Pre-SysNES2: Beta-testing and Submission

Milarqui · Jan 20, 2012

Dis, if you don't mind, please count me out of this game.

I have found that this is far more complicated than I thought, and I am going to be quite busy the next two weeks (exams are coming, you know), so I doubt I'll be able to start planning what ships my guys would have or anything else.

If something, you can keep my civilization as an NPC for the first person that comes around and wants to play.

Seon · Jan 20, 2012

Illuminous Sword

Or how REAL MAN fight in space.

Cost: 180 e 68 s

1x Charm Drive
4x Computer Module
1x Command Deck
1x Command Staff
1x EW Suite
1x Jammers
1x Interceptors
1x Gas Vents
1x Fusion Busters
1x Plasma Shields
2x Basic Fusion Core
3x Pellet Fusion Core
2x Deuterium Drives
1x Tungstan Armor
1x Ablative Armor
1x Heavy Cladding
1x Reflective Armor

Int 5.
Dodge -16
Missile Defense 0
Shield: 10
Armor: 34
Int Bonus 4

DO YOU fight in space in a cramped corridor, pushing buttons, and running around with your arse on fire if somebody shoots laser at you?! That's because you are not a REAL MAN. REAL MAN fights with an army of other people who do it FOR YOU, because you have NO PATIENCE for such things!

And when enemy space crafts comes crashing out of whatever hellholes that they came from, endangering your APPLE PIES and your WAY OF LIFE, do you run away like a scared little kitten, DODGING their weapons fire?

NO! REAL MAN DON'T CARE ABOUT SOME ION STREAMS. OR SOME LASERS. OR SOME STUPID SISSY SPACE MARINES. Do you know what you do? You stand there and let them HIT YOU like a REAL MAN! AND IF SOME STUPIDHEAD Shoots MISSILES AT YOU, What do you do?! Do you shoot your lasers desperately everywhere to shoot it down?! NO! You shoot your OWN missiles at THEIR missiles and then you watch them BLOW UP AND MAKE PRETTY FIREWORKS.

And do REAL MAN use puny little lasers or ion streams at all? NO! They use the biggest phallic missile that you can have and launch it at other people to ****em up! This is the ship for REAL MAN.

Disenfrancised · Jan 20, 2012

Milarqui said:
Dis, if you don't mind, please count me out of this game.

I have found that this is far more complicated than I thought, and I am going to be quite busy the next two weeks (exams are coming, you know), so I doubt I'll be able to start planning what ships my guys would have or anything else.

If something, you can keep my civilization as an NPC for the first person that comes around and wants to play.

You did read the beginning right - about the actual NES not starting for several months? See where you're at then.

All this complexity is in effect preloading things - playing a turn of the actual NES is going to be really really quick and easy, because of all this work done before hand. There will be far less micromanagement than SysNES1, and people aren't going to be designing 10 ships all at once like the beta-testing here. You guys certainly won't be beginning at this tech level.

In other notes I won't really be around to answer questions over the weekend, so you guys should beta-test between yourselves. V6 of the Ship Designer will be out monday.

lol@ Seon

Seon · Jan 20, 2012

Luminous Key

3x Manifold Drive
3x Fission Core
4x Pellet Fusion Core
4x Fission Rockets
1x Recycler
1x Salt Sink
1x Microwave Beamers
1x Plasma Shield

Int 0
Dodge -14
Missile Defense 0
Armor -9
Shields 13

EM Damage: 64

Price: 109 e 43 s

Kal'thzar · Jan 20, 2012

Seon, I command you to put a fleet together!

Thlayli · Jan 20, 2012

I'm going to build a new fleet once I update my old designs. Watch this space.

Lord_Iggy · Jan 20, 2012

If Milarqui is out, is there a space for Kentharu?

Disenfrancised · Jan 20, 2012

Lord_Iggy said:
If Milarqui is out, is there a space for Kentharu?

If Mille doesn't want to play when the NES actually starts, yes.

Symphony D. · Jan 21, 2012

Welcome to the Mondeo Defense Fleet Simulation (MDFS)!

A hypothetical construction recognizing that low technology level (LTL) ships are inherently limited in capabilities, the Mondeo Defense Fleet (MDF) was designed to test the survivability and battle effectiveness of cheap, numerous, and expendable platforms in a planetary defense situation. As part of this simulation, the maximum technology level for any MDF ship has been capped at TL3, although assumptions about refinement have been made considering unit expense/possibility of technologically superior opponents, and the MDF has been capped at an arbitrary 500e limit for the sake of easy comparisons.

