Phaedo's 1st basic skills training game: patience required

no defensive units? we're not worried about a culture flip - revert? let's face it, we don't want to leave cossacks behind pulling guard duty, they should be out taking other cities (on new continent)

Defensive units would help against any attacks we take from Denver but there weren't any around. Should I have waited? We couldn't build one fast enough and get it down there and still head from port at the same time. Maybe I should have put one of the bigger producing cities on a musket but I was concerned about getting as many cossacks out as possible. I was also not expecting to get Nav so quickly. EDIT: we would have to leave a lot of troops to prevent a culture flip. I don't think we are going to leave a stack of six to eight units (I think an underestimate) jut to keep the city. It's in the wrong place for our staging area anyway.

At any rate, I stand by my invasion force. Our cossacks (wearing rather stylish cassocks;)) aren't bad on defence and they can retreat. That city is on the edge of the American empire, do you think it will be well fortified? Defensive or offensive give the same benefit vs culture flip and offensive are more important for a flip anyway. We station them outside the city and take it again if it flips. We'll need some defensive troops for the invasion of the main continent but I'm quite confident we can take Denver with the initial force and I will be suprised if there are any casualities. Besides, there is an army with them. Once we take the city it can be loaded up with a couple of vetrans. Do you think a musket would have been better than a 2-unit army?:)
 
Sorry I didn't consult. Maybe I should have. Banks could get the cash flowing a bit more but I thought bigger boats with more movement would be more helpful.

I say just do the best we can with Denver and improve the tiles around it if we get a chance but I don't think a farm should be an objective(there's no fresh H2O so it would be hard to make it an effective farm before electricity). Let's get a staging area set up ASAP on that little point of land sticking out to the East
 
I've played 5 turns or so now. The invasion has begun but much slower than I was hoping for. The following things would have been useful:
-a settler to form a beachhead town. Perhaps the most important thing when you invade the enemy continent. You need a town where your troops can heal and won't flip to the AI.
-workers to build roads to speed things up. There's a nasty mountain tile with no road on it that slows us down. The only other way is a jungle tile that's just as slow.
-the 3 defending units we had just for this purpose (2 muskets and 1 pike). Turned out that I didn't actually need them here but in 95% of normal games you definately want some good defenders to soak up the AI retaliation strike against your stack after you drop them.
-artillery. I guess it was a mistake to move them next to the Arab town that was as far away from Anjar/Great Library where we set out. It takes ages for them to get there.

Won't be able to make much progress during the rest of my turns which I'll play later tonight.
 
thanks for the early report salarakas. with hindsight being 20/20, it sounds like we might have started our war effort too soon.
 
I actually skipped the whole Denver island as I saw very little gain in capturing it first. Americans are down to just 6 cities and they can have the whole island for themselves for all I care. What we need to do is start hurting the Romans who have 30 towns and are getting stronger all the time. There was a hill spot southeast of the Denver island (on the main AI civs continent) so I landed our troops there. The Romans seem to have a lot of medieval infantry...

The good news is that I'll soon have a proper beachhead town and can build a road on that pesky mountain tile that keeps slowing us down.
 
Sorry about that, I had no idea you were going to bypass Denver. If I had I would have made a settler more of a priority for the first grooup of ships. All my decesions were based on stopping off at that island first.

@Cbob it's a mute point now but it was faster to take the boats around than drop off units onto mountains and wait for them to wade through jungle overland
 
What we need to do is start hurting the Romans who have 30 towns and are getting stronger all the time. .....The Romans seem to have a lot of medieval infantry...

any chance we can pillage their iron / saltpeter? then we'd be facing spears and maybe longbowmen....
 
I'm sorry but I didn't have as much time to play as I thought I would. As it's uncertain how soon I could continue I'll give the save to the next player. I played about 7.5 turns



Turn 0 - 750 AD

Status:
America - 6 cities
Germany - 14 cities
Rome - 30 cities

-spend half an hour micromanaging the towns and changing builds
-Iron Town is still starving
-Moscow can be micromanaged to 30 spt for 3 turn cossacks
-rush a settler in Anjar, wake some workers close by, rush a caravel in Great Library, send the 2 muskets and the lone pike that way as well as an elite AC that can be used for leaderfishing
-all the cats and trebs are way down southwest. They won't help much unless we delay the attack.


Turn 1 - 760 AD
-zzz


Turn 2 - 770 AD
-I could land the first wave of troops now but decide to wait a turn and see if I can find a better spot first
-load 6 workers into 2 caravels
-rush another caravel


Turn 3 - 780 AD
-make sure the exploring galleys are outside the Roman borders and declare war. 4 caravels land 3 empty armies and 9 cossacks on a hill tile next to Nicomedia.



