Rat 24 - AWE Training Game

Greebley · Aug 28, 2007

Definitely agree with ThERat on the final point. Filling an army with only 3 units is important. We won't get to transports this game, so all armies with 4 units will be defensive only after we conquer our continent.

It is hard to estimate how much money we will use getting to Mil Trad/Steam (at least for me). It would probably be worthwhile to see how much we do have when we get to Mil Trad for if we were able estimate it better, we could decide how much we could spend now.

Othniel · Aug 28, 2007

Turnset is done.

Summary:
- Razed most of the remaining Korean cities--> They have 3 left
- Got an MGL and rushed the Heroic Epic in Gano
- Researched Guns, Chemistry, and Metallurgy is due in 4 turns
- Contacted Sumeria via suicide galley and DoWed them
- Discovered Spain has a 1-tile island city so they can't be wiped out until Marines :sad:

- Rushed a few galleys but mostly left our gold stockpiled

The suicide galleys were pretty successful getting across the ocean, and we currently have one circumnavigating Sumeria's continent. It looks like Sumeria has been whupping up on the Ottomans, so I expect we'll find the remnants of the Ottomans plus the Greeks somewhere on that landmass.

Unfortunately, Sumeria was at tech parity with us, and they are the current AI leader in score! As such, I really don't expect many more free techs out of the GLib unless the Greeks are researching well. With that in mind, I pushed ahead our research toward Military Tradition. We're actually doing 4-5 turn research and not even running that big of a deficit.

If we get to Military Tradition and find out the AI is still lagging, I definitely vote to blitz for Magnetism even though it will obsolete the GLib. At the same time, I think we should continue to get contacts with the galleys in case the Greeks can help give us something free for the GLib.

We have over 5700+gp right now--plenty enough to get us to Rails.

State of the Empire:
The workers were pretty scattered around and not working in important spots. I've attempted to move them more to the core and get the jungles cleared, etc. but it's still a little haphazard.

I did concentrate the core on build infrastructure. We have plenty of units to kill off Korea and it'll be a while before we have the techs to do trans-ocean invasions.

Many Libraries and some Markets were/are being self-built. The Markets are helpful because they're allowing more citizens to work, generating more science beakers and gpt. Also, we're not needing to run 100% science right now...The Libraries' purposes are straight-forward, of course.

I sold a few improvements that had been built in overly-corrupt locations. I changed most of the corrupt city builds to workers/settlers. Workers are needed to improve everything and rail quickly, settlers for filling in all the gaps.

Are we allowed in the AW varient to ICS specialist farms? I placed the new cities in a cxxc manner because I was unsure, but it'd be nice to know...

Do we want to build Leo's? I tend to say no, but just throwing it out there...

Warfare:
As I said above, Spain is located on the 1-tile island and the only way to eliminate them before Marines is to sign a peace deal and get that city in return--and I believe that signing peace is against the variant. So, we're saddled with Spain's presence until we get Marines...Tough break.

If Madrid flips again, I say raze it. The Great Wall is going to be obsolete very soon anyway.

Korea will be eliminated in 2-3 turns max. I razed most of their cities because of flip-risk, but we should keep all their remaining cities.

I've grouped a bunch of extraneous units near Centralia as a kind of military depot.

We have a few Knights scattered around as roaming defenders, plus a few spear/pike MPs in the cities that need happy faces.

Rat Falls and Greebley River are building galleys in anticipation of upgrades to Galleons.

<<Here's>> the Save

Turn Log:

Spoiler :

Some screenies:

Ansar · Aug 28, 2007

Othniel said:
Centralia is good simply because it's central. The Palace, IMO, is better used as a corruption-reducer for the surrounding cities rather than trying to just build a super-city in a great spot.

ThERat said:
As for the palace jump, there is no need to do that again. Korea's land will be perfect for our science farms. The current location is good as it supports ex-England and maybe even Ex-Sapin to a certain extent. If we would shift that towards Korea, the balance will go towards the west and I think we don;t really profit from that.

Thanks for telling me why the palace is where it is.

ThERat · Aug 28, 2007

great progress :goodjob:

I would keep the remainder of the Korean cites. Too bad about that Spanish 1 tiler.

As for research, I am surprised we can research that fast, this is great. I would go and research full speed regardless of what we get from the Glib. No point waiting as the other continent has Sumeria that has the potential to run away.

I would have actually formed a 3 knight army instead of the HE and handbuilt that. Let's hope we can get an army before we start to invade. It looks as if we can reach those Spanish cities way south with caravels. Let's wait for that.

As for the Roster, I know Greebley is up in the other big game, why don't we just follow the roster from Othniel onwards as everyone should be back by now. Is this ok?