The MDF heavily favors numerous unmanned directed-energy defense platforms with limited command and control capabilities and a cadre of widely-equipped ships to run interference for the defense platforms. Achieving localized advantages in numbers, mixed weapons damage, and a wide variety of attack vectors are the primary objectives of the MDF.

Spoiler MDF COMPOSITION :

Code:

[b]MDF LOADOUT[/b]

[u][b]Unit			Cost	#	Total[/b][/u]
Spear SRDP (Refined) 	12	10	120
Pike LRDP (Refined) 	14	4	56
Clarion EWDP 		58	1	58
Shrike AEF (Refined)	9	4	36
Kite SEF (Refined) 	12	3	36
Owl LB	 		36 	2	72
Raptor MB		32 	2	64
Eagle GS: 		58	1	58

[b]TOTAL					500[/b]

With credit to Disenfrancised for the Hornet and Dragonfly, which serve as the Owl and Kite, respectively.

Symphony D. · Jan 21, 2012

Obsolete, see post below.

Seon · Jan 21, 2012

Cheap and dirty Frigate

Cost: 52 e. S: 24

4x Burst Drive
2x Deuterium Drive
1x Recycler
6x Coilguns (2x 3-coupled Coilguns)
1 Tungstan Armor
1 heavy Cladding

Symphony D. · Jan 21, 2012

Let's look at some antimatter ships, which allow for some ridiculously good movement performance, if also being quite expensive. These all share the same propulsion packages and at least some of the powerplant; stats assume TL3 except for [CON], as noted:

[CON4] Hilux DE (Destroyer Escort)
1 Twist Drive (Refined)
1 Antimatter Core (Refined)
2 Antimatter Drives (Refined)
4 Pulse Drives (Refined)
1 Hibernation Pod
1 Antimatter Bottles (Refined)
1 Computer Module
1 Scanner (Refined)
4 Coilguns (Refined) (QUAD-COUPLED)
4 Maneuvering Jets (Refined)
1 Gas Rocket (Refined)
1 Carbon Armor
1 Tungsten Armor
1 Heavy Cladding

Cost: 177e (80e) / 32m / 23v / 12a / 0t
IS Rating: 3 / IP Speed: 4 / Range: 1
Init: 1 / Dodge: 6 [PROP3] / Missile: 0 / Armor: 10 / Shield: 0

POSSIBLE BUG REPORT: Strangely Computer (Refined) on this drops heat management by 2 from -1 to +1, so that's why it's not added. Refining Hibernation Pods drops heat management by 1 and armor by 1, so also not added. The power gains don't seem worth the heat gains considering no concurrent mass loss.

Runs a little hot (+1) and the armament's a bit light but it's a fast and evasive bastard with good range and mediocre armor. Can only make a one-way trip without support, but with some tankers and strategy that shouldn't be a problem.

---

[CON4] Taro DME (Missile Destroyer Escort)
1 Twist Drive (Refined)
1 Antimatter Core (Refined)
2 Antimatter Drives (Refined)
4 Pulse Drives (Refined)
1 Hibernation Pod
1 Antimatter Bottle (Refined)
5 Computer Modules
1 Scanner (Refined)
1 Radiator
2 Fusion Busters (Refined)
1 Tungsten Armor
1 Heavy Cladding

Cost: 167e (75e) / 35m / 14v / 12a / 0t
IS Rating: 5 / IP Speed: 4 / Range: 1
Init: 5 / Dodge: -4 [PROP3] / Missile: 0 / Armor: 10 / Shield: 0

Rather less nimble but as well protected, and having an unusually good IS Rating, built to keep up and screen from Laserboats.

---

[CON6] Tundra DD (Destroyer)
1 Twist Drive (Refined)
1 DHe Fusion Core (Refined)
1 Antimatter Core (Refined)
2 Antimatter Drives (Refined)
4 Pulse Drives (Refined)
1 Hibernation Pod
1 Antimatter Bottle (Refined)
1 Computer Module
1 Scanner (Refined)
8 Coilguns (Refined) (QUAD-COUPLED)
6 Maneuvering Jets (Refined)
1 Gas Rocket (Refined)
4 Tungsten Armor
1 Heavy Cladding

Cost: 216e (97e) / 48m / 29v / 12a / 0t
IS Rating: 3 / IP Speed: 3 / Range: 1
Init: 1 / Dodge: 6 [PROP3] / Missile: 0 / Armor: 26 / Shield: 0

The bigger brother, heat's less of a problem, armament's doubled, and 250% armor, with the same maneuverability and only slightly reduced speed.

