the length the war has progressed. While that may be one of the things preventing peace deals, I am pretty confident there are other reasons the AI won't accept peace, mainly since Chungsu just offered me peace terms I didn't like, then on my turn when I went back to him, he was once again "not entertaining peace offers."

So far my biggest issue with the War Spoils is that I haven't actually got to see the damn screen because none of the 4 AIs I've been at war with all game will actually "entertain" any offer. Ah endless war, why must you feel so familiar...

On another note - the "build any improvement on any tile" thing hasn't been fixed. So maybe that is not a bug after all.