Rat 24 - AWE Training Game

I managed to play my turnset yesterday, but will post only tonight.

Highlights: we are now the proud owners of the Statue of Zeus and have jumped the palace which really boosted our income and production...
 
save

Pre-Turn
MM as described before, income now 129gpt since lux is at 10%. We should be able to expand and take out the Spanish soon
move out 2 sword armies to go after Toledo.

1.510AD
Korea has invention now
Take out Toledo after defeating 2 pikes there, Spain has no more horses and iron :dance:
take out Acav there as well with 2nd army

IT Koreans are going after Gano, Spain sends a knight within range of Tsingtao

2.520AD
bombard a pike and knight to 1hp each near Gewauga and finally get a MGL there to rush palace

Rat24520.jpg


take out the knight as well
swap Centralia to mace though we will lose some shields
move armies towards Barcelona, rush settler in Tsingtao to claim iron/horses before the other resettle there

at Gano, bomb 4 attackers and take out 1 mace, leave the rest alone
move sword army towards Taejon, MW army north to tackle that remaining Korean city there

found Silk City in the north

IT see 2 settler pairs running towards ex Toledo, Rat Falls gets a market, all the better with 4 luxes
Greebley River gets a harbor

3.530AD
Spain and Korea both know Theology and invention now

rush palace in Centralia, just to see the effect, we now make 170gpt
attack Taejon, removing 2 spears, but a LB left inside

attack Barcelona and there is only 1 defender inside

Rat24530.jpg


thus, use 2nd army to take out that Korean settler pair and then move army south
move settler into position

take out spear next to Gano

IT we get invention and theology as expected

4. 540AD
palace jump results in jump of 30gpt

found Spanish Horses, take out 2 spears and a LB and Paegam is ours
we need a harbor there to connect ivory to get ACav's, but we can't rush it yet

take out a pike and 2 maces in Taejo, but I refrain from taking the city as there are 3 knights and 1 LB next to it

start to attack Santiago, but wound sword army quite a bit
other army vacates Barca due to th flip risk

IT suddenly Korea attacks the army stack next to Taejon, but since a knight became top defender as army is yellow, it's fin
our knight actually wins

5.550AD
tough it costs 234gold, rush harbor in Paegam, we might get ACav's then and reduce lux to 0%

take out 2 spears and raze Santiago, army is red but since no enemy units are anywhere close, it should be fine

IT it seems as if the Koreans are shifting their targets south and the knight move away from Gano
:eek: of all places, Manpo in the far north deposes us, that flips risk must have been marginal

6.560AD
luckily our MW's can take out 2 spears to take that city back

move a pike into Barcelona, that enables 1 sword army to move on to Hyangsang to start attacking, taking out 1 pike
other armies heal this turn

IT this can get tricky as the first knight appears at Barcelona, but we get our first ACav there as compensation

7.570AD
decide to use not fully healed army to attack and take out that knight, I would really like to keep Barcelona
send our first ACav to take out Spanish settler pair for more slaves

in the north, we take out a Korean settler pair near our Ivory city
Taejon is a tough nut to crack, but after beating 2 pikes and a LB, we take town
army redline and a mace is nearby, cover army with pike and hit mace with some cat

IT Korean mace decide to attack Taejon and loses against 2 hp knight after redlining it
our former capital gets a court
Barca deposes us :cry: we lose the pike in there

8.580AD
well, our MW next to it gets the city back ;)
2 irritating pikes are in between Barcelona and Spanish Horses, bomb them and take them out
get a settler there to close the gap
decide to shift our MW army south to help with Barcelona and taking care of the Spanish remaining cities

take out another pike at Hyangsan, but wound army yet again

IT Koreans are back near Gano, that's better, I rather they put their units into inaccessible terrain than the south
Spain lands a spear next to Liverpool

9.590AD
found Spanish corridor
found Peninsula on the way to connect the ivory town

attack Hyangsan and redline both sword armies, but take the town, keep it for a turn so we can retreat next turn

