Pre-SysNES2: Beta-testing and Submission

Yeah, I was wondering about the need for an intrusion unit.

Can't our troops just use jetpacks or some kind of thing like that to fly and latch on to an enemy ship and then blow some hole into it?

What would I use jetpacks inside a ship for anyways?
 
Jetpacks and grapplers don't take up any mass (and when refined, any size), and they improve every space marine: thus 4 space marines + addons = 8 space marines for half the mass and the same cost, and if you refine all the components 4 space marines + addons = 8 space marines for 3/4ths the cost and half the size and mass. Since a Space Longboat needs as high a IP and dodge as possible, that mass difference can be crucial.
 
Yeah, I was wondering about the need for an intrusion unit.

Can't our troops just use jetpacks or some kind of thing like that to fly and latch on to an enemy ship and then blow some hole into it?

What would I use jetpacks inside a ship for anyways?

This isn't some star trek pleasure yacht, ships in SysNES will often be small pressurized crew habs inside vast masses of industrial looking machinery. Zipping around fast inside there will still be an issue, and Jetpacks is more representing an improvement in suit design than anything.

Intrusion units are attaching the boarder to the enemy to stop it attempting to move away on its IP drive, frying any little space marines flying about quite easily. Also flying from ship to ship is a very very dumb move, as it'll leave your little suit rockets heat signature outlined against the sky for minutes and minutes.
 
Sober-Class Mark VII Modular Tug
'Sober Seven, Hauler'

3x Manifold Drive
1x Basic Fusion Core
1x Light Sail
n<28x External Pods

Originally constructed in Dathic shipyards the better part of a century ago, a large number of Sober Sevens were later appropriated for the purpose of evacuating refugees out of the Apeilic-Dathic warzone. Following Datha's destruction, the surviving crews retooled their ships for mass transport, becoming the vessels that are now so familiar across the Segmentum Altinahum.

These ubiquitous vessels are the mainstay of the Hankish trader fleets, and remain in production to this very day. That these venerable haulers remain in production today is a testament not to their comfort or elegant design, but for the fact that kilo for kilo and coin for coin, they're one of the cheapest ways to ship things over interstellar distances. Longtime pilots praise their simplicity, mechanical reliability and flexible design, while those less well-disposed towards these machines complain of their difficult handling and antiquated control systems, while frequently mentioning rumours of supposed catastrophic storage scaffold failures.

A Mark VII Modular Tug possesses a large light sail extending out from the front of a compact compartment which contains the living quarters, fusion core and triplet manifold drives. Stretching backwards are three extendable scaffolds, upon which can be loaded a veritable train of modular storage pods. Typically this is limited to 9 pods per scaffold for safety reasons, although some pilots with heavily-modified machines will claim to hold many more, possibly contributing to the aforementioned pervasive 'catastrophic scaffold failure' rumours. At any rate, most shippers would vastly prefer to distribute their shipments across a caravan rather than risk placing everything in a single overloaded vessel.

*****

Notes: For some reason there is a cutoff after putting on 27 pods, I have not yet found the reason but I suspect I'll find one soon.
 
The next step in my neverending quest to make particle ships viable.

Outrider-class Cruisers are the big brother of the Gadfly, designed to neutralize and destroy missile ships, hold its own against lasers, and hold down control of a system. Good for loitering and inserting listening programs. Commlinks make it an instrument of diplomatic negotiation as well.

Confederate Star Ship Outrider [Escort Class]
Stats: 126e unrefined (w/refined Ion Cannon), 11 armor, 2 IP Speed, 32/turn particle damage, 1 int

3x Manifold Drive
3x Basic Fusion Core
3x Deuterium Drive
1x Pulse Drive
1x Recyclers
1x Computer Module
1x Commlinks
1x Gas Vents
2x Interceptors
4x Ion Cannon
3x Tungsten Armor

This is the baseline model, capable of dealing and taking significant damage. Optimized to fight missile ships with heavy armor, this model is best used on patrol duty.

Confederate Star Ship Outrider [Scout Class]
Stats: 167e unrefined, 3 IP speed, 11 armor, 32/turn particle damage, 3 int.

3x Manifold Drive
4x DHe Fusion Core
2x Deuterium Drive
4x Pulse Drive
1x Recyclers
2x Computational Module
1x Scanners
1x Gas Vents
4x Ion Cannon
3x Tungsten Armor

This model is optimized for chasing down fleeing targets, or escaping superior pursuit. Abandons interceptors for higher speed. Excellent for making a run at smaller gunships, it has enough armor to absorb the hits of a small laser or missile cutter before taking it down. Also useful for piracy.

