Racism

[Kyriakos]

I used to be able to tan, now a couple of hours and i am boiled lobster

It is why ireland fell to the forces of the "black and tans"

 

[Akka]

Just look at the ridiculous eu which can't even make little hungary stop electing actual racists to power; tptb cannot care less, but dont mind the plebs/etc talking.

That's probably just a set-up, we all know that the EU is an all-powerful tyrant that oppress its members.

 

[Kyriakos]

That's probably just a set-up, we all know that the EU is an all-powerful tyrant that oppress its members.

German humour is lame.

 

[Yeekim]

But very germane to the theme.

 

[Cutlass]

They say that the perfect is the enemy of the good.

Sure. But if perfect is unattainable, then something better than that is still feasible.

 

[Lexicus]

I would be very interested in reading how it is demonstrated that the lack of a European style welfare state in America is due to racism first and foremost.

Well, it has been demonstrated a number of times that opposition to these kinds of policies correlates strongly with attitudes commonly labelled under the term "racial resentment" (oh the things white people will come up with to avoid saying "racism" because it makes other white people uncomfortable to hear that word).

You know, it's entirely possible I did that by accident. I use a touchscreen, and I know for a fact I have accidentally liked posts before, then been unable to find where I did it.

Well it was, to give Hehehe his due, a well-crafted bit of racist trolling. It was a post on how "demographics" in Africa, Yemen are leading to crisis - basically setting up the point that the dumb Africans and Arabs (or specifically Yemenis I suppose) are going to breed themselves into starvation unless we "do something" like forced sterilization. That's the classic sort of one-two punch of nazism - first you set up the Malthusian crisis as the inevitable result of doing nothing, then it makes the horrific crimes you propose look like a pretty good option. It even sets up the dynamic where soldiering on through aversion to what you're doing becomes perceived as a kind of virtue.

It's interesting because I just (few weeks ago) read a very interesting essay on the intellectual origins of racism in the Enlightenment, and none other than Thomas Malthus played a starring role. Malthus' work was one of the essential steps in rendering man a mere beast.

 

[red_elk]

Well it was, to give Hehehe his due, a well-crafted bit of racist trolling. It was a post on how "demographics" in Africa, Yemen are leading to crisis - basically setting up the point that the dumb Africans and Arabs (or specifically Yemenis I suppose) are going to breed themselves into starvation unless we "do something" like forced sterilization.

The idea of forced sterilization proposed by members of "first world" sounds strangely familiar. I have a counter-proposal for these people - to start with themselves.

 

[bernie14]

It is why ireland fell to the forces of the "black and tans"

Yeah, well, im only like 10% nw european though...

 

[Archon_Wing]

It's interesting because I just (few weeks ago) read a very interesting essay on the intellectual origins of racism in the Enlightenment, and none other than Thomas Malthus played a starring role. Malthus' work was one of the essential steps in rendering man a mere beast.

Lol, no wonder why he gets mentioned despite like almost never being right.

Anyhow, the fact that we have actual racists that pretend thinly not to be racistsrace realists spewing in this board is.... well, I'd expect this from other places. Is it a good thing that they've had to go a little underground and pretend a bit? Well, not deep enough I guess.

 

[bernie14]

.....That's the classic sort of one-two punch of nazism - first you set up the M̶a̶l̶t̶h̶u̶s̶i̶a̶n̶ Marxist crisis as the inevitable result of doing nothing, then it makes the horrific crimes you propose look like a pretty good option.

I know im slow n' all, but how is this much different from your civil war/ jacobin solution?

 

[Lexicus]

I know im slow n' all, but how is this much different from your civil war/ jacobin solution?

Maybe you can explain what a "Marxist crisis" is for me?

 

[bernie14]

Maybe you can explain what a "Marxist crisis" is for me?

i assume something to do with some justice related dingbat egaliterian theory of yours?

 

[Hehehe]

https://www.brookings.edu/research/...ent-discipline-connecting-policy-to-research/

Rebukes 1 and 2 more studies back this think tanks take on the topic. You don;t get to randomly pull out one study and say my study is better. The direction of studies says discrimination is a problem.

From your link:

Steinberg and Lacoe note a shortcoming of this work is its inability to control for students’ prior disciplinary records, suggesting that might explain justifiable differences in severity of punishment for similar infractions—in this case, the results would overestimate discrimination’s impact.

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2413&context=articles

Rebukes 3. Again you are picking one study when the majority find otherwise.

My study already addressed the points made by the study you cited

One of the most consistent findings in the criminological literature is that African American males are arrested, convicted, and incarcerated at rates that far exceed those of any other racial or ethnic group. This racial disparity is frequently interpreted as evidence that the criminal justice system is racist and biased against African American males. Much of the existing literature purportedly supporting this interpretation, however, fails to estimate properly specified statistical models that control for a range of individual-level factors. The current study was designed to address this shortcoming by analyzing a sample of African American and White males drawn from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (Add Health). Analysis of these data revealed that African American males are significantly more likely to be arrested and incarcerated when compared to White males. This racial disparity, however, was completely accounted for after including covariates for self-reported lifetime violence and IQ. Implications of this study are discussed and avenues for future research are offered.