IT Korea's knight turn around once more probably to go after Hyangsan
London gets a court boosting our income

10.600AD
move both redlined armies back into Spanish corridor, by the way, Korea is without iron now, no more knights for them

found Tundra

place MW army next to Barcelona, once our sword armies are back online, we should go after the remainder of Spain
they only have 6 cities left and Korea 9, so both should crumble soon. A knight army would be nice and Greebley River could maybe
hand build the HE

we make 269gpt now
we are about to get more infra and can churn out more units.

our western land now, remember not to park an army inside Barca, flip risk too high. I actually starve the city down to minimize the risk

Rat24600.jpg
 
The Roster:
Greebley - out from 15th to 27th August and on deck
ansar
Othniel - on vacation from 15th to 25th August
ThERat
TheOverseer714 - up
gmaharriet - on vacation until 31st August
 
Got the save. Looks very good, :thumbsup: Rat. I see we had some flips this turn-set, looks like I might just raze any cities I capture, unless theres any objections. I won't raze if any useful wonders are present, of course. I see that Gano is still a magnet for enemy units, I wonder why they want such a useless town so bad? It has no resources, surrounded by mountains, and is a strategic nightmare to defend. Guess theres no limit to Artificial Stupidity.:rolleyes: I will play it either today or tomorrow, depending on my work schedule and whether my terminal is fixed or not.
 
Rat, I'm having trouble with your saves, my CivComplete says they are invalid. Do you have lots of mods installed? I wonder if someone else downloaded them and then sent them to me to see if it might help.
 
Overseer - I didn't have any trouble with it. :confused:

Here is one saved by me: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/59067/Rat24_AD600.SAV

Group - I found several spots we can fill in for that Unit Support we can't stop having enough of ! :)
Spoiler :
Rat24_5.JPG


Several spots here in the ex-Korean/Spanish lands.

The yellow triangles indicate Korean towns based on the culture borders.
Arrows is what I assume to be the Korean unit path.

Rat24_6.JPG


Simple enough. Send the settler to the pink circle.

Rat24_7.JPG


I don't know if we want the settler to be able to eventually grab the whale or not. Whatever next player thinks it's best. I don't really care for either. - as in, either would be fine by me. ;)

Rat24_8.JPG


In the deep frozen north of the Iroquois land, we have one more spot we can fit in! :snowcool:

Rat24_9.JPG


We could fill in that spot. It would be able to at least use that grassland tile + that plains tile. It could also use the coast. (It's mainly for unit support, but hey, it's not like it's a tundra town :p)
 
I got it. I had to add a comma between Rat 24 and the 600 AD. Weird:rolleyes: I will have to play it tomorrow, as I'm out of time tonight.
 
I have finished my turns. Highlights are, we have the Great Wall and the Oracle. We now have a knight army, got an MGL [party] Barcelona is finally a lesser flip risk, with just one Spanish citizen. Madrid is high risk still. Korea has Sun Tzu's and Muskets now, so they are becoming a pain:mad: Here is my turn-log:
Spoiler :
Pre-flight check: All programs up and running. Spain is browning nicely, which they will soon be toast :D Do some switching of builds to my suiting.
Non combat:
Workers 14, 57 slaves
Settlers 1
Military:
Warriors 5
Archers 7
Spears 9
Swords 16
Pikemen 17
Knights 3
Catapults 4
Mounted Warriors 11
Medieval Infantry 14
Trebuchets 16
Armies 4(3 swords, 1 Mounted Warrior)
Ancient Cavalry 1