The Roster:
Greebley
ansar
Othniel - just played
ThERat - up
TheOverseer714 - on deck
gmaharriet - on vacation until 31st August

ThERat · Aug 28, 2007

As for wonders, I consider a few wonders very nice to have. These are pyramids, GLib, Sun Tzu, ToE and Smiths. We already have free granaries and barracks on our continent, Smiths would add more free stuff, if we can afford the delay in researching this optional tech.

As for Newton's etc, they are nice to have but not really necessary as our strength doesn't stem from just a few cities anyway.

Othniel · Aug 28, 2007

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the Heroic Epic thing either. The fastest any city could currently build it was 19 turns, so that might have been the better option. I was gambling that we'd have enough remaining combat with Korea to make the increased leader chance pay off. So far it hasn't...

Anyhow, we do have plenty of armies until we make an invasion on the Sumerian continent. In any event, I wouldn't make any more knight armies with Cavalry just ~10 turns away.

Also, Rat, does what you wrote about wonders mean you too think we should avoid building Leo's?

The roster order sounds fine.

ThERat · Aug 28, 2007

Also, Rat, does what you wrote about wonders mean you too think we should avoid building Leo's?

I didn't know Leo's is still avaliable, is it? I thought invention has been around for a while and thus, maybe Sumer built it alreadyl. If that is not the case, we might want to build it...

Othniel · Aug 28, 2007

It hasn't been built.

TheOverseer714 · Aug 28, 2007

I think the Korean City with Sun Tzu's definitely should not be razed. The others, I don't care about. Leo's with Sun Tzu's is like Robin with Batman. Batman is good, Batman and Robin is better. I say build Leos in Greebley River or Centralia, and if someone else gets it, use those shields for maybe Smith's or Newtons. Greebley would be better, as you could switch to Palace and not lose the shields. Just my 2 Lira.

Ansar · Aug 28, 2007

TheOverseer714 said:
I think the Korean City with Sun Tzu's definitely should not be razed. The others, I don't care about. Leo's with Sun Tzu's is like Robin with Batman. Batman is good, Batman and Robin is better. I say build Leos in Greebley River or Centralia, and if someone else gets it, use those shields for maybe Smith's or Newtons. Greebley would be better, as you could switch to Palace and not lose the shields. Just my 2 Lira.

You're from Turkey? Awesome!

I doubt we even thought of razing Sun Tzu city.

You should know, though, that Robin insn't exactly very useful on his own though (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1sfMQE_feg).

Nah, just kidding. Leo's would be great. Maybe we could do a mass Knight rush? :gold:

Btw, concerning the new continent, are we gonna do one of those beachheads where we settle on a hill with a bunch of units and artillery?

TheOverseer714 · Aug 28, 2007

Not Turkish! Actually I think Lira is Italian money, the Turks have.......drachma, I think. Yeah, Robin is mostly useless, but he's alot better with Batman. Read Sun Tzu's=Batman, Leo's=Robin. The Pyramids would be Superman

ThERat · Aug 28, 2007

We're not going to raze any of the 3 remaining Korean cities anyway. That would just be a waste.

Btw, concerning the new continent, are we gonna do one of those beachheads where we settle on a hill with a bunch of units and artillery?

First, we need to have more information about the land there and thanks to those suicide galleys, we should be able to get some good recon. I would love to drop units on a mountain. A good strategy for example is to drop units first (e.g. rifles with cavs), then next turn drop a half filled army that can then be filled completely with the previously landed units

Ansar · Aug 28, 2007

TheOverseer714 said:
Not Turkish! Actually I think Lira is Italian money, the Turks have.......drachma, I think.

Wikipedia says it is Turkish.

[wiki]Lira[/wiki]

TheOverseer714 said:
Yeah, Robin is mostly useless, but he's alot better with Batman. Read Sun Tzu's=Batman, Leo's=Robin. The Pyramids would be Superman

Well, then, this Superman doesn't have Kryptonite.

Aabraxan · Aug 28, 2007

Before the Euro was introduced, Italy used Lira, too.

