PH02: Eight Angry Men

[GreyFox]

The Mongol War

I mentioned that the Mongolian war is taking longer than expected ... why?

Because it is at size 1 with no culture. If we capture it, it will autoraze. And we don't have any settler ready to settle there. Its a good city site, so rather than losing it to Mao, I chose to wait for it to grow. I've positioned troops around all the workable tiles, so only choice the Mongolian has is to work on the cipastal tile. So, sooner or later, it will have to grow.

Meanwhile, Genghis thought that this inaction on my part is some signal that we have mercy on him ...

You are sadly mistaken, my dear!

Finally, in year 1604AD, the Mongolian city grows ....

We lose the first knight, but the maces clean up with no problem.

Mongolian no more.


A World in Turmoil

Just as we were about to complete the mongolian war, the war trumpet sounds!!!

Whew, not us, but Bismarck. Poor guy.

The Japnaese must be having trouble fighting Bismarck, and bring in the Chinese. Which gave me an idea: Perhaps when we are ready to take on Bismarck, we should first contact Mao or Toku, and see if they would offer us a tech to war with Bismarck.

It was Bismarck, who first invited us to join the war ...

Not right now buddy. Maybe later we would join the war .... against you!

One minor inicdent is I noticed a barb galley at the south:

I immediately switch build to a galley to protect our crabs. It turned out that th barb galley is pre-occupied with smething else, and is contended to stay at that very same tile througout the remaining turns of my turnset.



Trade and Diplomacy

I cancelled the gold tribute to Nappy when it was cancellable.

Monty came demanding us to convert to Hinduism ...

Just after we revolted to OR? No way!!!!!

I also negotiated a trade with Mao and JC:

giving us 12 more gold per turn.


>>> The Save (1610AD) <<<

Sugestion for next player is build a couple more units and move against Bismarck ... it will help our relationship with Mao and Toku ... plus the three of them are already having grenies running around. WE should atatck sooner rather than later, before Bismarck converts everything to grenies.

 

[Munterpipe]

Woah, great turns Fox. That nasty worker business is all me not paying attention. Also, I didn't notice that we lost those tiles around Hamburg to Otto allready. Jeez, with Otto at war with two others this really is the time to strike. Let's order up some catapults and take a couple of his nearby cities. Checking the save, Bismarck barely has any defence in his cities left. The only thing we lack to be able to roll over Otto is some more catapults.

There's one thing we need to worry about is Montys immense number of units coming from the north, so we should leave sufficient units in our northernmost cities. Apart from that, let the Greek army ride again!

Our generals have composed a warmap

 

[pholkhero]

Yeah, excellent turns, Fox (playing the Fault Finder in 8 Angry Men I'm just glad it wasn't me this time ) Personally (as you may gather from the Emperor's Council game), i like the info so...keep on, keepin' on Fault Finder Fox!

Lobster's up now i think, so perhaps focus on cats and improving our Mongolian holdings. Hopefully, you could set up Frank for a quick acquisition of Frankford, Cologne, and Dusseldorf. And then we can clean up Stuttgart at our leisure. We still heading for LIberlism, eh?

Frank > on deck
Pholk >
Fox > just played
Munter >
Lobster > UP NOW

 

[frankcor]

Liberalism makes a lot of sense. I'll be on it while I sweep the southern tier of the Germans.

Edit: er ... when it's my turn, that is.

 

[pholkhero]

Edit: er ... when it's my turn, that is.

With nothing from lobster, if you can play today frank, it's all yours.

 

[Lobsterboy]

Hi all. First chance I've had to log in all weekend. Unfortunately, I don't think that I can play tonight, so go ahead Frank. I'll pick it up after you.

 

[frankcor]

Sorry, I was up in another SG and took that turn instead. I can pick it up tonight if you haven't already by then, Lobsterboy. I'll check in to see this evening.

 

[Munterpipe]

That's why british SGs are always slow.
"After you, sir."
"Oh, After you, sir."
"No, I couldn't, after you, sir."

Guess it has spread to Rome, NY and downeast Maine as well

 

[Lobsterboy]

OK. I've got it and will play this evening. (My apologies to my European and SE Asian colleagues.)

