Punching Nazis

[Ryika]

Sure, if they are self-admitted to support an ideology that explicitly entails killing demographics. I don't think it's particularly wrong to respond with violence if they are gallivanting around espousing that rhetoric. If the state won't ban such speech it is up to the people to ensure that propagandizing of that sort isn't welcome in a public place.

I'm glad we agree then. And it worked, too, after he woke up, he took off his arm band and will likely not wear it anymore.

Kind of random, but I feel like this is a good time to share some pictures of my favorite German rapper, Favorite (that's his name). Sorry for the bad quality, the music video was created in... I think it was 1938.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

A street knock out is not at all equivalent to daily repetitive head blows.

I like that we're now at the level where the minimum basic decency we owe other members of society is just to not subject them to daily repetitive head blows.

 

[inthesomeday]

Basic decency, in Manfred's mind, ought to include being a Nazi

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Basic strawman, in inthesomeday's mind, ought to strawman strawman gibberish.

 

[Ryika]

Basic decency, in Manfred's mind, ought to include being a Nazi

So would you say the Nazi has los his "inherent value" by subscribing to the ideology?

 

[Lexicus]

So would you say the Nazi has los his "inherent value" by subscribing to the ideology?

Inherent value =/= right to not get punched in face when you go around public places with a swastika armband shouting nazi stuff

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Oh where were you guys when Prince Harry went off the rails that time. How did we get through that terrible time without you.

 

[Ryika]

Inherent value =/= right to not get punched in face when you go around public places with a swastika armband shouting nazi stuff

But in that other discussion it was argued that we should treat people decently precisely because they have inherent value by inthesomeday. Does not punching people not fall under general decent treatment?

 

[caketastydelish]

I do more than punch nazis. I am a trained, professional kung-fu fighter. I use my ninja Chinese moves against them.

 

[inthesomeday]

But in that other discussion it was argued that we should treat people decently precisely because they have inherent value by inthesomeday. Does not punching people not fall under general decent treatment?

This is not true, I said that all human life has inherent value, and I do maintain that this Nazi's life has inherent value. He also needed to be stopped from harming those people, so the punch was a well-placed instance of self defense.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Yes he definitely looked like he definitely needed to be stopped. They were in imminent danger.

 

[inthesomeday]

He had invaded their communities and was harassing them. I daresay that, had the Nazi been instead a member of ISIS (an organization roughly morally equitable to Nazis), and had been, perhaps, waving an ISIS flag instead of wearing a Nazi armband, was yelling about the glory of Allah, and had alerted the crowd he was armed beforehand, you would have no problem with him being hit. Nor would I. All forms of fascism must be met with immediate and decisive force to subdue.

 

[Synobun]

I like that we're now at the level where the minimum basic decency we owe other members of society is just to not subject them to daily repetitive head blows.

Who said any of that? I'm not sure why you're quoting me specifically to make a remark like this.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

You're right. There's no link between what I said and what you said at all.

 

[El_Machinae]

Inherent value =/= right to not get punched in face when you go around public places with a swastika armband shouting nazi stuff

You actually have this right.

 

[Lexicus]

You actually have this right.

Well, yeah, I mean, I'm not the one who wants to gas millions of people...I just maybe want to laugh at them getting punched in the face under certain circumstances...

 

[Berzerker]

A street knock out is not at all equivalent to daily repetitive head blows.

I didn't say they were equivalent, I gave an example of how concussions shorten lifespan. Boxers and NFL players lose more than a couple years to head trauma.

 

[Akka]

You also vastly overestimate the life crippling potential of a knock out.

I'll go on a limb and suppose you have never practiced a serious martial art and have no practical knowledge of serious fighting.

For the record : I don't care that an actual neo-nazi got punched. But I had a look at the news, and I do feel very uneasy at the disturbing "hunting" mentality of the whole thing, with people tracking the guy and asking others to go assault him. Regardless of the "morality of punching a nazi" itself, this mentality is just sick. It doesn't feel like people using a moral right to fight off evil, it seems like a bunch of thugs trying to find a pretext to spend their aggressivity on someone and feel vindicated about it at the same time.

 

[Synobun]

I'll go on a limb and suppose you have never practiced a serious martial art and have no practical knowledge of serious fighting.

Don't know why you'd assume that. Although you're right, recently I haven't been involved in any of that because I can't be. When I was younger I got into fights and have indeed been at the receiving end of a knockout.

Heads aren't watermelons. We're durable creatures. Doesn't mean you should go for KOs where possible, just means it's not the shrieking death sentence it's being portrayed as in this thread. There's risks associated with it. There are risks with body shots too. There are risks with any type of serious fight. A well-placed hit to the chest can damage your liver and kill you. A strong enough hit to the back can cripple you or make you walk with a seizing limp for the rest of your life. Who knew that you could hurt people when you're throwing fists?

 

[Akka]

This is not true, I said that all human life has inherent value, and I do maintain that this Nazi's life has inherent value. He also needed to be stopped from harming those people, so the punch was a well-placed instance of self defense.

You just are tripping over yourself here.
He wasn't harming these people. You can argue he was a dickhead that morally deserved to get a punch in the face (and I wouldn't even disagree), but you can't argue he was actually dangerous at the moment. Samely, if people have inherent absolute and equal value, it's hard to claim some should be morally punched and other not.
You're jumping one way and the other because you want to be able to claim the guy should have been punched, but your own self-professed convictions get in the way. Which should at least give you pause and make you think.