Optional model: Go down to 2 IP speed, add Hibernation Pods for longer voyages.
Optional model: Go down to 2 INT, substitute Jammers for Scanners.

---

Confederate Star Ship Warden [Occupation Class]
Function: Electronic Warfare Cruiser
Stats: 167e unrefined, 1 IP Speed, 10 armor, 6 int

3x Manifold Drive
2x Pellet Fusion Core
3x Deuterium Drive
1x Recyclers
3x Computer Modules
1x Command Deck
1x Scanners
2x Jammers
2x EW Broadcasters
2x Interceptors
1x Cluster Bombs
1x EMP Bursters
4x Tungsten Armor

A modified, expanded variant of the Outrider with EW and Command and Control specialization. Participates in a main fleet battle, simultaneously boosting fleet INT and reducing enemy INT, and providing additional cover with Interceptor fire. Also equipped for planetary sieges with Cluster Bombs and EMP Bursters.
 
Seon, you're blithely accepting that we can fuse atoms and build massive skyscraper-sized spaceships but somehow don't have the technology to feed people that live on mountains? Okay. :p

Hey, shut up man :p.
 
Luminous Shield

1x Charm Drive
7x Computer Module
3x Tungstan Armor
3x Interceptors
1x Fusion Buster
1x EMP Buster
1x Basic Fusion Core
3x Deuterium Drive
1x EW Warfare Suite
1x Gas Vents

6 int, -12 dodge, 14 armor.

Slow Hulking destroyer with the capability of engaging the enemy in electronic warfare while acting as a shield for the entire fleet against enemy missile cruisers. Equipped EMP and fusion busters means that it can also bombard the enemy and prevent them from counterattacking.

Weakness: The Outrider will ****em up.

Variant:

1x Charm Drive
7x Computer Modules
3x Tungstan Armor
5x Interceptors
4x Deuterium Drives
1x Recycler
7x Computer Modules
1 Jammer
1 EW Broadcast Unit
1 Gas Vent

A ship without any offensive capabilities except its EW broadcast unit. It is designed to stay back at the battlefield while providing passive benefits using its jammers and interceptors. It can provide EW support.

Weakness: Outrider still ****s it in the arse.
 
The next step in my neverending quest to make particle ships viable.

Outrider-class Cruisers are the big brother of the Gadfly, designed to neutralize and destroy missile ships, hold its own against lasers, and hold down control of a system. Good for loitering and inserting listening programs. Commlinks make it an instrument of diplomatic negotiation as well.

Confederate Star Ship Outrider [Escort Class]
Stats: 128e unrefined (w/refined Ion Cannon), 8 armor, 2 IP Speed, 32/turn particle damage, 1 int

3x Manifold Drive
4x Basic Fusion Core
1x Fission Rocket
2x Deuterium Drive
2x Pulse Drive
1x Recyclers
1x Computer Module
1x Commlinks
2x Interceptors
4x Ion Cannon
1x Titanium Armor
3x Tungsten Armor

This is the baseline model, capable of dealing and taking significant damage. Optimized to fight missile ships with heavy armor, this model is best used on patrol duty.

Confederate Star Ship Outrider [Scout Class]
Stats: 175e unrefined, 3 IP speed, 11 armor, 32/turn particle damage, 2 int.

3x Manifold Drive
4x DHe Fusion Core
2x Deuterium Drive
4x Pulse Drive
1x Recyclers
2x Computational Module
1x Commlinks
1x Gas Vents
4x Ion Cannon
3x Tungsten Armor

This model is optimized for chasing down fleeing targets, or escaping superior pursuit. Abandons interceptors for higher speed. Excellent for making a run at laser gunships, it has enough armor to absorb the hits of a small laser cutter before taking it down.

---

Confederate Star Ship Warden [Occupation Class]
Function: Electronic Warfare Cruiser
Stats: 167e unrefined, 1 IP Speed, 10 armor, 6 int

3x Manifold Drive
2x Pellet Fusion Core
3x Deuterium Drive
1x Recyclers
3x Computer Modules
1x Command Deck
1x Scanners
2x Jammers
2x EW Broadcasters
2x Interceptors
1x Cluster Bombs
1x EMP Bursters
4x Tungsten Armor

A modified, expanded variant of the Outrider with EW and Command and Control specialization. Participates in a main fleet battle, simultaneously boosting fleet INT and reducing enemy INT, and providing additional cover with Interceptor fire. Also equipped for planetary sieges with Cluster Bombs and EMP Bursters.

