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Preview Thread: PerfNES I: [Insert Title Here]

Discussion in 'Never Ending Stories' started by Perfectionist, Feb 13, 2011.

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  1. Lord of Elves

    Lord of Elves Suede-Denim Secret Police

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    Considering the competition for the Chobanids, I'd like to edit my countries of interest. Thanks.
     
  2. Toteone

    Toteone Deity

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    Perfectionist, in Italy, is it the center that is run by the Emperor. What about the Istrian and Istria, the Dalmatian coast and Carinthia (especially with the Carinthian lobby I'm not sure)?
    How about Corsica?
     
  3. ChiefDesigner

    ChiefDesigner Sunset Emperor

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    *shrug* I'm working off the numbers presented in the Cambridge History section on the Ming fiscal apparatus--I don't have any primary sources close to hand. Even internal tolls only amount to 320,000 taels or so, by the numbers I have--and presumably that includes overland trade and internal interprovincial commerce.


    ...but the same body of work shows that the first thing merchants do when they earn money is buy land. Why take risks in something as dangerous as overseas trade, when rent extraction is both simpler and more profitable?

    Additionally, there is the ideological test one has to pass before becoming a member of the scholar gentry... Success in the Confucian examinations is based on ability to internalize the Confucian canon and, essentially, recite accepted doctrine on command--and there are accounts of examiners flunking people with heterodox ideas (Kang Youwei perhaps being the canonical example.) Plutocratic government is a tremendously radical idea for the time period, given the governing institutions and ideologies that exist--and I don't feel like there has been a substantial enough challenge to the scholar-bureaucrat-landlord method of domination, certainly not one that warrants revolution as opposed to 'reform.' It took the OTL Industrial Revolution taking place in Japan to really bring down the Confucian order--rebellions and Mongol invasions certainly aren't going to be that transformative.

    -----

    This is an interesting conversation, and I'm certainly open to continuing it; perhaps we should take it elsewhere and/or move on? You clearly believe me to be mostly, but not entirely, too dumb to engage, and I think you're overlooking the incentives present and underestimating the social impact of Confucian ideology; regardless, we're probably boring most people here.

    I will pick up the Steinberg later this week, but I think what I am looking for is an economic history of the region, which the Steinberg doesn't look to be. Any recs there, off the top of your head?
     
  4. Thlayli

    Thlayli Le Pétit Prince

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    Perfectionist actually dumped some info in the NES development thread a while back. Here it is for your viewing pleasure.

     
  5. Toteone

    Toteone Deity

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    Thanks!
     
  6. Kraznaya

    Kraznaya Princeps

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    The Omani description cuts off, Perfy :(
     
  7. Azale

    Azale Deity

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    Nah he did that for dramatic effect.
     
  8. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

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    I can't be bothered arguing. There's so much wrong, and so little time.

    I think you need to avoid economic history.
     
  9. Thlayli

    Thlayli Le Pétit Prince

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    No need to be that mean, Masada. :p
     
  10. Adrogans

    Adrogans Quiet Laughter...

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    Isn't it a natural state for him though...I'd be worried if he wasn't :p
     
  11. madviking

    madviking north american scum

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    1. Other Novgorod
    2. Moscowy
    3. Yaroslavl

    Credentials: backed by popular demand, has driven Dachs in his car, I maintain a Russian citizenship/heritage.
     
  12. Perfectionist

    Perfectionist Angel of Verdun

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    You mean the Symphonic style? It wouldn't be that much work for me to make a Northern style version too, if it bothers you that much.

    Yeah, I'm in the process of doing one.

    So I did. :blush: Sorry, fixed.

    Yes, the center is directly run by the imperial administration, as are the alpine territories. The Adriatic possessions are run by military governors appointed by the Emperor. The governor of Carinthia is likewise appointed by the emperor. Carinthia in particular has a fair bit of leeway in its government, but it's much less independent-minded than, say, Milan, and markedly pro-imperial anyway. Corsica exists in a sort of cheerful anarchy. The Sicilians and Italians had a bit of struggle over it for a while, but then they both realized that the Corsicans would pretty much change sides at the drop of a hat and there's nothing on Corsica worth garrisoning the place heavily enough to keep them loyal. Corsica nowadays is mostly run by various feuding native clans who pay lipservice to the emperor and not much else.

    So it does. Thanks for pointing it out, and it's now fixed.
     
  13. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    I was going to do this in PM, but I figured it would be more useful here: could you give me a DaNES II-style faction breakdown for Egypt, the Banu Ghaniya, the Romans, the Chubanids, Makuria, Makkah, Ethiopia, and the Zabidis?
     
  14. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

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    Longfarts as well please :D
     
  15. Thlayli

    Thlayli Le Pétit Prince

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    Seconded for Sicily, Italy, Provence, Saraqusta, the Muwahidduns, and Liyun. :)
     
  16. Kraznaya

    Kraznaya Princeps

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    ... and Gascony and Lisbon for good measure.
     
  17. Bill3000

    Bill3000 OOOH NOOOOOOO! Supporter

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    And Lotharingia, Swabia, England, Frisia, Provence, Saxony, Thuringia, Lusatia, Denmark, Sweden, Friland, Bohemia, and Poland please!
     
  18. Azale

    Azale Deity

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    and the Mongols too bro
     
  19. Ninja Dude

    Ninja Dude Sorry, I wasn't listening...

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    Don't forget Yaroslavl and the Order.
     
  20. Yui108

    Yui108 Deity

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    Someone probably mentioned the Aradabilids...but them too.
     
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