Or I've done things to my calculator....and trust me I have. I hope it hasn't affected it.
Good catch! Its a IF(# compmodules = 1, add 1, else add 0) it should Greater than or equal!
Pre-SysNES2: Beta-testing and Submission
- Thread starter Disenfrancised
- Start date
Or I've done things to my calculator....and trust me I have. I hope it hasn't affected it.
Good catch! Its a IF(# compmodules = 1, add 1, else add 0) it should Greater than or equal!
Managed to get a laser ship that can light up some dodge 7 ships, just (40% hit rate)
Flyswatter
3 x Pellet Fusion Core
2 x Deuterium Drive
3 x Computer Module
1 x Scanners
1 x Radiators
1 x Microwave laser
1 x Microwave laser
1 x Microwave laser
1 x Microwave laser
1 x Gas Rockets
1 x Plasma Shield
3 x Tungsten Armour
1 x Heavy Cladding
Then you can couple lasers of course.
Flyswatter
3 x Pellet Fusion Core
2 x Deuterium Drive
3 x Computer Module
1 x Scanners
1 x Radiators
1 x Microwave laser
1 x Microwave laser
1 x Microwave laser
1 x Microwave laser
1 x Gas Rockets
1 x Plasma Shield
3 x Tungsten Armour
1 x Heavy Cladding
Then you can couple lasers of course.
Some small improvements with the Pelican class Carrier:
MFS Pelican Mk2 class Carrier:
4x Manifold Drive
7x Basic Fusion Core
1x Light Sail
22x External Hanger
Cost: 103e (e) / 45m / 14v / 0a / 0t / 41s
Size: 119 / Mass: 59
IS Rating: 1 / IP Speed: 1 / Range: 0 / Power: 2 / Heat: -5
Init: 0 / Dodge: -24 / Missile: 0 / Armor: 81 / Shield: 0 / Total Size Carriable: 546
Allows for 36 Ravens at 498e or 37 at 507e.
I don't feel that any balancing of particle weapons, or at least the use of particle weapons in swarms, is needed. The total volatile cost of the Raven fleet nears 360v. I'd need to actively pursue ecocide this time to acquire that much volatiles, even if economy values are boosted 2x or 3x as much compared to SysNES. Alternatively, I would have to terraform a biosphere back to health every five years to maintain volatiles production, which I think is safe to assume that it will not be cheap.
MFS Pelican Mk2 class Carrier:
4x Manifold Drive
7x Basic Fusion Core
1x Light Sail
22x External Hanger
Cost: 103e (e) / 45m / 14v / 0a / 0t / 41s
Size: 119 / Mass: 59
IS Rating: 1 / IP Speed: 1 / Range: 0 / Power: 2 / Heat: -5
Init: 0 / Dodge: -24 / Missile: 0 / Armor: 81 / Shield: 0 / Total Size Carriable: 546
Allows for 36 Ravens at 498e or 37 at 507e.
I don't feel that any balancing of particle weapons, or at least the use of particle weapons in swarms, is needed. The total volatile cost of the Raven fleet nears 360v. I'd need to actively pursue ecocide this time to acquire that much volatiles, even if economy values are boosted 2x or 3x as much compared to SysNES. Alternatively, I would have to terraform a biosphere back to health every five years to maintain volatiles production, which I think is safe to assume that it will not be cheap.
1. There are other long range weapons that don't require such massive amounts of v.
2. Beam and particle weapons are BETTER at long range than missiles versus bad dodge opponents!
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
A greater to hit chance, sure, but lower damage yields if a hit is scored.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Another random comment: I think an Anti-Personnel Systems component should be added specifically to increase defense against boarding attempts.
Seon
Not An Evil Liar
What kind of a device would be an anti-personnel system, though?
Automated Turrets/robots?
Nanites which eat through space suits?
An armory for your ship's crew to run towards and get suited up?
Automated Turrets/robots?
Nanites which eat through space suits?
An armory for your ship's crew to run towards and get suited up?
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Any of those, or a combination...though you should edit your post, as dis foams at the mouth when anyone says 'nanites'. 
Seon
Not An Evil Liar
Well, I only said things that I thought wouldn't work anyways 
.
Nanites, aside from probably being impossible to achieve, if made so that it can eat through your enemies, will eat through you just as easily.
Automated Turrets in your ships. Might work, I guess. Until the enemy gets smart and starts hacking it. If it's just motion sensor device designed to shoot at any noise, there's the whole Friend-or-foe identification problem.
Armories. Wouldn't most ships have them anyways? And if you have armories, why not just have Space Marines which cost 1 size and 1 mass anyways.
. Nanites, aside from probably being impossible to achieve, if made so that it can eat through your enemies, will eat through you just as easily.
Automated Turrets in your ships. Might work, I guess. Until the enemy gets smart and starts hacking it. If it's just motion sensor device designed to shoot at any noise, there's the whole Friend-or-foe identification problem.
Armories. Wouldn't most ships have them anyways? And if you have armories, why not just have Space Marines which cost 1 size and 1 mass anyways.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Well I doubt there's a gunpowder magazine if that's what you're getting at, Matt.