Looks good, can you check if your old 500e lineup is still a good set of ships in the newest version of the ship designer?


Luminous Shield

1x Charm Drive
7x Computer Module
3x Tungstan Armor
3x Interceptors
1x Fusion Buster
1x EMP Buster
1x Basic Fusion Core
3x Deuterium Drive
1x EW Warfare Suite
1x Gas Vents

6 int, -12 dodge, 14 armor.

Slow Hulking destroyer with the capability of engaging the enemy in electronic warfare while acting as a shield for the entire fleet against enemy missile cruisers. Equipped EMP and fusion busters means that it can also bombard the enemy and prevent them from counterattacking.

Weakness: The Outrider will ****em up.

Variant:

1x Charm Drive
7x Computer Modules
3x Tungstan Armor
5x Interceptors
4x Deuterium Drives
1x Recycler
7x Computer Modules
1 Jammer
1 EW Broadcast Unit
1 Gas Vent

A ship without any offensive capabilities except its EW broadcast unit. It is designed to stay back at the battlefield while providing passive benefits using its jammers and interceptors. It can provide EW support.

Weakness: Outrider still ****s it in the arse.

Put together a fleet :D (500e!)

Are commlinks still broken? I'm getting the EW Vulnerability but not the bonuses.

No, in conjunction with a computer module they give 1 fleet int per commlink (potentially abusive by a charm slaved fleet! I guess fleet int is not cumulative and is simply take the highest in the fleet and apply to ships)

Can anyone get EW debuffs working?

I'll check it out
 
Simulation Fleet of the Ilosian Pentarchy

Modeling nucleus of an offensive fleet, 500 e limit. Resources no object. 150 s limit.

Thoughts: Limit on wealth and attempts to ensure fleet does not depend on any rare or hard to find components and resources has lead me to the current designs.

Titanic
Role: Light Transport

4 x Manifold Drive
1 x Fission Core
4 x Basic Fusion Core
1 x Light Sail
1 x Recycler
1 x Supply Section
13 x External Hanger

Spoiler stats :

Cost 92
Cost after Refinement 41
Size 87
Mass 45
IS Rating 1
IP Speed 1
Range (years) 1
Surplus Power 0
Heat Management -5

Initative 0
Dodge -19
Missile Defence 0
Armour -52
Shielding 0

Total Size Carriable 248
EW Score 11
EW Vulnerability 8
Ship-to-Ship Boarding -37


Thoughts: Cheap and does the job. The Light Transport design can get you from A to B. Likely to go down in a ball of flames if attacked by anything, deploy fleet and then point the engines in the opposite direction. After the fight, hand out cookies (supplies).

N.B added a supply section, not sure if its needed for ships that are in the Hangers (can they all use the recyclers? Bah, probably not, balancing issues etc). As is, it really needs a range of 2, which you can do with a bit of rejigging all the ship components in the fleet and replace the recyclers with a habitat module.

Kyoto Hull
EDIT: SEE BELOW FOR DIS. I did not understand how the templating system worked. Designs below are still valid, just not as cheap. I.e. reduced cost does not exist. Where you see Kyoto replace with the set of components below.

Role: Common Hull Template

Forms the basis of the Missile/Particle/Laser/Command space ships

1 x Pellet Fusion Core
1 x Fission Rocket
1 x Pulse Drive
2 x Maneuvering Jets
1 x Tungsten Armour

Spoiler costs :
Cost 41
Cost after Refinement 18
Design s cost 20
Refinement e cost 57
Refinement s cost 14


Thoughts: None?
N.B Mostly to keep costs down, the aforementioned designs are bolted onto this common hull. Thus, Kyoto = Template. And I refined the Template cost = e savings, and hopefully a more capable fleet.

Aegis
Role: Command Ship

Command Ship

1 x Kyoto Hull
1 x Pellet Fusion Core
2 x Computer Module
1 x Command Deck
1 x Command Staff
1 x Scanners
1 x Jammers
6 x Interceptors

Spoiler stats :

Reduced Cost 70
Cost 91
Cost after Refinement 41
Size 55
Mass 37
IS Rating 0
IP Speed 1
Range (years) 0
Surplus Power 0
Heat Management -3

Initative 5
Dodge -7
Missile Defence 0
Armour 4
Shielding 0

#Missiles 6
Missile Total Damage 6
Int Bonus to Fleet 4
EW Score 17
EW Vulnerability 25
Jammer Int debuff 2
Ship-to-Ship Boarding -3


Thoughts: Support Role, gives Int to the rest of the fleet, provides a small form of missile protection in the form of interceptors (although I'm still not clear on how they work, which could make this terribad).

