Postmortem on Mueller

[Berzerker]

I would very much love to see that lawsuit move forward.

A half-dozen libel lawsuits have been filed against Mr. Steele and other dossier-related operatives. The one filed in London in 2017 by Russian entrepreneur Aleksej Gubarev would be the first to reach trial.

https://www.apnews.com/2436a9572ea5b880c91ce059175b8685

Coming to a theater near you this fall. Now I suppose we could read thru the FISA application to see if 'source #1' made the allegation about Gubarev.

 

[Estebonrober]

https://www.apnews.com/2436a9572ea5b880c91ce059175b8685

Coming to a theater near you this fall. Now I suppose we could read thru the FISA application to see if 'source #1' made the allegation about Gubarev.

You seem to think that I'd be mortified if it came to light that Steele mislead the FBI and the Clinton campaign. Quite the contrary I think that would be important to find out. You seem to think that that would exonerate Trump and his campaign from any wrongdoing, quite the contrary just by trying to cover up all they have (very likely not related Russia in a lot of ways although some of their financial dealings seem to be coming to light in other investigations, like money laundering) done it has been enlightening to see how corrupt and corruptible this President and his family has been.

There is a keen difference in the mentality being shown here, one of us actually wants the entire truth including that our president is a patsy. The other seems to just want his accusers sent to a penitentiary somewhere and relishes the idea even though it will be awful for his nation and has already been awful for the nation. I can only shake my head at any American making light of any of this in any real way. Snicker about prostitutes peeing on beds, but popping popcorn at constitutional crises seems a bit extreme.

 

[Old Hippy]

. Snicker about prostitutes peeing on beds, but popping popcorn at constitutional crises seems a bit extreme.

snickering about the FBI Briefing Trump about about prostitutes peeing on beds seems a bit 'Hooverian' which is why it is so important to find out when Comey knew the 'Dossier' was directly sponsored and payed for by people with links to the Dems... Bob Corker and Paul Ryan had the sense to 'try' and quietly leave the Public eye after they tried using it against Trump by retiring... the were six others at that meeting the day before Comey exercised the power of the FBI... before fixing something you need to take it apart...

 

[Estebonrober]

snickering about the FBI Briefing Trump about about prostitutes peeing on beds seems a bit 'Hooverian' which is why it is so important to find out when Comey knew the 'Dossier' was directly sponsored and payed for by people with links to the Dems... Bob Corker and Paul Ryan had the sense to 'try' and quietly leave the Public eye after they tried using it against Trump by retiring... the were six others at that meeting the day before Comey exercised the power of the FBI... before fixing something you need to take it apart...

Honestly a man who won't even let the public see his tax returns isn't draining any swamps whether in the FBI or any other part of your dreaded "deep state". Its a farcical lie that only fools buy into, enjoy the **** show though.

 

[El_Machinae]

He didn't just refuse his tax return information, he lied about it. Now, in these times, only a portion of the voters care that he lied when he didn't need to. But still.

Some people want a king.

 

[Old Hippy]

@Estebonrober
I will... thankyou

 

[metalhead]

We attacked them and we still have troops in Syria

How did our attacks in either Syria or Libya "start a war?"

I'm reading the redacted FISA application on Page. Who is source #1? It sure looks like its Steele and his dossier.

Nobody denies Steele is referenced in there.

Meanwhile there are is another subsection AND 6 or 7 full sections that are completely redacted. Would you conclude from this document that the Steele dossier was the only basis for the surveillance? Or would you think maybe the dozens of redacted pages might also provide the necessary probable cause?

 

[onejayhawk]

You don't think arming the opposition to Maduro in Venezuela counts as "starting a war?"

Fueling a war certainly but starting a war, no. You might as well say that the French started the American Revolution.

How did our attacks in either Syria or Libya "start a war?"

The same way our sending aid to Maduro, or not as the case may be.

Nobody denies Steele is referenced in there.

Meanwhile there are is another subsection AND 6 or 7 full sections that are completely redacted. Would you conclude from this document that the Steele dossier was the only basis for the surveillance? Or would you think maybe the dozens of redacted pages might also provide the necessary probable cause?

What I want to see is the part where they inform the Judge of exculpatory evidence we now know they possessed.

J

 

[Zkribbler]

Any indication when the unedited version of the Mueller Report will be coming out?