And using Space Marines for defense is okay, though it seems cost ineffective compared to defense turrets.
And using Space Marines for defense is okay, though it seems cost ineffective compared to defense turrets.
Seon
Not An Evil Liar
Yeah. Thlayli's armory would probably be loaded with rocket launchers instead of puny little gunpowder weapons. I mean, really, who uses guns or puny lasers when you can take the biggest mothereffing rocket that you can shoot at other stupid space marines?
Thlayli knows where it's at.
Thlayli knows where it's at.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Laser or plasma weapons. Using a projectile weapon inside a ship in 0g is all kinds of stupid.
Seon
Not An Evil Liar
Bah, REAL MAN don't care that there ain't no gravity. REAL MAN DON'T CARE ABOUT NEWTON'S THIRD LAW. REAL MAN PUNCHES NEWTON IN THE FACE!
Do we have plasma weapons able to be carried by space marines, though? I know we have plasma shields, but I am not sure that we have plasma weapons.
Do we have plasma weapons able to be carried by space marines, though? I know we have plasma shields, but I am not sure that we have plasma weapons.
thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
Hi. Sorry, but RL is clearly taking too much of my time, so I'm going to have to drop out.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
Answering Questions using post counts to save space:
SymD 232
The heat problem when refining computers is that refined computers are smaller (in fact have 0 size). Since the heat calculation includes size as one of the inputs this means the average heat of the ship increases.
I do think its a good way to have it liek this, and edge cases of performance reduction are to just be taken as a fact of life of having better/hotter computers.
On size scaling linear with CON I argee and disagree, having to build your ship on top of a reaction drive does severely limit what you can build, however as of V6 it will scale non-linearly, and immobile platforms will have no size limit.
Coilguns will have low damage values compared to lasers, but those values are reduced by armour much less, and some particle damage will always get through as long as there is a hit.
Lord Iggy 233
Hank will obv have multiple biomes, I just want to know which of them the hankish would prioritize.
SymD 235
With V5 ship designer at 10 in all techs, the maximum possible damage output that you can configure a full size weapons platform to do is ~21 million per beam device.
Matt0088 238
Ship collisions have been declared silly as a combat technique.
Kal' 240
Whoops guess I should have written a proper battle model. You have it pretty correct though. Things that are important and I wanted to change:
-Moving to boarding range is going to be a normal move rather than a special one. Thus boarding takes two turns Long->Close, and then Close->Boarding the following turn with the intrusion boat under fire the whole time.
-EW happens before all the physical combat bits, but after the movement. EW can happen at long range unless the foe has jammers, in which case its short range only, and when in a CLOSE with a jammer ship, the EW ship can't EW out of that instance.
-The same goes for long range physical weapons, you can fire out of CLOSE unless there are jammers in there with you.
-A second movement phase doesn't make much sense, just start the next turn after damage.
-If a ship gets SEIZED, then the boarding ship has to stay with it for the rest of the battle.
SymD 245
While a space elevator is valuable it is also absurdly expensive and a big vulnerable target. Going for a space elevator will pay off, but will have huge opportunity costs. Fountains on the other hand are a lot cheaper but need continuous upkeep, and is something only a total warmonger or the guy who wants to be the shipwright for the Segmentum to undertake.
Volatiles is a big variable, some system will have more than you know what do do with, others will be completely dry.
Kal's awesome ship simulations 1
Very interesting, impressive how a tech 3 fleet drove off a tech 5 one. I may need to raise the price of interceptors vs kinetic lances.
Kal's awesome ship simulations 2
The swarm fleet was funny, though I think the different turn structure listed above would have reduced their effectiveness somewhat. Its also pretty hard countered by a multibeamer ship of any competence.
Kal's 250
Questions in order:
Yes the fleet command applies to the command ship as well. The Command deck boosts the fleet and the ship on its own, whilst the command staff boosts the fleet and has no additional bonus to the ship that it is on.
Interceptors can attempt to intercept anything, including other interceptors (int order of issuing ships determining priority).
Jammers int debuff is entire battlefield, and highest debuff only. Their EW hindering effect is close range as mentioned earlier. -ve Int is indeed possible.
New turns structure renders that question moot, since ships alwasy die just before a new round starts.
Since the particle int debuff is from Bremsstrahlung crew deaths and damage and induced currents it lasts a long time, much longer than the individual battle.
Hmm need to look into that -ve armour stuff.
Capturde ships is in the realm of the mod - if the marine commanders of the faction involved are going to surrender or blow their prizes (or a little of both). If you guys have worked out a *Geneva convention on prisoners then that'll happen.
Noted on boarding, there are already some more anti boarding stuff in V6, and I may play with the calculations. Note that destroying is much easier than capturing an enemy vessel, once you're onboard tossing a grenade in the engine control room will end a ship pretty quick.
SymD 251
Whilst good vs capital ships, the Shrike II will be eaten alive by anything with dodge. Also of note is that Kal's fleet was a a few ships two tech levels ahead. I think the small ship firepower will be more relevant facing a enemy at tech parity.