ThERat · Aug 29, 2007

save

Pre-Turn
the SOD we have is pretty impressive and we will conquer Korea very fast, I guess
thus, we can make sure to get a lot of infra up in the core
MM a little and swap Rat's Fall to a settler since it can't grow any longer
I can't see any shield rich city really and thus, swap capital to Leo's
swap Greebley River to knights templar as well

IT Korea actually attacks some loose units we have and lose a knight but defeat a spear with a treb

1.810AD
defeat that LB, but don't get a leader
suicide galleys moves east and I get a shock

well, it seems that Ottomans have been the victim of Sumers...2 mere cities left and really 'advanced' :lol:

declare war

IT well, one galley gets sunk, the other gets defeated, so much about our fleet
I guess we will wait for caravels before doing anything
Korea starts knights templar, when they have a mere 3 cities left

2.820AD
our SOD redlines 4 units at Ulsan, maybe we can leader fish
only problem is that we have no elite units nearby, use armies and then elite spear to attack
well, the elite spear wins and takes Ulsan, but no MGL. We now own Sun Tzu
income immediately goes up by 20gpt

capture of Ulsan enables us to attack Nampo with knight army to take out the top musket
sword army finishes off a pike and we capture that city as well

finally attack Pyongsong with sword army and 2 MW and capture city

join a worker into our capital and found St. Regis

3.830AD
the entire Korean resistance has been quelled due to heavy garrison in the IT

decrease science since metal is due next turn

IT next is Mil Trad due in 4 at 90% science

4. 840AD
Sumer knows education now, better for us as this will make it cheaper
they are short of chemistry still

5.850AD
zzz

IT our last galley defeats a Spanish galley on defense

6.860AD
Greebley's River is at 15cpt now after mining all the irrigated tiles
found Not so Central nex to our ex-capital

7.870AD
this is not feeling so AW like at the moment but that will change in the future turn sets
lower science to 60%

MM all the grown cities for more scientists, 50% science now and we make 148gpt

IT Mil Trad is in, edu in 4 at 40% science, quite amazing

8.880AD
zzz

IT Greece actually finishes Leo's and Sumer cascades to Knights templar

9.890AD
swap capital to Mil Academy and Greebley's River to palace prebuild

10.900AD
Spain and Sumer have education :crazyeye:

we can switch off science for a turn
I fire all scientists for a turn and we make 516gpt

Since we did not get Leo's, I upgrade a few knights

As for the tech path, I suggest to go for astro first to build caravels to take out nearby Spain
then quickly divert to banking and economics for Smiths
After that we head for magnetism and then steam for rails

we have our armies scattered around strategically for the first landings. Once we have established where the AI will land, we can shift our defenses there and try and leader fish
We do have some trebs in Ulsan and nearby

We also still have some land to claim as settler production is a little slow

Though the turns might be a little boring until we get our first few caravels out, I would like the next player to MM every second turn at last as
the governor tends to assign new citizens for shields and not for high food for fast growth and science farming
Please also do reassign all taxmen into scientists immediately next turn

ThERat · Aug 29, 2007

The Roster:
Greebley
ansar
Othniel
ThERat
TheOverseer714 - up
gmaharriet - on vacation until 31st August, on deck

Greebley · Aug 29, 2007

There is one trick I would like to test if the opportunity comes up. The AI tends not to attack armies on mountains especially on mountains. However, what would happen if we built an outpost on it? Could we then defend with an army in mountain terrain?

Note that the alternative is to build a city on a hill which will be attacked and rush walls which also doubles defense - this is actually better because units heal 50%. This is why I still don't know if the outpost would work, one wants to choose the town when possible.

Since I haven't had a game where the outpost idea made sense to test - if the mountain is more reasonable than a hill landing spot and we have a size 3 army to test with, then I would like to try it out. Its a bit of a long shot - the town is usually best, but I thought I would mention it just in case.

TheOverseer714 · Aug 29, 2007

This is my "got it" post. I may not be able to play it tonight, though it would mostly be science and infra-building, which is easier to document. Something rarely seen in an AW game, apparently. This might even be boring

ThERat · Aug 29, 2007

Take your time as gma is not in until a few days later anyway...and I would like to stick to our original Roster from now.

By the way, my tech path suggestion is only a suggestion. If we feel we can slot in physics -> magnetism before heading for banking/economics, we should do so.

I am pretty sure we can easily sustain 4 turn research until hitting the IA. If we nurture and grow our science farms properly, we might even be able to have very fast research during the IA.

By the way, our capital is building the Mil Academy and with that, we can cash rush armies if we need a Cav army for the initial landing. I wouldn't mind spending 1k+ for an army since we are loaded with cash.

As for infra, with education, we might want to build a few universities where beakers are really high, but not for the rest of the cities. London with it's Colossus has a very high beaker output. I would build both a uni and bank in there.

Othniel · Aug 30, 2007

Please skip me again until September 5th if my turn is up. Another trip just came about...

Rat 24 - AWE Training Game

Deity

fighting for Achsah

Détente avec l'été

Deity

Deity

fighting for Achsah

Deity

fighting for Achsah

Overseer

Détente avec l'été

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Deity

Deity

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