 

[Traitorfish]

He's arming Ukraine and a bunch of people too, so what

The recipient of arms in Ukraine is internationally-recognised government of a sovereign state. The American role in Venezuela is surely more closely analogous to the Russian role in Ukraine?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Speaking of Saudi deals - allegedly Trump is considering an emergency declaration to allow him to send a shipment of weapons to the Saudis without Congressional approval.

The first thing that needs to happen if the GOP ever get removed from power is to rescind the emergency declaration powers or otherwise heavily restrict them so they only apply to real emergencies.

Update:
He did it, he invoked an emergency to get around Congressional approval. I don't even think Congress officially banned the weapon sale, some members just expressed concern at arming the Saudis given the atrocities they are committing in Yemen.

And now that is sufficient justification for doing a complete end-run around Congress.
Thanks Obama

Any indication when the unedited version of the Mueller Report will be coming out?

I don't think it ever will. The Democrats have backed off their threats to hold Barr in contempt on the promise that one day, eventually, he will let some of them see a slightly less-redacted version of the report in private. Someday.

 

[Old Hippy]

I don't think it ever will. The Democrats have backed off their threats to hold Barr in contempt on the promise that one day, eventually, he will let some of them see a slightly less-redacted version of the report in private. Someday.

I don't think the Dems want too... more than a month ago they rejected the offer... a CBS news link... don't know if that's trusted....
Because they only want to make gestures like holding barr in contempt, to hog the headlines

Congressional Democrats have declined an offer by Attorney General William Barr to view a less redacted version of the report by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, as only 12 members of Congress would be able to read the report and could not discuss it with other members of Congress.

In a press conference Thursday morning, Barr made the offer to the House speaker, the Senate majority leader, the House and Senate minority leaders, the chairs and ranking members of the House and Senate Judiciary Committees, and the chairs and ranking members of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees. These members of Congress, as well as one staffer for each member, could review a less redacted version of the report in a reading room, but could not take the report out of that room or discuss it with other members of Congress.

The letter was signed by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, and the ranking members of the Senate Judiciary and Intelligence Committees, Sens. Dianne Feinstein and Mark Warner.
the very people who can see the less redacted version at Barrs offer... refuse to do so

 

[onejayhawk]

Any indication when the unedited version of the Mueller Report will be coming out?

I don't think it ever will. The Democrats have backed off their threats to hold Barr in contempt on the promise that one day, eventually, he will let some of them see a slightly less-redacted version of the report in private. Someday.

Why bother? Mueller was fully involved in the redactions and the unredacted version is available to Congress. It is not less-redacted but unredacted. It's not just the leadership but any member of Congress. No one bothering to go to see it.

What's more interesting is that the WH is giving Barr broad discretion to declassify material and instructing all departments to render full cooperation. All lot of the interesting stuff is from the Obama years. Comey, Clapper and Brennan are all pointing fingers, likely because they are all soon to be exposed.

J

 

[Berzerker]

You seem to think that I'd be mortified if it came to light that Steele mislead the FBI and the Clinton campaign. Quite the contrary I think that would be important to find out.

I dont think that, you wanted the suit to go forward and you asked me for information about lawsuits against Steele so I replied.

You seem to think that that would exonerate Trump and his campaign from any wrongdoing

No, it shows wrongdoing on the part of the Clinton campaign and possibly their allies in the DoJ.

There is a keen difference in the mentality being shown here, one of us actually wants the entire truth including that our president is a patsy. The other seems to just want his accusers sent to a penitentiary somewhere and relishes the idea even though it will be awful for his nation and has already been awful for the nation. I can only shake my head at any American making light of any of this in any real way. Snicker about prostitutes peeing on beds, but popping popcorn at constitutional crises seems a bit extreme.

Who is 'us'? I've supported the Mueller investigation from the start...and now I support Barr's investigation because I want to know the truth. Its the Democrats who are upset with a Barr investigation. You threw all that at me because I found a link for you?

 

[Estebonrober]

I dont think that, you wanted the suit to go forward and you asked me for information about lawsuits against Steele so I replied.



No, it shows wrongdoing on the part of the Clinton campaign and possibly their allies in the DoJ.



Who is 'us'? I've supported the Mueller investigation from the start...and now I support Barr's investigation because I want to know the truth. Its the Democrats who are upset with a Barr investigation. You threw all that at me because I found a link for you?