---

[CON6] Tacoma DGM (Guided Missile Destroyer)
1 Twist Drive (Refined)
1 Antimatter Core (Refined)
2 Antimatter Drives (Refined)
4 Pulse Drives (Refined)
1 Hibernation Pod
1 Antimatter Bottle (Refined)
5 Computer Modules
1 Scanner (Refined)
4 Fusion Busters (Refined)
1 Maneuvering Jets (Refined)
1 Gas Rocket (Refined)
2 Carbon Armor
2 Tungsten Armor
1 Heavy Cladding

Cost: 193e (87e) / 42m / 25v / 12a / 0t
IS Rating: 3 / IP Speed: 3 / Range: 1
Init: 5 / Dodge: -4 [PROP3] / Missile: 0 / Armor: 20 / Shield: 0

Not as nimble or as heavily armored as its equivalent Particle counterpart, but it can keep up and screen out Laserboats.

---

Thoughts:

I'm not sure how I feel about mass and size only scaling apparently linearly with [CON]; it feels like a really forced gameplay mechanic to limit complexity. Acceleration will naturally suffer with any sufficiently huge ship but you can essentially build something as big as you want, if you're fine with it being slow and ungainly as hell. It seems like [CON8] on should feel more epic than merely 2-3 times the size of [CON4], considering the difficulty and time of getting there. Of course, these could just be placeholder values...
[CON5] lets you make marginal improvements to loadout but it mostly consists of just tossing on some more Armor and Maneuvering Jets to balance it out, so it'd just be some interim template improvements rather than anything substantive.
I'm not really certain about coilgun damage values unless there's something more to them that's not reflected in the raw damage numbers, it seems really low unless coupling improves it significantly.

Lord_Iggy · Jan 21, 2012

Disenfrancised said:
Pick ONE most favouritist one

Fine, fine, though I see no reason why Hank should not be a multi-biome world. The core regions of settlement at the present time can be Plains.

Kal'thzar · Jan 21, 2012

Symphony D. said:
Let's look at some antimatter ships, which allow for some ridiculously good movement performance, if also being quite expensive. These all share the same propulsion packages and at least some of the powerplant except for the last; stats assume TL3 except for [CON], as noted:

[CON4] Hilux DE (Destroyer Escort)
1 Twist Drive (Refined)
1 Antimatter Core (Refined)
2 Antimatter Drives (Refined)
4 Pulse Drives (Refined)
1 Hibernation Pod
1 Antimatter Bottles (Refined)
1 Computer Module
1 Scanner (Refined)
4 Coilguns (Refined) (QUAD-COUPLED)
4 Maneuvering Jets (Refined)
1 Gas Rocket (Refined)
1 Carbon Armor
1 Tungsten Armor
1 Heavy Cladding

Cost: 177e (80e) / 32m / 23v / 12a / 0t
IS Rating: 3 / IP Speed: 4 / Range: 1
Init: 1 / Dodge: 6 [PROP3] / Missile: 0 / Armor: 10 / Shield: 0

POSSIBLE BUG REPORT: Strangely Computer (Refined) on this drops heat management by 2 from -1 to +1, so that's why it's not added. Refining Hibernation Pods drops heat management by 1 and armor by 1, so also not added. The power gains don't seem worth the heat gains considering no concurrent mass loss.

Runs a little hot (+1) and the armament's a bit light but it's a fast and evasive bastard with good range and mediocre armor. Can only make a one-way trip without support, but with some tankers and strategy that shouldn't be a problem.

Try replacing 2 of the coilguns with 1 ion cannon => particle does a min of 1 dmg if armour is high enough, so mix in ion cannons to also get some emp stuff going on, better than quad coils. Also it cools and thus gives you more armour.