Press enter=>

IBT: Korean vLongbow attacks our vPike on mountain near Gano, our guy wins(3/4hp). Nottingham worker=>wealth, Sealant knight=>knight, Gano Walls=>trebuchet,
610 AD: Trebs go (4-0) at Gano, vMDI vs Korean (1/3hp)LB, wins clean, promotes(2-0)
IBT: Barcelona deposes yet again, taking a *MDI with it, I’m leaving it empty when I take it back, this is ridiculous! Silk City worker=>worker Nanking Aqueduct=>Marketplace Nevertheless Marketplace=>knight, Caugnawaga pikeman=>pikeman Korea begins KT.
620 AD: Trebs go (3-3) at Gano. eMDI vs Korean (2/3hp) rKnight, wins (4/5hp) Trebs (0-2) at Barcelona, 1st MW goes 3-0 vs 1 rAC, 2 rSpears (13/18hp), bring yellow 3rd Swords up to take out vKnight(7-0)
IBT: Korean rLb and rMDI suicide on our pikeman on mountain near Gano. Othniel’s, Knight=>Knight, Chengdu Marketplace=>knight, Gap-Filler Harbor=>Marketplace. Korea builds Sun-Tzu’s:dance:
630 AD: eMDI vs Korean rKnight, wins(1/5hp), eMW vs Korean(1/3hp) LB, wins (4/5hp), 2nd Swords vs Korean vKnight, wins (14/18hp) (12-0)
IBT: vKnight on Mountain survives suicidal Korean vKnight, retreats from rLB Beijing knight=>Marketplace, Gmawanda Aqueduct=>Courthouse, Chondote Aqueduct=>pikeman. Our people want to add to our palace, I add a front porch.
640 AD: Founded Horses Ask on peninsula =>Harbor, vKnight vs 1/3hp Korean Knight, wins(2/4hp)(14-0) Change Beijing and Caugnawaga to settlers.
IBT: Korean vLB takes out our 2/4hp Knight for my first loss this round:( Rat Falls Courthouse=>knight, Xinjiang settler=>settler, Centralia Marketplace=>Temple, Greebley Heights trebuchet=> trebuchet.
650 AD: vKnight vs Spanish vLB wins clean, promotes. eMDI vs Korean¼ hp LB wins, (4/5hp).(16-1)
IBT: Oops! A Korean Knight captures empty Barcelona. York knight=>Marketplace, Paegam worker=>worker
660 AD: Trebs at Barcelona go (3-2), eKnight vs 1/4hp Korean Knight nets us an MGL! 1st Swords take out 2 rPikes in Madrid losing 5hp, vMW vs rPike, wins clean. eKnight vs Spanish rLB wins clean.(21-1)
IBT: lose exposed vKnight to Korean vKnight for my second loss:( Greebley River knight=>Courthouse, Caugnawaga settler=>Marketplace, Peninsula worker>worker.
670 AD: eKnight vs Korean eKnight wins 4/5hp, at Madrid 1st Swords take out 2 more rPikes now 9/18hp, vMw retreats vs rPike, vAC vs rPike goes 2/4hp to take Madrid. We now have the Great Wall. New rAC from Barcelona vs vLB wins, is promoted 4/5hp(26-2)
IBT: Barcelona worker=>trebuchet, Tsingtao settler=>worker. Our people wish to add to our palace, I add towers.
680 AD: Moved some settlers into place
IBT: Overseer’s knight=>knight, Chondote pikeman=>Harbor, English Core settler=>settler,
690 AD: MW army vs Korean vMusket wins, 14/18hp. 3/4hp rAC vs Spanish vLB wins clean. (28-2) Founded Smokin’ Hot=>worker
IBT: Aabra’s Folly Courthouse=>trebuchet, Tundra worker=>trebuchet, Othniel’s knight=>knight, Nevertheless knight=>knight, Sealant Marketplace=>knight.
700 AD: Founded Iron Mountain=>worker. 1st Knights take out Korean vPike, (29-2)

