Patriotism

[Yeeek]

Hello, forgive me if this subject has been discussed recently, if so feel free to lock it and point me where is the thread.


I'm sure everyone has different opinions on the matter.

Do i feel proud of my citizenship, country and its history? Of course i am. Who isn't proud of its roots! I don't see myself as a patriot though. Different culture i guess, laso i don't see French people and most europeans as patriot as an American or Canadian for exemple. Except the British perhaps?

Why that, i'm not sure. Do world politics interest me, of course. And i believe patriotism could blind your opinion.

Maybe i'm wrong. Here's an exemple, when i see on the news the new Airbus A380, i have that weird silly feeling of being proud of it even though.. i did not worked on it, do you get what i mean? Same feeling when your national team wins a game and you never watch another game rest of the year. So, if you are feeling proud about your country, does it make you patriot?

Or is patriotism only linked with war and military achievements and dying? Would i blindly die for my country? If my country is invaded i would want to protect my familly and relatives. But, would not agree to go to a distant country and get myself killed.

Military service, 18 months and i learned nothing but to kill someone. Camaradie and brotherhood, sorry but i don't need to be in the military to know such feeling. I would have prefered to serve in another way, like with the fireman or emergency medical service. Now i would have learned how to save someone. Alas i didn't get the option at the time.

I also feel the "Marseillaise" should be re-writed, does this make me a bad citizen for my country?

Your country's flag. How do you feel if your country's flag is at the window of your house or such. Does it make you feel proud somehow? Do you have to show everyone you are a patriot and why.

I just want to understand "patriotism" and always had a problem with it.

 

[Ultima Dragoon]

Well, patriotism can mean many different tings to different people.

Me for example, well, I feel patriotic when I see or hear about my sports teams/Australians ravaging everyone else in sport.

Other people may feel patriotic towards ideas, advances and the like that that their country have been the birthplace of.

Hello, forgive me if this subject has been discussed recently, if so feel free to lock it and point me where is the thread.

Don't worry about it; Once OT gets bored, we go back and do subjects again ad nauseum.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

I consider myself very patriotic. I consider myself to be from one of the greatest and most free nations the world has ever known. I feel very proud when I hear the national anthem, see my flag, etc. (Although I strongly question the patriotism of those who would make it illegal to burn the flag - to me the flag is a symbol of freedom, to burn it burns a symbol of freedom, to take away that right destroys freedom itself) I believe my nation has overall been a force for good in the world. (with some very serious blights on its record, though) I am most proud when our military is sent early on to help out in a disaster region (hurricanes, typhoons, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc.) Whatever idiot tried to purport the military isn't into nation building hasn't studied history. The military has been doing nation building since the nation was founded.

 

[silver 2039]

Yes I'm vaugely patriotic not willing to die or anything. Occasionally feel proud and gloat over the achievements. But I work for myself mostly. I want power for myself not and glory. I would like however to make the nation better.

 

[Verbose]

We're all from one of the greatest and most free nations the world has ever known...
...regardless of nation.

It's sort of ingrained in how all nations are presented to it's members. The ones that can't manage that selling point tend to collapse.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

I'm not proud.

 

[Yeeek]

My problem is i tend to believe patriotism leads to arrogance in most case, at least thats how i see it.

 

[ComradeDavo]

I'm not patriotic at all.

I put individuals above countries! As far as i'm concerned we are all human beings, and we should not segregate ourselves just because we were born on different areas of the earth.

As far as i'm concerened, i'd rather have no borders, but of course due to patriotitism this is not currently possiable.

Often patriotism becomes a case of believing you are better than others.

Although I strongly question the patriotism of those who would make it illegal to burn the flag - to me the flag is a symbol of freedom, to burn it burns a symbol of freedom, to take away that right destroys freedom itself)

Some, such as myself, would argue that the American flag has been hijacked by nationalists, that it no longer represents freedom but instead American 'power'. Burning it is a sign that you are disenchanted with the path the country has taken.

 

[ketalis]

The term patriotism seems to be fairly interchangeable to nationalism. To be honest I'm a strong opponent of both nationalism and religious fundamentalism, as I believe those are the second and third greatest barriers to world peace, the first being human greed of course. Patriotism? Bleh. Just a new face on an old trick: agitating the masses.

