Random Rants LV: The Joy of Ranting

[Zack]

I fell into the trap of casually walking into an EUIV thread on the PI forums about eurocentrism/technology levels/is Europe or the rest of the world too overpowered/etc. Thankfully, I pulled back in time before it was too late, before I was sucked into the void of darkness.

Regardless of your stance on the issues, even casually browsing through one of those threads is like staring into the darkest pits of humanity, into the very abyss itself.

I heard a legend of a man who once said "Byzantine Empire" in a thread on the PI forums. I would write what happened to him, but doing so would break twenty-four different forum rules.

 

[Truronian]

Two people just knocked on my door asking if 'H' was here. They both smelled of marijuana. I'm wondering if I've broken bad in my sleep.

 

[Joecoolyo]

I fell into the trap of casually walking into an EUIV thread on the PI forums about eurocentrism/technology levels/is Europe or the rest of the world too overpowered/etc. Thankfully, I pulled back in time before it was too late, before I was sucked into the void of darkness.

Regardless of your stance on the issues, even casually browsing through one of those threads is like staring into the darkest pits of humanity, into the very abyss itself.

This was the exact reason I left the Paradox forums

 

[Takhisis]

Whoever's in charge of Argentina's power grid ought to be summarily executed. Freakin' power cuts! (see Comings and goings thread)

If I ever buy a house with a lawn I'm keeping a grazing animal.

Aren't goats in that group that pulls up and eats the roots? There's two different groups of grazing animals. One group leaves a 'mowed lawn' effect, and the other is like a scorched earth policy...

What you need is a guanaco, and you can get fine skins from them after they die.

Two people just knocked on my door asking if 'H' was here. They both smelled of marijuana. I'm wondering if I've broken bad in my sleep.

let's party at Truro's, mate.

 

[The_J]

Two people just knocked on my door asking if 'H' was here. They both smelled of marijuana. I'm wondering if I've broken bad in my sleep.

Sounds like a normal day here ^^.



Took my guts together to go to my neighbour to ask her out for a coffee...well...that was at least the plan if she had been at home. *grml*

Also just wasted one hour debugging a nonsense problem at my father's computer.
It would also be easier to set up a computer remotely if I could install stuff on my own.
Bah .

And the museumsnight yesterday wasn't really good. The science museum was disappointing. Might have something to do with me being a scientist though.

 

[Tee Kay]

I fell into the trap of casually walking into an EUIV thread on the PI forums about eurocentrism/technology levels/is Europe or the rest of the world too overpowered/etc. Thankfully, I pulled back in time before it was too late, before I was sucked into the void of darkness.

Regardless of your stance on the issues, even casually browsing through one of those threads is like staring into the darkest pits of humanity, into the very abyss itself.

Like I said, buncha fascists.

But please regale me with the juicy details.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I heard a legend of a man who once said "Byzantine Empire" in a thread on the PI forums. I would write what happened to him, but doing so would break twenty-four different forum rules.

God save us, I have heard such horrific legends indeed.

This was the exact reason I left the Paradox forums

A wise choice. A wise choice.

 

[Arakhor]

I still frequent the Paradox mod and AAR forums. The incessant drama about X patch breaks all world conquests FOREVER (until Y patch comes out, of course) means I barely ever browse the base EU IV or CK II forums.

 

[Zack]

I still frequent the Paradox mod and AAR forums. The incessant drama about X patch breaks all world conquests FOREVER (until Y patch comes out, of course) means I barely ever browse the base EU IV or CK II forums.

The biggest complaints about CK2 on PI forums:

- "Sunset Invasion is unrealistic! Real Aztecs were filthy primitives!"

- "It's the EASTERN ROMAN empire, god!"

 

[cybrxkhan]

Like I said, buncha fascists.

But please regale me with the juicy details.

Let's see... so I go 3/4 down the first page and I already see mentions of:

- I'm not being Eurocentric... but I am Eurocentric...
- Stormfront
- Political Correctness
- It's EUROPA Universalis
- [reasonable arguments on both sides as to why or why not Europe should or shouldn't have certain bonuses in EUIV that no one cares about]
- Revisionist history
- Post-Colonialism sucks
- Europe > Rest of the World during most of EUIV's timeframe
- Rest of the World > Europe during most of EUIV's timeframe

etc.

That's just part way down the first page, mind you, I didn't bother to see the rest in order to preserve my sanity intact.

EDIT: I did go to the very laast page before the thread was closed, and it basically devolved into insulting each other about how bad their English was.

I still frequent the Paradox mod and AAR forums. The incessant drama about X patch breaks all world conquests FOREVER (until Y patch comes out, of course) means I barely ever browse the base EU IV or CK II forums.

Yeah that's a good policy.

The biggest complaints about CK2 on PI forums:

- "Sunset Invasion is unrealistic! Real Aztecs were filthy primitives!"

- "It's the EASTERN ROMAN empire, god!"

Don't forget complaining about the Med portraits, piss fights about whether or not the devs should or shouldn't be "focusing" on "Europe", etc.

 

[Tee Kay]

We should develop our own game.

With blackjack and hookers better historical representation.

I know a bunch of IT/gaming enthusiasts who are going to be chronically unemployed soon. We could give them something to do.

 

[JohannaK]

Sounds great. Meanwhile, IOT has embarked in a hilariously ahistorical Alexander beat the World EUIV mod.

 

[JohannaK]

Isnt it great when you just cant sleep?

 

[SamSniped]

Isnt it great when you just cant sleep?

That's what IOTchat is for

 

[sophie]

We should develop our own game.

With blackjack and hookers better historical representation.

