Protest the TSA. Nov 24 is National Opt-Out Day.

[GhostWriter16]

Between those who support this, and whatever position that Dommy holds...

Somewhere there is a reasonable answer.

It must be approaching the position I hold

 

[Tacitusitis]

They are vague outlines of the human body

This is not true. The millimeter-wave machines create a detailed three-dimensional image.

Again, I cannot post any images because they literally would be NSFW, but there are hundreds of leaked images on the web.

 

[MobBoss]

[Like a military flogging, the pat down is intended to be a painful, humiliating experience for the victim, and an intimidating warning to everyone else who is forced to watch.

While I dont agree with pat downs and agree they go to far, I really dont think this is truthful either. I certainly dont believe the intention is simply to humiliate people. At all.

Show TSA they're wrong. Make it unbearable for THEM. Opt out on or before Nov 24.

Thats not going to show them anything. They will just show up, do their job, and then go home, while you get to have your junk touched for free.

Yeah...thats showing them all righty.

 

[GhostWriter16]

While I dont agree with pat downs and agree they go to far, I really dont think this is truthful either. I certainly dont believe the intention is simply to humiliate people. At all.

You MIGHT be right (Its questionable) but there is no doubt that's what it does. Its abuse and illegal.

Thats not going to show them anything. They will just show up, do their job, and then go home, while you get to have your junk touched for free.

Yeah...thats showing them all righty.

If they had to do it for thousands of people, I think it would.

 

[MobBoss]

You MIGHT be right (Its questionable) but there is no doubt that's what it does. Its abuse and illegal.

I dont think its questionable at all.

No, its not abuse. Yes, it is legal. If it werent, they wouldnt be doing it.

But is it a good idea? Probably not.

If they had to do it for thousands of people, I think it would.

Do clerks selling movie tickets get stressed out about long lines getting even longer? Hell no. Neither will these TSA folks. They will see this as you exercising your option, but I am pretty sure they could care less whether they frisk 100 people a day or a 1000, or even 10,000. All in a days work, as it were.

I know it wouldnt stress me out. I am not the one trying to catch a flight.

Opting out of a body scan isnt going to send the TSA a message. What would send them a message is if people stopped flying all together, and the airlines started complaining about it. That might get someones attention. But your average joe opting out? Heck no.

 

[Behind The Mask]

It must be approaching the position I hold

You're far to dogmatic to be right on much...

But in this case you've cast your lot in with the more reasonable side; but that doesn't stop the fact that you're way off in right field.

 

[.Shane.]

The problem is there is no good way to protest this. If, say, you wanted to protest Target its pretty easy to picket outside or try to convince people to stop shopping there. With travel of this sort, you can't really do anything disruptive and there are not good alternatives to not traveling by air*.


*I know you can drive, but most people travel by air because driving is just not a good alternative for that trip. Be it business, distance, whatever. However, there are plenty of alternatives to shopping at Target.

 

[warpus]

Opting out of a body scan isnt going to send the TSA a message. What would send them a message is if people stopped flying all together, and the airlines started complaining about it. That might get someones attention. But your average joe opting out? Heck no.

If most people opt out on the 24th then it will delay a lot of flights.. and screw things up.. TSA will care.. and they do - I read they're having some sort of a meeting about how to deal with this

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

There are a lot of very frightful issues regarding both the pat downs and the scanners. First, minors are not exempt in any way from pat downs. Only 12 and under can be. So you could have your 13 year old daughter subject to a full body pat down. Think about that.

Secondly: http://gizmodo.com/5690749/these-are-the-first-100-leaked-body-scans

At the heart of the controversy over "body scanners" is a promise: The images of our naked bodies will never be public. U.S. Marshals in a Florida Federal courthouse saved 35,000 images on their scanner. These are those images.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...t-over-safety-and-privacy-of-airport-scanners

Rez agrees the individual risk is still negligible. "It's a 1-in-20-million chance of dying from radiation for each scan," he says. "Your chances of being struck by lightning in the US in any year is 1 in 500,000. But the probability of being blown up in an airplane by a terrorist is around 1 in 30 million. So the risk from the scan is about the same as the thing you're trying to prevent."

 

[.Shane.]

There are a lot of very frightful issues regarding both the pat downs and the scanners. First, minors are not exemt in any way from pat downs. Only 12 and under can be. So you could have your 13 year old daughter subject to a full body pat down. Think about that.

So a 10 year old is except from the pat downs? Meaning I can opt out my daughter from the body scan and they would have her do a more old school wand scan or metal detector scan?

If so, good to know, as my next air travel is w/ my daughter next summer.

 

[GhostWriter16]

I dont think its questionable at all.

No, its not abuse. Yes, it is legal. If it werent, they wouldnt be doing it.

But is it a good idea? Probably not.

Yes, groping someone's genitals or taking an X-Ray of their body is an illegal search. Read the fourth amendment.