 

[frankcor]

LOL, Munterpipe! Now I'm going to get me a spot of tea.

 

[Lobsterboy]

Inherited Turn (1610 AD)
Check to see if we can ask Mao for tech to declare war on Bismarck, but this option is not available.

I'm not sure why we are researching Education. Everyone but Napoleon already has Education, so I seriously doubt that we are going to be the first to Liberalism. Nevertheless, "stay the course"...

Toku is putting the pressure on Biz at Berlin, and Mao is building a good stack SE of Frankfurt. Already 4 Grenadiers there, and another stack of 5 Grennies are sighted in Napoleon's territory. I notice that Bismarck does have Musketmen and Grenadiers walking about.

I pull our CRIII Maceman out of Hamburg, and send him back to Athens. We can use him for our assault on Frankfurt, and the route is shorter from Athens.

Turn 340 (1610 AD)
Sparta finishes: Forge --> Catapult

Turn 341 (1613 AD)
Tiflis comes out of revolt
Tiflis begins: Courthouse
Thermopylae finishes: Knight --> Catapult
Corinth finishes: Work Boat --> Courthouse Why were we building a Workboat here? We can't work the Whales until we discover Optics!

Turn 342 (1616 AD)
Chuang-Tzu (Prophet) (Great Prophet) born in Athens

Of course, at the same time, Mao visits us with a request:



Since you're the big bully around here now, and we probably will go to war with Germany soon. OK. (I notice that Mao is now Taoist, and doesn't appreciate the fact that we are Buddhist. Our relationship is only +1.)
Of course, this would be the turn that we get our Great Prophet! I guess building the Buddhist Shrine will have to wait.


Turn 343 (1619 AD)
Another envoy arrives. It is our "friend" to the North, Monty, and he demands that we give him Horses. (screenshot missing).

What!?! You don't have Horses?? Sorry Charley...er... Monty. Our Phalanx are good vs. you Elephants, but we don't need any fast units of your swandering around our lands when you declare on us (and we know you will!).
Sparta finishes: Catapult --> Longbowman


Turn 344 (1622 AD)
Biz is in trouble at Berlin:




Turn 345 (1625 AD)
Harappan finishes: Forge --> War Elephant
Karakorum finishes: Forge --> Crossbowman

I remember to remove the Priests from Athens; switch 1 to an Engineer (National Epic goes from 6 to 5 turns.) Others are put back into city to speed growth and for a few extra coppers.

Looks like Berlin could fall, which would be good news for Hamburg!




[Lost track of a few turns here. Basically manuevering our stack and putting it in position to launch assault on Frankfurt. Athens also completed the National Epic.]


Turn 348 (1634 AD)
There are the sounds of trumpets, and we receive a few envoys:



Why doesn't this surprise me?

Next up:



Well, since Monty already cancelled our deals, your request is moot. Naturally, I agree. (Julius needs better intelligence!)

I put the assault on Frankfurt on hold.

Somehow, in the previous turns, Mao bungled his attack on Berlin, and Germany is no longer under siege. It would appear Biz has been able to pump out a few counterattackers:




Turn 350 (1640 AD)
Monty's stacks are in position to attack Thermopylae next turn. Here is what we face:



I used a Catapult in Thermo to soften up the War Elephant stack. Unfortunately, he was lost.
While attacking, Catapult loses to: Aztec War Elephant (5.60/8)

I think that we can survive the first wave, and with Thermo's industrial output, we should be able to fend off Monty.

The Musketman near Harappan is worrisome. There is also a Galley of Monty's floating around and Tiflis to the East only has a single Catapult for a defender.

I moved two Knights from our Franfurt attack stack to Thermopylae to bolster defenses there. Here is what we have left in our assault team:



I think it is just barely enough to take Frankfurt,(Biz will probably reinforce it), but I'll leave it up to Frank to open the two front war at his descretion.

No one is willing to join us against Monty, as we have nothing to offer.

Education is still a ways away - 10-14 turns? I don't even want to discuss our woeful economy!

Hamburg continues to revolt, and needs relief every chance it gets, and needs relief of the cultural pressure there.