This thing mostly wants to hang back, so the rest of the fleet benefits from its supporting roles, however the ships poor speed could make this difficult. High Int helps out

Tyr
Role: Particle Gunship

1 x Kyoto Hull
1 x Pellet Fusion Core
1 x Deuterium Drive
2 x Pulse Drive
2 x Ion Cannon
1 x Manoeuvring Jets
1 x Gas Rockets

Spoiler stats :

Reduced Cost 107
Cost 129
Cost after Refinement 58
Size 51
Mass 28
IS Rating 0
IP Speed 3
Range (years) 0
Surplus Power 2
Heat Management -2

Initative 0
Dodge 5
Missile Defence 0
Armour 3
Shielding 0

#Particle 2
Particle Total Damage 12
EW Score 11
EW Vulnerability 5
Ship-to-Ship Boarding -4


Thoughts: Has the speed to catch enemy ships, and has the dodge to dodge incoming missiles. Ion cannons are NOT coupled => they can do a min of 1 damage, a lot of the armour people are putting up is 10-12 and ion cannons get a special effect if they do damage, which need them to HIT, more chance to hit is better!

Skinir
Role: Missile Platform

1 x Kyoto Hull
2 x Computer Module
1 x Scanners
2 x Fusion Busters
2 x Maneuvering Jets
1 x Ablative Cladding

Spoiler stats :

Reduced Cost 87
Cost 108
Cost after Refinement 49
Size 31
Mass 31
IS Rating 0
IP Speed 1
Range (years) 0
Surplus Power 0
Heat Management 1

Initative 3
Dodge 2
Missile Defence 0
Armour 4
Shielding 2

#Missiles 2
Missile Total Damage 48
EW Score 14
EW Vulnerability 9
Ship-to-Ship Boarding 1

#Seige vs Space Infra 12
#Seige vs Planet Infra 12
#Seige vs Atmos Infra 12
#Seige vs Space Pop 4
#Seige vs Planet Pop 6
#Seige vs Atmos Pop 6


Thoughts: Ok defences, mostly going to hang out at long range, STUPID good int with the fleet bonus. Portable planet bombardment.

Vidar
Role: Laser Ship

1 x Kyoto Hull
2 x Pellet Fusion Core
1 x Radiators
2 x Microwave laser
1 x Plasma Shield
2 x Tungsten Armour
1 x Heavy Cladding

Spoiler stats :

Reduced Cost 62
Cost 83
Cost after Refinement 37
Size 44
Mass 38
IS Rating 0
IP Speed 1
Range (years) 0
Surplus Power 12
Heat Management -5

Initative 0
Dodge -6
Missile Defence 0
Armour 21
Shielding 6

#EM 2
EM Total Damage 30
EW Score 11
EW Vulnerability 5
Ship-to-Ship Boarding -3


Thoughts: I worry this might be a bit light on the missile defenses, will absolutely destroy things it gets close to though (laser needs to be coupled really, what with you peoples armour obsessions...)

Razer
Role: Assault Boat

1 x Pellet Fusion Core
2 x Pulse Drive
1 x Intrusion Unit

Spoiler stats :

Cost 25
Cost after Refinement 11
Size 17
Mass 8
IS Rating 0
IP Speed 5
Range (years) 0
Surplus Power 1
Heat Management 1

Initative 0
Dodge 6
Missile Defence 0
Armour -3
Shielding 0

EW Score 11
EW Vulnerability 2
Can initiate boarding YES
Ship-to-Ship Boarding 3


Thoughts: I had left over e....cheapest thing I could cobble together that is fun. This thing has an IP speed of 5, most ships aren't even going to get close to this thing if it doesn't want them to, tied to the high speed is a good dodge. So this thing has the task of picking out vulnerable ships and trying to board them/distract them..


EDIT: So final Fleet could consist of 1 of each of the ships above, apart from the Laser ship (also need to drop an external hanger off the transport, makes it a bit cheaper, then you get the magic 500e :)
 
You seem to have misunderstood how templates work Kal' - you need to explicitly include the 'generic' components (though I did make an error, Generic Shield should be Generic Shield/Control, and V6 will have generics being a lot cheaper) when designing it, then swap out those generics for a number of actual components of up to that size. Also note that IP drive systems are not something you can have as a generic slot, since you have to build the flipping ship around them in the first place ;).