Also, I'm surprised you haven't figured out that THEY DON'T CARE if its legal or not. Read Franklin's quote carefully.

Do clerks selling movie tickets get stressed out about long lines getting even longer? Hell no. Neither will these TSA folks. They will see this as you exercising your option, but I am pretty sure they could care less whether they frisk 100 people a day or a 1000, or even 10,000. All in a days work, as it were.

I know it wouldnt stress me out. I am not the one trying to catch a flight.

Opting out of a body scan isnt going to send the TSA a message. What would send them a message is if people stopped flying all together, and the airlines started complaining about it. That might get someones attention. But your average joe opting out? Heck no.

As Warpus said, if enough guys did it then yes it would because it would delay things.

One guy? No. But a lot of them yes.

Rez agrees the individual risk is still negligible. "It's a 1-in-20-million chance of dying from radiation for each scan," he says. "Your chances of being struck by lightning in the US in any year is 1 in 500,000. But the probability of being blown up in an airplane by a terrorist is around 1 in 30 million. So the risk from the scan is about the same as the thing you're trying to prevent."

If its the same, why do it?

 

[.Shane.]

If most people opt out on the 24th then it will delay a lot of flights.. and screw things up.. TSA will care.. and they do - I read they're having some sort of a meeting about how to deal with this

How to deal with it?

Divide and conquer. They'll back down on the pilots and then the pilot unions will shut up, meanwhile the rest of us get to risk possible health exposures or sexual assault. It would be nice if the pilots stuck up for their passengers, but I don't expect them to give a crap once they get what they want.

 

[GhostWriter16]

How to deal with it?

Divide and conquer. They'll back down on the pilots and then the pilot unions will shut up, meanwhile the rest of us get to risk possible health exposures or sexual assault. It would be nice if the pilots stuck up for their passengers, but I don't expect them to give a crap once they get what they want.

I know. Its total crap.

As I said, every state governor willing should privatize every airport in his state and refuse to allow TSA agents to work in the airports.

THAT would send a message. And I'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

[MobBoss]

If most people opt out on the 24th then it will delay a lot of flights.. and screw things up.. TSA will care.. and they do - I read they're having some sort of a meeting about how to deal with this

Why would it delay flights? Its on the passenger to arrive early enough to make it through security, not the other way around.

Yes, groping someone's genitals or taking an X-Ray of their body is an illegal search. Read the fourth amendment.

You try reading it. This isnt an illegal search as you give your permission for them to do it. Duh.

Also, I'm surprised you haven't figured out that THEY DON'T CARE if its legal or not. Read Franklin's quote carefully.

Of course they care. How can they not care?

As Warpus said, if enough guys did it then yes it would because it would delay things.

No, it wouldnt. Again, its not on the airline to wait for late passengers, and its a passengers responsibility to arrive early enough to get through security.

As I said, every state governor willing should privatize every airport in his state and refuse to allow TSA agents to work in the airports.

You really havent thought this one through have you?

 

[JollyRoger]

Yes, groping someone's genitals or taking an X-Ray of their body is an illegal search. Read the fourth amendment.

The 4th Amendment says nothing about screening procedures related to a voluntary choice of travel.

 

[warpus]

Why would it delay flights? Its on the passenger to arrive early enough to make it through security, not the other way around.

Yeah, but arriving 3 hours early (or whatever the present guidelines state) wont' be good enough if everyone starts opting out on the 24th and causing delays.

 

[Ajidica]

Dommy, if we are allowed to torture people and deny them their constitutional rights because they might be terrorists, why is this any different? We are simply discovering whether they happen to possess the means to stage a terrorist attack.

Furthermore, doesn't the 4th only protect against unlawful search and siezure? If it is authorized by law, they can do it. Additionaly, by chosing to ride an airplane through the major terminals, are you not consenting to the search?

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

So a 10 year old is except from the pat downs? Meaning I can opt out my daughter from the body scan and they would have her do a more old school wand scan or metal detector scan?

If so, good to know, as my next air travel is w/ my daughter next summer.

It sounds like it:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...nds-enhanced-pat-downs-and-safety-of-scanners

"...there would be an exemption, if you will, from the thorough pat-down for children 12 and under."

 

[MobBoss]

Yeah, but arriving 3 hours early (or whatever the present guidelines state) wont' be good enough if everyone starts opting out on the 24th and causing delays.

Then arrive earlier. Duh.

Plan your trip accordingly....or fail.

Or if you gotta make the plane, and times limited, dont opt out if the line is a mile long.

But dont expect the airlines to hold your plane because of a long line at a security point. It aint going to happen.

 

[JollyRoger]

Given that the terrorists boarded airplanes on 9/11, I think anyone boarding an airplane should be suspected of being a terrorist (using the same methods) and waterboarding them to discover the reason they are mimicking the terrorists should not be out of the question.