Kal' 255
But why would lasers be better against high dodge than low ones? If you make them stronger vs dodge they'll just become the best.
The bonus to particle and laser vs dodge at long range is that dodge is about the unpredictability of another ships position - the less random the other ship is, the better it will be to use c and near c countermeasures rather than course adjusting missiles. I make stop it being quite so wild though.
I may improve laser to hit chances to the highest whilst reducing their damage.
Thlayli 258
=1 should be >=1 with the commlinks, will fix right away for V6
Thlayli 266
Way ahead of you.
SymD 232
The heat problem when refining computers is that refined computers are smaller (in fact have 0 size). Since the heat calculation includes size as one of the inputs this means the average heat of the ship increases.
I do think its a good way to have it liek this, and edge cases of performance reduction are to just be taken as a fact of life of having better/hotter computers.
On size scaling linear with CON I argee and disagree, having to build your ship on top of a reaction drive does severely limit what you can build, however as of V6 it will scale non-linearly, and immobile platforms will have no size limit.
Coilguns will have low damage values compared to lasers, but those values are reduced by armour much less, and some particle damage will always get through as long as there is a hit.
Lord Iggy 233
Hank will obv have multiple biomes, I just want to know which of them the hankish would prioritize.
SymD 235
With V5 ship designer at 10 in all techs, the maximum possible damage output that you can configure a full size weapons platform to do is ~21 million per beam device.
Matt0088 238
Ship collisions have been declared silly as a combat technique.
Kal' 240
Whoops guess I should have written a proper battle model. You have it pretty correct though. Things that are important and I wanted to change:
-Moving to boarding range is going to be a normal move rather than a special one. Thus boarding takes two turns Long->Close, and then Close->Boarding the following turn with the intrusion boat under fire the whole time.
-EW happens before all the physical combat bits, but after the movement. EW can happen at long range unless the foe has jammers, in which case its short range only, and when in a CLOSE with a jammer ship, the EW ship can't EW out of that instance.
-The same goes for long range physical weapons, you can fire out of CLOSE unless there are jammers in there with you.
-A second movement phase doesn't make much sense, just start the next turn after damage.
-If a ship gets SEIZED, then the boarding ship has to stay with it for the rest of the battle.
SymD 245
While a space elevator is valuable it is also absurdly expensive and a big vulnerable target. Going for a space elevator will pay off, but will have huge opportunity costs. Fountains on the other hand are a lot cheaper but need continuous upkeep, and is something only a total warmonger or the guy who wants to be the shipwright for the Segmentum to undertake.
Volatiles is a big variable, some system will have more than you know what do do with, others will be completely dry.
Kal's awesome ship simulations 1
Very interesting, impressive how a tech 3 fleet drove off a tech 5 one. I may need to raise the price of interceptors vs kinetic lances.
Kal's awesome ship simulations 2
The swarm fleet was funny, though I think the different turn structure listed above would have reduced their effectiveness somewhat. Its also pretty hard countered by a multibeamer ship of any competence.
Kal's 250
Questions in order:
Yes the fleet command applies to the command ship as well. The Command deck boosts the fleet and the ship on its own, whilst the command staff boosts the fleet and has no additional bonus to the ship that it is on.
Interceptors can attempt to intercept anything, including other interceptors (int order of issuing ships determining priority).
Jammers int debuff is entire battlefield, and highest debuff only. Their EW hindering effect is close range as mentioned earlier. -ve Int is indeed possible.
New turns structure renders that question moot, since ships alwasy die just before a new round starts.
Since the particle int debuff is from Bremsstrahlung crew deaths and damage and induced currents it lasts a long time, much longer than the individual battle.
Hmm need to look into that -ve armour stuff.
Capturde ships is in the realm of the mod - if the marine commanders of the faction involved are going to surrender or blow their prizes (or a little of both). If you guys have worked out a *Geneva convention on prisoners then that'll happen.
Noted on boarding, there are already some more anti boarding stuff in V6, and I may play with the calculations. Note that destroying is much easier than capturing an enemy vessel, once you're onboard tossing a grenade in the engine control room will end a ship pretty quick.
SymD 251
Whilst good vs capital ships, the Shrike II will be eaten alive by anything with dodge. Also of note is that Kal's fleet was a a few ships two tech levels ahead. I think the small ship firepower will be more relevant facing a enemy at tech parity.
Kal' 255
But why would lasers be better against high dodge than low ones? If you make them stronger vs dodge they'll just become the best.
The bonus to particle and laser vs dodge at long range is that dodge is about the unpredictability of another ships position - the less random the other ship is, the better it will be to use c and near c countermeasures rather than course adjusting missiles. I make stop it being quite so wild though.
I may improve laser to hit chances to the highest whilst reducing their damage.
Thlayli 258
=1 should be >=1 with the commlinks, will fix right away for V6
Thlayli 266
Way ahead of you.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
So many people dropping out way before the NES starts :C
thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
it's not your fault, this really interested me, it's just that School is much more intense this semester than any previously. I'll definitely be reading it.
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