I went (29-2) 1 leader from the 6 or 7 elite battles. Our military has:
Non combat:
Workers 19 native, 60 slaves
Settlers 3
Military:
Warriors 5
Archers 7
Spears 9
Swords 16
Pikemen 19
Knights 9
Catapults 4
Mounted Warriors 11
Medieval Infantry 13
Trebuchets 17
Armies 5(3 Swords, 1 Mounted Warrior, 1 Knight)
Ancient Cavalry 2


Here are some screenshots:

Last, but most important, the save:
 
excellent work :goodjob:

I would starve down Madrid as well. From the picture it appears as if Spain has some offshore settlement. This will complicate matters a little.
Let's go after Korea now as they are the remaining threat on our continent. With Sun Tzu in our hands later on, we have a nice added advantage and will save a lot of cash.
We will have pyramids and Sun Tzu, that couldn't be better :D

I am also thinking about research. Should we start some more libraries in our core and actually go after gunpowder ourselves? I doubt Spain will contribute much and I think in order not to fall behind, we should go for Cavalry now and then head for astronomy to start thinking about the overseas invasion. We have so much cash, we can easily go for 100% research

The Roster:
Greebley - out until 27th August and up
ansar
Othniel - on vacation from 15th to 25th August
ThERat
TheOverseer714
gmaharriet - on vacation until 31st August
 
I was debating whether to get research going soon because the GLib will be obsolete as soon as 2 AI civs learn Education. We could hope Spain gets gunpowder just so we get that free, but we may not want to wait. I agree that it is time to go after Korea, I was stuck playing defense too much to pursue that. I believe Spain has more iron, I saw too many pikes at Madrid.
 
I believe Spain has more iron, I saw too many pikes at Madrid.
You can actually check whether they still have iron. This game has no restrictions on recon. We are allowed to check resources, luxes and number of cities as well as techs.
I think they piled up those pikes while they still had iron.
 
I'm back from vacation. :cool:

I see I have some catch-up reading before I'll dare to comment more...
 
btw, if either of you, Othniel or ansar, wants to take a shot, I think it's ok with Greebley as he is up in another game anywya
 
I can take this on tonight if ansar doesn't want it (According to the roster, ansar is up ahead of me).

I definitely vote for 100% science toward Military Tradition. Getting 1 more free tech from the GLib seems like a bad trade compared to very possibly slowing our advance. We have plenty of cash for a long deficit run.

Speaking of the cash, does anyone mind if I use some of it to rush markets/libraries? I prefer to have both in core cities--speed research and then recoup plenty of gpt when research can be turned down right before a tech is discovered. The happy faces are a bonus, too.

So, just to make sure I have our overall goals straight:
- Exterminate Korea and Spain from the mainland and any islands
- Prepare for a overseas invasion, prompting the need for some boats

In fact, why don't we pop out some boats ASAP and get some contacts? Yep, we'd have to declare war, but we're going to anyways and everyone knows that the AI is horrible at overseas invasions--no threat there. Moreover, that would mean a decent chance at getting some immediate techs from the GLib. Downside, we may miss out on some upper-tier techs we would get if we waited for GLib contacts. Anyhow, I'm at least initially liking the idea of more contacts...

Anything major I'm missing?
 
your plans sounds fine, however, I think boats won't get us more contacts for now as we can only build some galleys.

It would be nice to be able to eliminate Korea, we could keep their core cities as well and fill some gaps and then concentrate on infra. I wouldn't rush too much, the money spent on deficit research will pay itself.

The Roster:
Greebley - on deck
ansar
Othniel - up, swap with Greebley
ThERat
TheOverseer714
gmaharriet - on vacation until 31st August
 
your plans sounds fine, however, I think boats won't get us more contacts for now as we can only build some galleys.

It would be nice to be able to eliminate Korea, we could keep their core cities as well and fill some gaps and then concentrate on infra. I wouldn't rush too much, the money spent on deficit research will pay itself.

I intend to do suicide galley runs unless someone objects. I think contacts have high value right now.

Re City Spacing, we're avoiding cxc even in highly corrupt areas, right?