No because you seem to be relishing in the drama of it, but it gets hard for me to keep you, J, oldhippy, and meinteam separated in my mind sometimes. So you will have to give me a bit of leniency. I want to know if the DoJ broke their own rules to investigate the Trump campaign? Sure, but I can't trust the Trump administration to investigate that can I(hell I can't trust them to write up a summary either)? It is pretty unrealistic to get an unbiased investigation on that front right? So? They have their IG on it, lets start there and wait, all this Barr stuff reeks of desperation. In the meantime stop blocking congress at every step. I didn't know Presidents were Kings for Four Years now.

 

[Old Hippy]

No because you seem to be relishing in the drama of it, but it gets hard for me to keep you, J, oldhippy, and meinteam separated in my mind sometimes. So you will have to give me a bit of leniency. I want to know if the DoJ broke their own rules to investigate the Trump campaign? Sure, but I can't trust the Trump administration to investigate that can I(hell I can't trust them to write up a summary either)? It is pretty unrealistic to get an unbiased investigation on that front right? So? They have their IG on it, lets start there and wait, all this Barr stuff reeks of desperation. In the meantime stop blocking congress at every step. I didn't know Presidents were Kings for Four Years now.

'' Sure, but I can't trust the Trump administration to investigate that can I(hell I can't trust them to write up a summary either)?''
ask yourself who you are trusting and why... and then look at the source documents from congress of the congressional transcripts of interviews of all the players... all the documents for making a case for 'Russian Collusion'
Trump is making them Public ... last thursday he issued a press statement... delegating it to the DOJ
if you don't trust the DOJ... ask yourself why you did 2 years ago...
ask yourself who has been calling for complete public disclosure and now criticize Trump for making full public disclosure...
I disagree with Trump on nearly all of his policies... except his vow to turn the Swamp upside down... its going to get very messy... that means exposing all the corruption that most sensible people have been calling out since the WMD lie to the UN about Iraq ( we old hippies have been calling it out since we protested the Vietnam war) ... it means calling out the 'military industrial complex' for their policy of never ending war ''They never want to leave, they always want to fight'' a quote from Trump from last week...

 

[Estebonrober]

'' Sure, but I can't trust the Trump administration to investigate that can I(hell I can't trust them to write up a summary either)?''
ask yourself who you are trusting and why... and then look at the source documents from congress of the congressional transcripts of interviews of all the players... all the documents for making a case for 'Russian Collusion'
Trump is making them Public ... last thursday he issued a press statement... delegating it to the DOJ
if you don't trust the DOJ... ask yourself why you did 2 years ago...
ask yourself who has been calling for complete public disclosure and now criticize Trump for making full public disclosure...
I disagree with Trump on nearly all of his policies... except his vow to turn the Swamp upside down... its going to get very messy... that means exposing all the corruption that most sensible people have been calling out since the WMD lie to the UN about Iraq ( we old hippies have been calling it out since we protested the Vietnam war) ... it means calling out the 'military industrial complex' for their policy of never ending war ''They never want to leave, they always want to fight'' a quote from Trump from last week...

So gullible.

 

[Old Hippy]

So gullible.

that's the first step to recovery admitting you have a problem... I wish you all the best

 

[onejayhawk]

No because you seem to be relishing in the drama of it, but it gets hard for me to keep you, J, oldhippy, and meinteam separated in my mind sometimes. So you will have to give me a bit of leniency. I want to know if the DoJ broke their own rules to investigate the Trump campaign? Sure, but I can't trust the Trump administration to investigate that can I(hell I can't trust them to write up a summary either)? It is pretty unrealistic to get an unbiased investigation on that front right? So? They have their IG on it, lets start there and wait, all this Barr stuff reeks of desperation. In the meantime stop blocking congress at every step. I didn't know Presidents were Kings for Four Years now.

That's a fairly broad spectrum of people to find indistinguishable.

You beg the question, could we trust President Obama to investigate Hillary Clinton? The answer is fairly clearly, no. The conspiracy theory is that the investigation of Trump was cooked up as camouflage for acquitting Hillary. Certainly there is much more concrete and undisputed evidence that Clinton broke various laws than that Page was a Russian spy. Without that pretext, there is nothing against Trump and the timing of it all is suspicious. Still, it's just a theory.

The bottom line is this. Will you trust the evidence or will you trust the dialogue? There was never any evidence against Kavanaugh, but enough people believe the dialogue that the vote was close. There was never any evidence against Trump and a two year investigation failed to find any. The evidence is clear but the dialogue says something else. The IG probe should wrap up soon. That is probably the next domino to fall.

J

 

[Dekker]

That's a fairly broad spectrum of people to find indistinguishable.
J

It really isn't.