Racism

[bernie14]

I need some extra money...

You are an asian woman?

 

[Cutlass]

I don't see how you can be certain if you haven't tried half of them and screwed up most of the others/

Because it simply doesn't address most of the aspects of the unequal starting position.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't see how you can be certain if you haven't tried half of them and screwed up most of the others/

Certainty is over rated. Take satisfaction that I'd support the effort even based on my own "five generations is optimistic but something to hope for" assessment. But I am more patient than most.

@HoloDoc S'okay. As a USian I've arrived mostly on the right side of the Anglo Saxon oppressors, who seem to have moved on to frying bigger fish than my ginger haired self...at least hereabouts.

 

[brennan]

Because it simply doesn't address most of the aspects of the unequal starting position.

Does it need to? Isn't addressing e.g. inherited wealth imbalances rather fundamental?

 

[HoloDoc]

You are an asian woman?

No, but I keep one chained up in the spare room.

Moderator Action: That is NOT funny. Refrain from this sort of comment in the future, please. --LM

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Because it simply doesn't address most of the aspects of the unequal starting position.

I have this friend, about my age. We grew up in the same rural area with two small "cities." I got sent to a religious school by my parents who weren't religious because it was a "better education." It also coincidentally was in the heart of town and beyond the means of any black family in the area. My friend got sent to a religious school, because his parents couldn't afford to drive him into town every day and the local public school district didn't extend bus service into that area...just like the county water department didn't extend service into that area so they had to put in with their neighbors and drill a well, the county didn't pave any roads in that area no matter how many houses were built there, etc etc etc. His religious school made no pretense about offering a better education, it was just the only game in town where he was growing up, fifteen miles from where I was growing up. If one of the church mothers hadn't been a teacher, or there hadn't been lots of other people from the church willing to help her, there'd likely have been no way to get him into any school at all.

There is NOTHING that will ever address the unequal aspects of our starting positions, and we both know it.

There is NOTHING that will ever address the unequal aspects of his kids' starting positions compared to mine. But truth is, even with as little as has been accomplished they are in fact far less unequal than his to me.

Bottom line, there are only generational solutions to generational problems. There is no prompt redress.

 

[brennan]

Education is a tough nut to crack. Parents' attitudes and expectations (and the way they bring their kids up) play a major role in outcomes.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Education is a tough nut to crack. Parents' attitudes and expectations (and the way they bring their kids up) play a major role in outcomes.

I have to point out that my friend's kid has more education than any of my three. Mine were willing and able to shrug off the idea that lack of education would be a hardship they couldn't overcome. His kid knew they were facing more than enough hardships already. The generational process of ironing out the inequalities does seem to be progressing.

 

[brennan]

Depends, poor outcomes among poor white kids is an issue in the UK at present and has been for some time. There seems to be a cultural problem in the UK over the value of education.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Depends, poor outcomes among poor white kids is an issue in the UK at present and has been for some time. There seems to be a cultural problem in the UK over the value of education.

From a societal standpoint I guess my kids might be viewed as "poor outcomes." But if I were ever to need a terrorist cell they would be my top lieutenants, so they aren't total losses.

 

[Cutlass]

I have this friend, about my age. We grew up in the same rural area with two small "cities." I got sent to a religious school by my parents who weren't religious because it was a "better education." It also coincidentally was in the heart of town and beyond the means of any black family in the area. My friend got sent to a religious school, because his parents couldn't afford to drive him into town every day and the local public school district didn't extend bus service into that area...just like the county water department didn't extend service into that area so they had to put in with their neighbors and drill a well, the county didn't pave any roads in that area no matter how many houses were built there, etc etc etc. His religious school made no pretense about offering a better education, it was just the only game in town where he was growing up, fifteen miles from where I was growing up. If one of the church mothers hadn't been a teacher, or there hadn't been lots of other people from the church willing to help her, there'd likely have been no way to get him into any school at all.

There is NOTHING that will ever address the unequal aspects of our starting positions, and we both know it.

There is NOTHING that will ever address the unequal aspects of his kids' starting positions compared to mine. But truth is, even with as little as has been accomplished they are in fact far less unequal than his to me.

Bottom line, there are only generational solutions to generational problems. There is no prompt redress.

I don't think there is a "prompt" redress either. But the pieces of the redress have to come sooner than 5 generations if we want it to come at all.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't think there is a "prompt" redress either. But the pieces of the redress have to come sooner than 5 generations if we want it to come at all.

The pieces are already in place, at least some of them. The results are going to take time, and truthfully five generations would be pretty fast. I know there's this utopian fantasy where a kid at birth has some uniform "same shot" regardless of what their great grandparents, grandparents, or even their parents did, but it ain't happening. How the depression impacted my grandfather created the bulk of my father's identity, which left a gigantic mark on me that accounts in large part for my kids' views on life. That's how things work. No amount of intervention is changing it.

 

[Estebonrober]

This thing about blacks being more likely to be suspended simply isn't true [1][2]. It's just that black kids misbehave more often. The thing about harsher sentences is also a myth [3]. As for the call back myth, it would seem that black applicants are less qualified than their white counterparts [4]. Look, I've heard all these things before, I just don't think that they stand up to scrutiny

https://www.brookings.edu/research/...ent-discipline-connecting-policy-to-research/

Rebukes 1 and 2 more studies back this think tanks take on the topic. You don;t get to randomly pull out one study and say my study is better. The direction of studies says discrimination is a problem.

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2413&context=articles

Rebukes 3. Again you are picking one study when the majority find otherwise.

I'm not familiar with the call back myth.

Generally your view points are horribly racist (classic definition version) in nature. Good job. You've also given a beautiful example of confirmation bias, you have read up on this and intentionally found what little you could to support your opinion of the argument and stuck with that because it fulfills your view of the world.

 

[Estebonrober]

Over all I think this thread has demonstrated well the difference between actual racism and passive racism. Sure its not going to change minds, but it did show me there is a scale here that important to realize.

Now how to get passive racism to understand that passing the fair housing act and actually enforcing that kind of law is two very different things. That you've done nothing without actual enforcement. Oh and if we could get around this voter suppression/fraud thing. Inter generational wealth will be built, and an actual sense of civic involvement and investiture will be gained and maybe we could make some head way.

 

[Narz]

I don't think there is a "prompt" redress either. But the pieces of the redress have to come sooner than 5 generations if we want it to come at all.

Within 5 generations most people will be mixed-race anyway, assuming there are any humans left.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Within 5 generations most people will be mixed-race anyway, assuming there are any humans left.

Heck, I suspect that most people are mixed race now. Doesn't seem to keep a lot of them from claiming one and hating on the others.

 

[Narz]

Yeah I mean "mixed race" is kind of a goofy expression. Snoop Dogg for instance has Cauc, Mong and Negr in him. If I have any more kids theyll probably be at least a quarter Asian

 

[Berzerker]

my susceptibility to sunburn says I need more brown mixed in

 

[bernie14]

my susceptibility to sunburn says I need more brown mixed in

I used to be able to tan, now a couple of hours and i am boiled lobster

 

[Traitorfish]

While this isn't bad, it certainly is far short of what it would take for African Americans to have an equal opportunity to succeed as white Americans.

They say that the perfect is the enemy of the good.