Here's the save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/PH02_AD-1640.Civ4SavedGame

 

[frankcor]

What are people's thoughts here? Do we declare on Bismark now and take Frankfurt? After Toku's dismal performance in Berlin, Hamburg continues to be under huge cultural stress and I think taking Frankfurt will relieve that.

Or do we move the entire stack north and punish Montezuma, instead?

 

[Munterpipe]

Monty is a pain in the ASS! Just when we were ready to exploit Otto's weakness and the crazy featherhead comes bothering us again. I wonder though, if he would have declared so soon if you had just given him the horses he wanted.
Hah, if he had declared ten turns later, all our troops would probably have been in Germany anyway, and we would have been in big trouble

 

[Lobsterboy]

I debated giving him the Horses, but our relations were so bad already, that I didn't think it would make much of a difference. If only Julius would be willing to join us...

Monty is also mustering more Muskets and War Elephants in Caxitlahootchikootchi (maybe 2-3 last time I checked) If Thermo. can continue to pump are War Elephants every 3 turns, we should be able to stay on top of him, I think, with support from Sparta & Athens. Harappan and Tiflis are vulnerable if Monty manages to load some troops onto that Galley.

 

[GreyFox]

I don't think we can afford a two flank war ... Monty is already sending musketman while we are a few techs away from gunpowder. I would suggest taking Monty's invasion forces out, build up, and hopefully manage to take an Aztec city or two ... that will teach him to think thrice before declaring on us again.

Hopefully the Jap-Chinese vs Germany war would last long enough for us to join them after the Aztec wars.

--

 

[pholkhero]

I have to agree with everyone on this. The 2-front war will not be winnable, i don't think. As I've been harping on this for several turnsets now, you KNOW i'm ready to take some of Monty's cities. If we can swipe those 3 that are furthest south, I think we'll pretty much cripple Monty for the near term. Maybe then JC will jump on him.

also, like Fox said, Germany may even still be at war, and even if not, he'll have been at war so his units and infra may be depleted in either case.

 

[Munterpipe]

What are people's thoughts here? Do we declare on Bismark now and take Frankfurt? After Toku's dismal performance in Berlin, Hamburg continues to be under huge cultural stress and I think taking Frankfurt will relieve that.

Or do we move the entire stack north and punish Montezuma, instead?

I checked out the save, and I think Thermo will hold. It's on a hill, has a lot of longbows, and the AI still don't know how to take a city. Let Monty have a go, and do his pillaging, but he won't stand a chance against Greek defenders.
If we ever had the oppertunity to take some German cities, this is it. I say smash the Germans while they are weak. Take their cities, burn their lands and eat their children

Also, I see that our Prophet is ready. Let's get the shrine built ASAP. That's going to earn us SO MUCH MONEY!

 

[Lobsterboy]

Damn! I forgot to mention that Toku and Bismarck signed a Peace Treaty. (It was during the turns that I lost track of. ) Mao and Biz are still at war, however.

 

[frankcor]

Damn! I forgot to mention that Toku and Bismarck signed a Peace Treaty. (It was during the turns that I lost track of. ) Mao and Biz are still at war, however.

Gulp! If Bismark held off Toku's Grenadiers, how are we going to take his cities with Macemen? Unless someone can convince me otherwise before I pick up the save this evening, I'm going to go kick some Aztec, not German butt.

 

[Lobsterboy]

Mao didn't bring any Catapults to the party, and, if you look at the second screenshot I took of Berlin, he appears to have attacked piecemeal - he didn't appear to have used his City Raider Grenadiers in his first attack! The only German Grenadier we can see is guarding a resource (Gems? Iron?) near his other city on the N coast.

I really do think that the time to get Frankfurt is now. The problem, I think will not be taking the city, but getting enough defenders there to keep it. It will be a gamble, Biz's situation is only going to get better now that Toku is off his back. Besides, if we lose Frankfurt, chances are that Bismarck won't be able to defend it heavily, and Mao might seize the opportunity to take it with his Grenadiers from Zhou. Either way, the cultural pressure on Hamburg will be lifted.