To do all those designs (except the invalid tyr and vidar) the Kyoto hull would actually look a little like:

Kyoto Template
1 x Pellet Fusion Core
1 x Fission Rocket
1 x Pulse Drive
2 x Maneuvering Jets
1 x Tungsten Armour
4 x Power Core
4 x Generic EM/P
3 x Generic S/C
3 x Generic Missile
5 x Generic A/A

For a total upfront design cost of 64s (V6 costing). You could then derive the Kyoto design (where none of the generic slots are filled) and build that. Obviously this can reduce the overall s spent on a fleet of designs (since the more designs you get from the Kyoto the better the margin is), but the upfront cost is much higher than you're representing here.
 
You seem to have misunderstood how templates work Kal' - you need to explicitly include the 'generic' components (though I did make an error, Generic Shield should be Generic Shield/Control, and V6 will have generics being a lot cheaper) when designing it, then swap out those generics for a number of actual components of up to that size. Also note that IP drive systems are not something you can have as a generic slot, since you have to build the flipping ship around them in the first place ;).

To do all those designs (except the invalid tyr, and vidar) the Kyoto hull would actually look a little like:

Kyoto Template
1 x Pellet Fusion Core
1 x Fission Rocket
1 x Pulse Drive
2 x Maneuvering Jets
1 x Tungsten Armour
4 x Power Core
4 x Generic EM/P
3 x Generic S/C
3 x Generic Missile
5 x Generic A/A

For a total upfront design cost of 64s (V6 costing). You could then derive the Kyoto design (where none of the generic slots are filled) and build that. Obviously this can reduce the overall s spent on a fleet of designs (since the more designs you get from the Kyoto the better the margin is), but the upfront cost is much higher than your representing here.

:lol: Shame. Thanks for clarifying, so I would need a hull + Generic Slots (which represent hard points and not designs). These hardpoints then represent lost money? I.e. you replace Generic Missile with fusion busters and you pay the cost of the fusion busters or the differential between the hardpoint and the fusion busters?


Luckily for me I included the 'non-refined cost', so I can still put a fleet together by dropping the Laser Ship, and taking a hanger or two off the Light Transport.

EDIT: Wait, the Tyr I get has additional IP drives, but the vidar does not, so why is that an invalid ship design?
 
Since you never actually build the template, its e cost is only relevant for determining the s cost. You just pay the e cost of whatever design you derived from the template, but make the savings in the s to research it (which would be 0 if the s is less than the template's s cost).
 
Since you never actually build the template, its e cost is only relevant for determining the s cost. You just pay the e cost of whatever design you derived from the template, but make the savings in the s to research it (which would be 0 if the s is less than the template's s cost).

Doh!

But you can refine the Template? Or not? And then you have a half and half situation with refined template and non-refined ship components on hard points.

Also, just in case
EDIT: Wait, the Tyr I get has additional IP drives, but the vidar does not, so why is that an invalid ship design?
 
Doh!

But you can refine the Template? Or not? And then you have a half and half situation with refined template and non-refined ship components on hard points.

Also, just in case
EDIT: Wait, the Tyr I get has additional IP drives, but the vidar does not, so why is that an invalid ship design?

Well you could refine the template, since the ship calculator has that option, but it seems a pretty bad idea to me :p.

The templates costs are locked in at point of creation, it will not change. If you later refine components however that's a good thing as it will further increase the s differential between the designs and the old template, and the savings you make (since refining components often reduces their size, you can fit more in on the hard point slots to boot!).

Radiators aren't a generic either.
 
Potential Fleet Combination:

1. 1 Titanic Light Transport, 1 Aegis Command Ship, 1 Skinir Missile Platform, 1 Tyr Gunship, 1 Razer Assault Boat
502 e

Extreme Combos
2. 1 Titanic Light Transport, 1 Aegis Command Ship, REFINE SKINIR (155), 3 (at 49) Skinir Missile Platforms

3. 1 Titanic Light Transport, 1 Aegis Command Ship, REFINE VIDAR (117), 4 (at 37) Vidar Laser Ships, 1 Razer Assault Boat


Terrible Combos
4. 2 Titanic Light Transport, 1 Aegis Command Ship, REFINE RAZER (32), 8 (at 11) Razers

5. 1 Titanic Light Transport, 1 Aegis Command Ship, REFINE TYR (191), 2 (at 58) Tyr Gunships

In all cases left over money usually has to be spent getting the Titanic more External Hangers....and fiddling around with the power options (I can usually get it to work!)


Given Enough Time I'll make all these fight whatever else gets put together.
 
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