With only 1 comp module refining it does nothing to heat management, for me. It scales as (Heat-size/2) (max 6, min -5). Refined comp modules have no size. So with enough, yes it will increase heat. Not sure if thats a good thing

Symphony D. · Jan 21, 2012

This deserves its own post because it's truly ridiculous:

[CON6] Vanquish DDL (Laser Destroyer)
1 Twist Drive (Refined)
2 Antimatter Core (Refined)
4 Antimatter Drives (Refined)
1 Hibernation Pods
2 Antimatter Bottle (Refined)
1 Computer Module
1 Scanner (Refined)
2 Radiators (Refined)
4 Microwave Lasers (Refined) (TWIN-COUPLED)
4 Maneuvering Jets (Refined)
1 Gas Rocket (Refined)
1 Carbon Armor
3 Tungsten Armor
1 Heavy Cladding

Cost: 242e (109e) / 38m / 17v / 24a / 0t
IS Rating: 11 / IP Speed: 3 / Range: 1 / Heat: -1
Init: 1 / Dodge: -4 [PROP3] / Missile: 0 / Armor: 13 / Shield: 0

A bizarrely high IS Rating that you'd probably never use due to fueling concerns, rather weak Dodge considering all the kit attached (though up to 3 at [PROP5]), and mediocre Armor, but the main thing is you've got 55 Surplus Power from Twist being frugal when not operating and Antimatter being absurd. As a result, "Divert all power to weapons," nets you 492 Total EM Damage.

Seon · Jan 21, 2012

Symphony D. said:
This deserves its own post because it's truly ridiculous:

[CON6] Vanquish DDL (Laser Destroyer)
1 Twist Drive (Refined)
2 Antimatter Core (Refined)
4 Antimatter Drives (Refined)
1 Hibernation Pods
2 Antimatter Bottle (Refined)
1 Computer Module
1 Scanner (Refined)
2 Radiators (Refined)
4 Microwave Lasers (Refined) (TWIN-COUPLED)
4 Maneuvering Jets (Refined)
1 Gas Rocket (Refined)
1 Carbon Armor
3 Tungsten Armor
1 Heavy Cladding

Cost: 242e (109e) / 38m / 17v / 24a / 0t
IS Rating: 11 / IP Speed: 3 / Range: 1 / Heat: -1
Init: 1 / Dodge: -4 [PROP3] / Missile: 0 / Armor: 13 / Shield: 0

A bizarrely high IS Rating that you'd probably never use due to fueling concerns, rather weak Dodge considering all the kit attached (though up to 3 at [PROP5]), and mediocre Armor, but the main thing is you've got 55 Surplus Power from Twist being frugal when not operating and Antimatter being absurd. As a result, "Divert all power to weapons," nets you 492 Total EM Damage.

Holy...

But wait! Wouldn't this design consume more antimatter per turn than it is able to store?

Edit: Wait, refining antimatter bottles increase maximum storage? hot damn.

Matt0088 · Jan 21, 2012

Here's another potential fleet to test out Kal, an improvement upon my previous all ship-boarding fleet:

MFS Pelican: 1x for 63e
20x Burst Drive
4x Basic Fusion Core
1x Light Sail
14x External Hanger

MFS Seagull Mk2: 15x for 345e
1x Deuterium Drive
1x Pulse Drive
1x Intrusion Unit
4x Space Marines

MFS Swallow: 1x for 26e
1x Basic Fusion Core
1x Habitat Section
1x Supply Section

Alongside a 69e refinement cost for the Seagull Mk2, this fleet costs a total of 503e. The Pelican is meant to merely jump in system, and release the flock of Seagulls, which can return at any point to resupply with the Swallow, which'll remain with the carrier. The seagulls will always target the ship which possess the greatest ability to eliminate seagulls, and when unable to seize a ship, will always destroy it.

Matt0088 · Jan 21, 2012

And another fleet full of spammables. This time of the particle variety.

MFS Pelican: 2x for 126e
20x Burst Drive
4x Basic Fusion Core
1x Light Sail
14x External Hanger

MFS Swallow: 1x for 26e
1x Basic Fusion Core
1x Habitat Section
1x Supply Section

MFS Eagle: 1x for 28e
2x Deuterium Drive
1x Command Deck
1x Command Staff
1x Scanners
1x Radiators

MFS Raven Mk2: 35x for 315e
2x Deuterium Drive
1x Ion Jet

Total cost is 502e including 25e to refine the Raven. The two Pelicans having the carry capacity to load on 22 more Ravens. The Pelicans and the Swallow would stay together, the Eagle will lead the flock of Ravens (which, with a speed of 3 IP and 4 IP, will be very hard to get engage in close range). Cyborgs have +2 INT don't forget.