Turn 4 - 790 AD
-load 4 cossacks into the 1st army and capture Nicomedia.
-load 4 cossacks into the 2nd army and move it NE-E
-move 2 caravels filled with cossacks into the captured Nicomedia and unload them there
-have now enough cossacks to fill the 3rd army as well
-use 2 cossacks to capture Caesarea


Turn 5 - 800 AD
-magnetism in. Start researching banking as we might want to go to at least railroads
-capture Virosomething with the 1st army. We might actually want to keep the town as it has a barracks.
-2nd army kills one pike in Syracuse
-have to declare war to Germany as their cultural borders keep blocking the way. Would have preferred to fight just one AI civ first but don't feel like I have a choice here. Germany has invented gunpowder by the way AND have saltpeter so we'll be seeing some muskets soon. They have no iron or horses though.


Turn 6 - 810 AD
-see a German longbow attack a Roman unit
-capture Syracuse, then use the same army for capturing Nuremberg (which has 6 slaves too).
-load the medieval infantry army into a galleon
-start the attack on Salzburg which needs to go
-there's 6 medieval infantry next to Viroconium and only our wounded army inside. Have to abandon the town.


Turn 7 - 820 AD
-capture Salzburg from the Germans, get lots of slaves
-abandon Syracuse
-abandon Salzburg


Turn 8 - 830 AD
-nothing major has happened yet



Notes to the next player:
-there's a stack of unprotected slaves next to Jungletown. Be sure to either cover them or preferably wipe out the medieval infantry units that might capture them. You might want to abandon Nuremberg as well. Once we get some roads built things will get easier
-I haven't micromanaged anything before the save so there's probably some things that should be changed
 

Attachments

thanks for posting the turnset sal. i'll agree that fighting germany and rome at the same time is not the best course, it sounds like it couldn't be avoided without a serious reshuffling of troops (landing in a different spot).
 
I think I can grab the save and finish out Sal's set tonight if no one else does. If anyone can get to in in about the next 8 hours, go ahead. Otherwise, I'll plan on playing and posting the remainder of Sal's turnset and then move on to mine (I think I follow Sal in the roster). Now, that leaves me playing some 12 consecutive turns . . . If anyone has any objections to my doing that or an alternate plan, please speak up.

I agree with Mr_2: as little as I like two-front wars, I don't think Sal had a lot of options there. Otherwise, as expected, a solid turnset from Sal.:goodjob:
 
I'll plan on playing and posting the remainder of Sal's turnset and then move on to mine (I think I follow Sal in the roster). Now, that leaves me playing some 12 consecutive turns . . . If anyone has any objections to my doing that or an alternate plan, please speak up.



it's a great idea. :goodjob:
 
I think we should focus on the Romans and capture/raze their core towns. We don't need to worry about the Germans much, we could stop expanding that way altogether after Stuttgart is ours. Ignore the Americans unless they have a town in a crucial spot that we need. I didn't see a single knight during the turns so it seems that the Romans don't have horses either I guess. Didn't remember to check that :(

I would use the armies only for capturing towns at this point. The cossacks can easily take care of the medieval infantry units if they are on flat ground.

The good news is that the AI civs have been fighting each other so they have burned their excess units long ago :D

Edit: I wouldn't build any banks or universities. Building them will only make the game longer. Boats, cossacks, settlers (although I guess we could just capture and starve some AI cities if we want to) and cannons are all we need now to win the game. When we get railroads we might want to build some extra workers to get the rail network done quicker. Remember to rush a harbor in some town in the other continent when we get control of some luxury resource that we don't have yet.
 
Turn 8 - 830 AD (cont'd from Salarakas)

Preflight:

80 cities
2085 gold, +693 gpt (!!!) -- great work, guys!
Banking in 1
3 Settlers
93 workers
2 swords
1 pike
2 muskets
19 cats
2 cannons
2 galleys
15 caravels
4 galleons
4 armies
40 cossacks
3 MI
1 Treb

Paying 24 gpt in unit support
We have a strong military compared to everyone
At war w/ Germany & Rome

The continent is ours.

Lincoln (the only one we're not at war with) will trade 14 gold for either Theo or 'Powder. Keeping them to myself is worth way more than 14 gold. No thank you, kind sir.

The Americans have build Cincinnati on Denver Island.

I don't see any horses for the Romans. They've got iron hooked up, but their saltpeter looks disconnected. I guess I'll know about that in a minute.

The Romans do have some dyes that they took from the Germans (Cologne).

Assessment of Germans & America: Nothing remarkable. The Americans have horses, though.

I cycle through cities:

Medina is at +5 food, has a clown and a settler at 8 turns out. For 32 gold, I rush the settler.

Silk Town is 8 turns from its courthouse. It's 53% corrupt with a net gain of 11 gpt & 7 spt. completion of the courhouse will take it to +13 gpt and 9 spt. The courthouse will cost 224 gold. That will take too long to make up the rush cost, so I'll wait a little longer.

Everything else looks fine (as expected).

Move a bunch of cats by Anjar back towards Rotterdam (the nearest rax) for upgrade to cannon.