I know a bunch of IT/gaming enthusiasts who are going to be chronically unemployed soon. We could give them something to do.

I would love to do a historical game in which the primary conflict deals with maintaining the integrity of the state. My biggest problem with the EU games paradox games is that they grant the player absolute and authoritarian control over the state. This isn't accurate. The struggle in any state is motivating the major players of the state to go along with what you want to do. The CK series has probably gotten closest because you have to cede administrative control of provinces to other nobles who may have aspirations of their own which might conflict with your goals.

The other big part of it I would love to see in a game is one which actually portrays time and travel historically. Going back to EU, the biggest advantage you have is that you can see what's going on in all parts of your kingdom/empire at all times. Your capital is in Madrid and you can see everything happening in your colonies in Mexico and Jakarta down to the minute. This is silly from a historical accuracy standpoint. Even in the 16th century it could take months for news to filter just from Brittany to Lyon or Bordeaux. It wasn't until the 17th century that you really get anything bordering on a permanent administrative capital in a European state. Kings traveled around their countries almost endlessly, holding court, hearing cases, dispensing patronage to the local elite, ensuring taxes were being collected properly and with a minimal amount of embezzlement. I would love to see a game do that.

You play the administrative ruler of the kingdom. Just him, you control nobody else directly. You pick administrators to run your provinces. Finding the right administrator can be a difficult task. You need to find someone who is competent and loyal to the king, but at the same time plays nice with the local elite and isn't going to stir up unrest. News needs to arrive to the king for the map of that region for information to become available. Obviously you can station your king closer to a region to get news faster, but that could also but the king in danger. Moreover if the region in question identifies as a different ethnicity or doesn't like the king, stationing yourself closely could cause unrest or harm tax collection efforts. In some provinces autonomy or client-status may be preferable, even if it means you have less direct control. On the other hand, if the province is far-flung the whole region could have been plunged in an uprising or the noble could have taken arms against you without you having the faintest clue until he's already burned through half the territory.

Military management could be interesting likewise, although I don't know how doable it would be, given how AI tends to play out in these games. EU becomes a fairly easy game because you have absolute control over the movement of your armies. You are free to micromanage every piece of every unit to your heart's content. This isn't how things tend to work, historically. Instead you have to appoint generals to run your army. Again, loyalty is important, especially here as you're giving a potential upstart a sword with which to behead you. But you also want competence. You could put in a sycophant, but maybe they're just good dancers/court men and know nothing of combat and loyally piss your armies away. Maybe they're unfair disciplinarians and your whole army revolts on their watch. You can set general goals for your generals, but the day-to-day management of troop movements, tactics, and recruitment are left up to them. Meanwhile, again you're stuck relying on news to filter in to know if your attacks are succeeding. You can personally take command of the army to a) control the movements of your army yourself, and b) gain much better vision over how the war fares, but it comes with the caveat that you are exposing yourself to risk via death in battle or from disease, and the added drawback that news from elsewhere takes longer to filter in and you have looser control over your dominions and there is a greater risk of revolt or dissent in the ranks.

An idea like this may be beyond current technology and I don't know how much of a market there would be for such a game. Most people like being able to pain continents in their color, and a game like this would make simply uniting Germany or Italy, or Hispania, or simply keeping England or France together a monumental task. I would personally love to be able to do something like this, though. To show, through game form, just how monumentally difficult and how incredibly powerless rulers were in this time period.

 

[Phrossack]

shtuff

I started a thread for just these sorts of suggestions a while ago, actually. I typed up a big long reply to your post there.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Let's see... so I go 3/4 down the first page and I already see mentions of:

- I'm not being Eurocentric... but I am Eurocentric...
- Stormfront
- Political Correctness
- It's EUROPA Universalis
- [reasonable arguments on both sides as to why or why not Europe should or shouldn't have certain bonuses in EUIV that no one cares about]
- Revisionist history
- Post-Colonialism sucks
- Europe > Rest of the World during most of EUIV's timeframe
- Rest of the World > Europe during most of EUIV's timeframe

etc.

That's just part way down the first page, mind you, I didn't bother to see the rest in order to preserve my sanity intact.

EDIT: I did go to the very laast page before the thread was closed, and it basically devolved into insulting each other about how bad their English was.




Yeah that's a good policy.




Don't forget complaining about the Med portraits, piss fights about whether or not the devs should or shouldn't be "focusing" on "Europe", etc.

You forgot people on the EUIV complaining about France/Rebels/Spanish/Portugal Siberia. That happens alot of time.

 

[cybrxkhan]

You forgot people on the EUIV complaining about France/Rebels/Spanish/Portugal Siberia. That happens alot of time.

Ah, the legendary big blue blob. Never forget. My brother had a wonderful experience as vietnam in EUIII at one of the 16th century start dates where he got steamrolled by those cheese eating surrender conquer monkeys.


Also, this makes me wonder how ugly the HOI threads get, especially considering, well, Nazis have to be in it, and the divine law of reality that the longer a ugly Internet fist fight lasts the higher the chances that Nazis or Hitler will be mentioned.

 

[Tee Kay]

I feel really stupid.

What a horrible day.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Ah, the legendary big blue blob. Never forget. My brother had a wonderful experience as vietnam in EUIII at one of the 16th century start dates where he got steamrolled by those cheese eating surrender conquer monkeys.


Also, this makes me wonder how ugly the HOI threads get, especially considering, well, Nazis have to be in it, and the divine law of reality that the longer a ugly Internet fist fight lasts the higher the chances that Nazis or Hitler will be mentioned.

pro-tip: always start in Grand Campaign; all the others are more or less railroaded.