 

[Rambuchan]

I take exactly the same view as Verbose, ketalis and Davo on this subject. Nationalism and Patriotism are (or at least should be imo) destined to be dated concepts.

 

[Verbose]

My quarrel with the semantics of "patriotism" over "nationalism" is that the way these have traditionally been used in the US , "patriotism" is very positively charged, while "nationalism" is negative.
("We are patriots! (US, Good) They are nationalists! (Europe/wherever, Bad)")

Apart from the useage of the two terms, the actual difference between the stuff they are applied to often seem minimal, except that the users are positive to one but not the other.

Historically of course patriotism predates nationalism. Nationalism is part of the European 19th c. political project of building "nation states", most of them fairly novel entities.

Patriotism was already in use in Britian (defining themselves against the French), so the American colonists took it up.

It was also used in some of the old European monarchies, with a long historical continuity, like Denmark and Sweden, well before the 19th c. and all the hype about "nationalism".

 

[storealex]

Sure Im proud, but screw patriotism.

 

[fing0lfin]

I think that patriotism and nationalism are great things.
In time of difficulties, the patriotism and nationalism save the nation.

 

[Shaihulud]

Nationalism and racism are both sides of the same coin, I have never seen a patriot that isn't a racist for one. Of course, I also believe that every human is inherently racist, just a matter of degree, so my opinion should be discounted.

 

[storealex]

I think that patriotism and nationalism are great things.
In time of difficulties, the patriotism and nationalism save the nation.

But what if the nation is not in danger?

 

[fing0lfin]

If your nation is not in danger, the patriotism make you to build. To modernise your country, to do the best to improve it.

 

[Verbose]

I think that patriotism and nationalism are great things.
In time of difficulties, the patriotism and nationalism save the nation.

Sure they do, but the fundamental question of the critics of patriotism/nationalism tends to be if saving the nation is worth the trouble on balance?

These days we all come equipped with a nationality. That doesn't mean we are obliged to treat it as the foundation of our own persons.

I'm as susceptible to nationalism/patriotism in sports as the next guy. Heck, I even like to drag out snippets of obscure Swedish history in a place like CFC History (I take the international view among the Great Sweden crowd).

Having way too much of a formative academic background I can also, just as easily, being reasonably fleunt in 4-5 languages, decide to adopt a kind of Citizen of the World of Academia attitude.
Wherever I go in the world, I know that if I look up the local university crowd we'll turn out to have a bunch of stuff in common over which we can gel as a group.
I have no way of passing myself of as an actual Frenchman once I open my mouth. But having spent several periods of the last ten years studying and working there I do know on what level I can form a community with French academics.

Then again, should I go abroad and meet a bunch of Swedes, I might just as well become mr Super-Swede and collectively we will revel in our uninhibited Swedishness. And this with people I wouldn't bother with back in Sweden.

The problem with ideological nationalism is that it tends to demand allegience above and beyond all else. And the really unhealthy form of nationalism is the one where people start droning about the need to die for their country.

Historically groups like nobles, academics etc. represent problematic social groups simply because they tend to cultivate internationalist ideals, which means that their loyalty to the nation can always be questioned. By not adopting the "My nation, right or wrong" attitude they hedge their bets.

 

[Truronian]

I'm not patriotic at all.

I put individuals above countries! As far as i'm concerned we are all human beings, and we should not segregate ourselves just because we were born on different areas of the earth.

As far as i'm concerened, i'd rather have no borders, but of course due to patriotitism this is not currently possiable.

Often patriotism becomes a case of believing you are better than others.

Seconded. I've always found patriots/nationalists to be rather loathsome individuals (those I have met in the flesh; I reserve judgement on people I meet online as you tend to only see certain sides of a person). To me, pride in ones country suggests that a person doesn't have anything better to be proud of.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

I view myself as a citizen of the world and have no regard for my nation whatsoever. I think the nation is one of the worst concepts to have ever blighted this world. Too many people have died and killed for meaningless lines on a map.

 

[storealex]

If your nation is not in danger, the patriotism make you to build. To modernise your country, to do the best to improve it.

Then how come that the most nationalistic nations of Europe are often also the most backwards?