You've also given a beautiful example of confirmation bias, you have read up on this and intentionally found what little you could to support your opinion of the argument and stuck with that because it fulfills your view of the world.

I could throw these claims of a bias right back at you. Look man, I used to be a progressive once. I am familiar with all of these far-fetched arguments about "systemic bias". They do not stand up to scrutiny. You're simply wrong

 

[Hehehe]

Well it was, to give Hehehe his due, a well-crafted bit of racist trolling. It was a post on how "demographics" in Africa, Yemen are leading to crisis - basically setting up the point that the dumb Africans and Arabs (or specifically Yemenis I suppose) are going to breed themselves into starvation unless we "do something" like forced sterilization. That's the classic sort of one-two punch of nazism - first you set up the Malthusian crisis as the inevitable result of doing nothing, then it makes the horrific crimes you propose look like a pretty good option. It even sets up the dynamic where soldiering on through aversion to what you're doing becomes perceived as a kind of virtue.

First of all, I've never suggested anything like "forced sterilization". I know that you're a lying lowlife, but try not to put words into my mouth. Second, I've never understood the attitudes of people like you. Do you not understand that future is a thing? Do you not understand that unsustainable trends are unsustainable? Or is that you don't really care about the people you claim to care about? You'd rather feel bad for the Yemenis rather than actually prevent those kinds of disasters in the first place?

Moderator Action: Here at CFC, we do not call each other "lying lowlifes." It's flaming and you have received an infraction for it. Congratulations. --LM
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[brennan]

It's nice how lighter moderation hasn't led to posters calling each other liars and nazis on a regular basis.

 

[Traitorfish]

Look man, I used to be a progressive once.

I mean, so was Mussolini, but it's not generally understood that this conversion lent his views any particular objectivity.

 

[Lexicus]

i assume something to do with some justice related dingbat egaliterian theory of yours?

Just curious, in your...uh...non justice related Totally Sane non-egaliterian theory, where in the hierarchy do people who can't spell "egalitarian" fall?

Moderator Action: From the rule book...

Spelling and grammar
English is not everyone's first language. Not everyone has perfect language skills. As such, don't comment on other peoples' ability to spell words correctly or construct sentences. If you cannot understand their meaning, you may let them know in a nice manner.

Moderator Action: Mocking someone's inability to spell is not nice. --LM

Second, I've never understood the attitudes of people like you.

Yet you claim that you "used to be progressive," so surely you do (or at least at one point did) understand the attitudes of people who are repelled by your suggestions, no matter how obliquely you present them?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Colorblind policies are not racist and it is not a respectable position to claim they are racist. If you're getting "racist outcomes" (which sounds silly), a better avenue to explore is why, given a demonstrably fair selection process, outcomes remain unequal. You need to correct the source of that problem, not engage in a cycle of handouts and then look the other way at the underlying issues.

You can broadly propose either upstream variability (welfare cycles, bad culture, bad starting financial situation) and/or actual physical differences as reasons you get unequal outcomes with otherwise equal policy.

Always interesting is that race and gender find their way into the narrative often. Things like height, attractiveness, age, and IQ have similar or worse stratifications (depending on which one and what you're measuring) don't have nearly the legislation or narrative coverage despite being similarly beyond control (excepting partially for attractiveness).

Yet we don't hear talk about equal outcomes for short people. Equality of outcome is a nonsense notion anyway, if you want to level the playing field then level it. Don't pay lip service to a problem by arbitrarily awarding some advantages to some population stratifications but not others because reasons then pretend it's fair.

 

[Hehehe]

I mean, so was Mussolini, but it's not generally understood that this conversion lent his views any particular objectivity.

All I'm saying is that I am familiar with all of these oppression narratives, and I do not think that they stand up to scrutiny.

Yet you claim that you "used to be progressive," so surely you do (or at least at one point did) understand the attitudes of people who are repelled by your suggestions, no matter how obliquely you present them?

And what suggestions are those? Forced sterilizations? That was a lie that you made up in your on-going efforts to slander me. You're repelled by your own imagination. Look, I'm not a communist. I don't like starvation. I don't wish it upon anyone. I'm not suggesting we "force" Yemenis to do anything. I recognize that they have a right to self-determination. I just don't think it's going very well. I suggest they'd stop farming drugs and start farming food, but I'm not trying to force them to do anything. The only thing I'm going to do about Yemen is sending them aid and advice

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That was a lie that you made up in your on-going efforts to slander me.

For the record, there's no point in slandering Hehehe since he does such a fine job of it himself. His posts generally show that he is things that we aren't allowed to call him.