ALTERNATIVELY:

MFS Crow: 51x for 306e

1x Deuterium Drive
1x Pulse Drive
1x Coilgun

Trade a 1/5th as much damage for 5 IP speed, larger quantity, and significantly cheaper overall cost in volatiles.

Do ship collisions still destroy both ships?

Kal'thzar · Jan 21, 2012

People said:
Entries

Great! I'm getting to it. Half way through Symphony D.'s defensive fleet. Just finished analysing the ships. I'll post a log up once I'm done. Plus a few other things: Rules that I've used in the conflict and of course the tactics I used.

Matt0088 said:
Cyborgs have +2 INT don't forget.

I'm checking out ship balance, not racial. So I'm going to ignore that at the moment. Maybe after I've done everything we can have a look at it

.

Kal'thzar · Jan 21, 2012

I've just realized that I don't have a rule set to use, and the one I can find from SysNes1 is a bit uhmmm old:

Spoiler :

Here is the round structure of ship to ship combat (note - defender always wins ties)

One fleet attempts to engage another, it will succeed according to a comparison of the two fleets slowest speed if the other fleet does not wish to engage â€“ if it does wish to then engagement is automatic.
Protagonists speed is greater: 100%
Fleets have equal speed: 75% (7-8 on a D8)
Protagonist is 1 speed slower: 50% (5-8 on a D8)
Protagonist is 2 or more speeds slower: can't engage.
As well as running, a fleet can also attempt to hide in the noise of a planet to avoid the enemy. This can only be done if the evading fleet only has ships with quiet drives. The aggressor roll D10+[Computation]+[Number of Sensors] against the defenders D10+[Energy]+[Number of Sensors]+Inititive. If the defender succeeds combat does not occur.
The two fleets are now at long range and can engage with missiles. The attacker rolls D10+int+(propulsion tech/4) against the defenders D10+dodge for each missile, if the attacker wins it deals missile damage to the opponent. Missile salvoes happen simultaneously and are aimed at opposing ships of the players choice.
Missile phase over, the fleets can either attempt to move to close range, stay at long range or try to escape. Fleets roll D10+slowest speed+int against each other and the winner gets to choose what range they move to.
If Escape is chosen combat ends, if Long Range is chosen combat repeats step II and III, if short range is chosen combat moves to short range.
The two fleets are now at short range and can engage with missiles, beams, and particles. The attacker rolls D10+int against the defenders D10+dodge for each missile, then rolls D10+int+4+speed against the defenders D10+dodge+speed for each beam and particle, if the attacker wins it deals damage of the appropriate type to the opponent. Beam damage is reduced by 1 for each point of armour and 3 points of shields, Particle damage is reduced by 1 for each point of shields and 3 points of armour.
Once a ship has been dealt damage equal to its size it is destroyed.
With one round of close range combat complete, the fleets can now attempt to stay at close range or go back to long range, or move to boarding range. Fleets roll D10+slowest speed+int and the winner gets to choose what range they move to. If move back to long range go to II, if stay at short range is chosen go to V, and if boarding range is chosen move to boarding range.
At Boarding range if the aggressor has something that enables boarding they roll D10+Ground Combat+number of boarding devices vs the opponents D10+Ground Combat, and if they win they take over the targeted opposing ship. If they fail the fleets move back to short range. The aggressor or defender may choose to ram at boarding range and rolls D10+int+speed vs the defenders D10+int+speed, if they win both ships are destroyed.

When all ships on one side are dead, fled, or captured, combat ends. All ships that took any damage are 'damaged'.

So I've taken them and fashioned my own set:

Spoiler :

Attempting that with Symphony D.'s defensive fleet and I think hes got me beat.... Yup.
I'll post a log up (depending on if the above rules I posted are anything like the final ones)

Pre-SysNES2: Beta-testing and Submission

Deity

Not An Evil Liar

Beep Beep

Not An Evil Liar

Deity

Le Pétit Prince

Tsesk'ihe

Beep Beep

Deity

Deity

Not An Evil Liar

Deity

Tsesk'ihe

Deity

Deity

Not An Evil Liar

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

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