I send one vCossack into Roman territory just to make sure that saltpeter isn't hooked up. It's not, but they sure do have a bunch of MI standing around. I've already spotted their iron. I'll see if I can get that "unhooked."

Cossack Army at Nuremberg kills a lone MI (1-0), another MI in a stack (2-0), and a third MI in another stack (3-0). Still having 1 movement pt and 17/17 HP, he fortifies.

Three veteran cossacks (currently on a caravel) are going to head south to pillage Roman Iron.

HIT ENTER.


IBT: The Romans request an audience. Sure, we'll listen.

They won't give me enough for peace, so I decline.
MI attack the army fortified at Nuremberg. Army kills 3, but eventually dies! (6-1). (I really, really didn't think the AI would attack a cossack army, fortified in a town, with MI . . . lesson learned).

Nuremberg is lost and 12 gold with it. Bastards.
We discover banking. I'm not sure what we want next, but it ain't Chivalry. Looks like ToG will get us into the next age, so I go with that. We can have it in 4 turns at 50% & +316 gpt.

Builds:
Moscow --> cossack --> cossack (3)
Medina-->settler --> settler (15)
St. Pete's cossack --> cossack (4)
Ankuwa --> Worker --> hire a geek (doesn't slow growth or affect production) -->worker (10)
Gem Town--> courthouse --> cannon (4)

The Germans are building Sun Tzu's

Turn 9: 840 AD.
Move more cats for upgrade to cannons
Capture Stuttgart, take some slaves and install governor.
Kill the Roman spear just outside Stuttgart. Get our army out in case of a flip.
The Germans will give us 6 gold, 4 gpt, Bremen and Brandenburg for peace. Sounds like a bargain and I take it.

Put settler on a hill north of Brundisium. I want to cut off the Southern Roman Empire from Iron in the South and cut the Northern Roman Empire off from spices in the north.
Spot an MI standing on the desert. Attack w/ vCossack. Kill him (5-1) and pillage a road. One more cut the Romans will be cut in half.
Found New St. Petersburg.
Found New Novgorod.
About 6 towns are about to riot. Raise lux to 20% and hire a few specialists. Mecca in particular gets a lot of beakers, but it's only 1 turn from a settler, so that will help.


IBT:
Lots of Roman MI running around. No attacks.

Builds:
Mecca--> settler -->settler (30) and hire geeks. I fiddle with it and stunt its growth. It's now a science farm w/ 4 geeks, producing 14 bpt.
Yaroslavl' --> cossack --> cossack (5)
Tyrana --> cossack --> cossack (5)
Basra --> settler --> worker (10)
Yakutsk --> cossack --> cossack (4)
Vladivostok--> cossack --> cossack (4)
Augustadorum --> settler --> settler (10)
Smolensk--> cossack --> cossack (7)
Riverton --> cannon --> cannon (4)
Moosibirsk --> settler --> settler (30)
MM iron town for gold instead of shield overrun.
Switch build to Leo's Workshop in Moscow! We are the only ones working on it & will have it in 19 turns.


Turn 10:
Spend 900 gold upgrading cats to cannons.
Unlodad many more units at Beachhead.
Build Mason-Dixon. (It divides the North from the South.)
Kill an idiot MI left alone north of Neapolis (6-1). Pillage the road. Two more Roman cities cut off from iron.

End of turns.

Here's the save at this juncture:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/94355/phaedo01v2-850ad-Aabra.SAV
 
The Romans didn't have gunpowder invented, I think, during my turns. Do they have it now?

Losing that army.. ouch. I had to abandon Viroconium for that same reason - it had 6 medieval infantry in it and only a wounded army inside. It would have probably been attacked and killed if I had kept the town. How badly was the army injured?

Losing towns is bad for war weariness so we should avoid that whenever possible. Abandon the towns if necessary. Luckily we can afford to run high lux rate if needed and we'll probably get a couple of new lux resources connected before long.

Making peace with the Germans means that we can't attack them for 20 turns (unless we break the deal). We might finish the Roman core in something like 10 turns easily if we have enough troops. Doesn't matter much though.

I think building the Leo's is just wasting shields at this point. It would have been useful if we had started building it long ago but right now it won't do us much good. One of the AI civs is bound to finish it soon as they have a wonder fetish all of them. Also, how much upgrading are we going to do in this game anyway? Cossacks won't upgrade to anything and that's the main thing we have right now. Caravels can be upgraded to galleons but it's only 30 gold a piece. You already upgraded the cats/trebs to cannons. We might have replacable parts by the end of the game but that's it. I think we might even get more money (than we would save in upgrading costs if we had the workshop) by running wealth in Moscow for 19 turns - or however long it will take once the golden age ends.

Also remember that the cossacks have the blitz ability. If one still has lots of HP left after killing a unit you can use it to attack another one on the same turn. If the medieval infantry is on flat ground (with no defense bonus) you should be able to kill lots of them in no time.
 
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