Also, why not rush stuff en masse? The cash is doing us no good besides waiting to be used for deficit research, and IMO we have more then enough cash to fund research for a very long time. So, perhaps it costs more to rush than will be returned in immediate research cost savings, but in the long-run I think it'll pay-off better than not using the cash at all.
 
School is going tough right now - the school mandates that teachers give out plenty of homework every night to keep the students academically challenged. :gripe: :cry:

Btw, I know it probably isn't a good idea, but the Korean lands look real nice. All those grasslands... (second Palace jump?) TBH, our current location, Centralia, wasn't my favorite and doesen't look very ideal. Or am I not seeing the good things about Centralia's location?
 
I would only rush Markets for happiness reasons. We are going to run 100% science for a long time. The extra gold will be useless.

What I would do is for a city that is unhappy and needs a scientist, then see if rushing the Market gives us enough shields to get a unit faster. So if we are at 9 shields then a Market would get to 10 which is worthwhile. If at 10 then it won't help. This would be the only case to rush a Market IMO - most cities you won't need to.

For rushing libraries, well a city that benefits sufficiently from a library can also build the library very quickly. I don't usually think it is cost effective to rush.

I think high research is useful until rails (if the game lasts long enough). Rails have a huge benefit. Do we have sufficient funds to run 100% science to rails? Do we have enough to upgrade units?

In general, though I find cash rushing not really worth it - the cost is too high Unit upgrades are a better use.

Also getting more shields basically means more units (you only build 1 of each building so the extra shields mean an extra unit in the longer term), but I often find I have enough units for the given point of the game.

BTW, rushing certain key buildings - barracks so an army can heal, or walls if under attack is worth it IMO.
 
Centralia, wasn't my favorite and doesen't look very ideal. Or am I not seeing the good things about Centralia's location?

Centralia is good simply because it's central. The Palace, IMO, is better used as a corruption-reducer for the surrounding cities rather than trying to just build a super-city in a great spot.

Re Cash Rushing
, I can see I'm at disagreement with our trainers, so I'll let it go for this game. :)

That said, I personally find cash-rushing to be more than worthwhile.

Rushing Markets is good because running "100% science" is really a misnomer. When a tech gets down to 1-2 turns from completion, turning down the science slider normally results in enough extra market-caused gpt to pay the maintenance costs and possibly more for the many turns of true 100% science. Later on in the game, 100% science can be rare and the happy faces/gpt of markets is huge.

For Libraries, even though cities that need it usually are indeed capable of self-building it, cash rushing the improvement means it can be used during the extra turns needed for self-building.

I understand the importance of Unit upgrades and deficit research and agree that they deserve first priority on our money. But I have serious doubts that we'll really need 7000+ gp for deficit research and unit upgrades, considering that we haven't gone the way of disconnect/mass upgrades. Plus, our cash reserve is not static; it's constantly fluctuating, and currently it's expanding very quickly...

Really, I'm just advocating using the "extra" gp that otherwise normally just gets hoarded in a big pile and never used for anything. Any return on the money is better than zero ROI. The game doesn't give brownie points for ending the game flush with cash, so I'm of the persuasion to run as close to a $0 treasury as possible while still funding everything critical.
 
currently we are lucky that we could expand very quickly and unit support is minimal. That's why we can easily afford 100% research. Once we get more units, this would change again.

As for the palace jump, there is no need to do that again. Korea's land will be perfect for our science farms. The current location is good as it supports ex-England and maybe even Ex-Sapin to a certain extent. If we would shift that towards Korea, the balance will go towards the west and I think we don;t really profit from that.

As for suicide galleys, I am not sure whether that is really beneficial. I am sure that the AI will find us with their caravels sooner or later as we will go after Mil Tradition now. We can only stage overseas invasions after getting galleons anyway.
By the way, as stated before, I would fill armies with only 3 units from now on so that we can ship those overseas and stage invasions with galleons rather than with transports.
 
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