RB1 - Cuban Isolationists

I have no clue if the food deficit made a difference in getting the Oracle, but I wasn't in the mood to take chances either. Those extra shields + Organized Religion made a huge difference (7 turns instead of 13 - almost doubled the speed!) Here's the zoomed out map of our civ at the moment:

RB1-600BC.jpg


Email file sent to Sirian. Have fun with it! :)
 
Two little comments, just like that...

- It's amazing the number of things you can do in this game with just a couple of cities relying on a small bunch of terrain improvements... :crazyeye: Does the game feel well paced, compared to Civ3 ?

- I'm going to sulk if you two don't grab Taoism and Islam... :D
 
kryszcztov said:
Two little comments, just like that...

- It's amazing the number of things you can do in this game with just a couple of cities relying on a small bunch of terrain improvements... :crazyeye: Does the game feel well paced, compared to Civ3 ?

- I'm going to sulk if you two don't grab Taoism and Islam... :D

You may have to sulk! We're out of tricks. Oracle is a one-off move, no second chance. Using the first Leader on a religion could be done again, but it normally takes TWO of them to grab Divine Right. We instead need to begin to focus on making our existing religions dominant, starting by using our next three Prophets on the shrines in Havana (and speeding along the generation of even more Prophets!)

If one of the AIs is willing to bend everything he's got to chase one of the two remaining religions, he will get one.

We, meanwhile, need to get going on some other priorities. :)

Oh, look, I'm Up Now! :hammer:


- Sirian
 
"We, meanwhile, need to get going on some other priorities."

What else could possibly matter but getting religions, religions, RELIGIONS!

:crazyeye:

-Jester
 
600BC: Worker at Havana switched to Archer. (Rationale? Pottery due in three turns! Archer will finish in three turns. ... You'll see why.)

575BC: Confucianism (from Oracle) founds in Santa Rosa. I send the missionary to the capital (although with four religions already present, he may have a tough time getting folks to listen!)

Swap state religion to Christianity.

525BC: Discover Pottery, start Sailing. Archer trains in Havana, start GRANARY. Swap to Granary in all cities.

475BC: Our mission to Havana FAILS. The folks there, already content to worship the Hydra, were disinterested in the latest fads. :eek:

rb1-34.jpg


Yes folks, it becomes increasingly difficult to spread religion, the more religions already present in a city. NO chance of failure if the city has no faiths, but more and more chance, the more faiths already present. I've gotten all seven religions to spread to a city on several occasions, but typically, four or five is a more practical ceiling. If you are running a multireligious strategy for extra happiness, you may tend to push harder at cities with richer food sources. Slow growing, low food cities won't need as much happiness, why burn shields trying to force feed new beliefs to them? (Missionaries cost 40s apiece!)

The key thing for us here will be to build a shrine to each Hydra head and concentrate on spreading those three faiths to every city we own, and only spreading the "extra" faiths to large cities that can use the extra happy -- as needed.

Then Wall Street will work wonders (no pun intended) with the Shrine income!

ph34r the might of Clerics With Portfolios(TM)! :lol:


Chief Sirian orders intensive use of forced labor to construct a granary. :whipped:

rb1-35.jpg


The happiness penalty (which lasts ten turns) will fade away before the city could feel any pinch. So we are trading one population point for some shields. It's a pretty good bargain at small towns, but you have to be running Slavery civic, which means you can't be running Serfdom or Caste System. Slavery is my favorite of the early labor civics, because I tend to push harder at expansion than most, and you need to whip those granaries, obelisks, courthouses, etc, to get those new colonies up to speed faster! That is, if you have food bonuses around. (Slow growers, the whip is too painful!)

You can't overdo the whip, though. If I whip again next turn, it's more penalty! The "clearing away" of the second whip penalty doesn't begin until the first one is gone! So if you whip three times in three turns, you will take thirty turns to clear it all away! The Whip is a good strategic tool for the early game and even in to the early industrial period, if you are continually expanding to new cities as your economy allows. Higher difficulty levels, it becomes more valuable because your cities cap out sooner: less "free" health and happy, less chance to found a religion, more trouble competing for resources.


450BC: Complete Granary in Havana, start Archer.

425BC: So much for "White Dot":

rb1-36.jpg


Still, gaining Pink Dot at expense of White Dot was a great trade for us.

Vicky may get itchy once she has no more room to expand. Notice that she is aleady connecting her Horse source at York? I'd feel a lot more comfortable if we had some Spears in our front line cities! After Sailing, I'm going to go for Iron Working.

I whip the Granary at Santa Rosa, then will wait for the city to regrow before starting a worker.

400BC: Train Archer in Havana, start Warrior. (I'm -way- bigger on early military than Sulla realizes! At least for this situation!)

375BC: Discover Sailing, start Iron Working. Train Warrior in Havana, start Lighthouse.

A warrior? WTH is that? Well... You'll see. We'll be running Hereditary Rule for a goodly while, when we get to it, and the extra units bring extra happy in a location of your choosing! Plus they are good "emergency backup" for surprise attacks. You may need a big wad of dough to do it, but I've upgraded Warriors with guns and been -very- happy to do it, pulling an extra unit out of thin air, more or less, when attacked unexpectedly.

Meanwhile, this warrior is sent east to set up as a lookout in the hills, to spot barb threats sooner and "establish our presence in the area". (Does that actually mean something?? Well, yes!)

I also have a warrior in the north, perched on a forested hill, keeping watch up there. Right before he arrived in position, though, a barbarian warrior spawned up there, and so good thing we had EXTRA archers around to respond to this invader!

350BC: Since Sulla ran overtime, I'm not going to play nine turns. I'll just go ahead and play fourteen, get us to some round numbers that make sense, and we'll see how that goes.

275BC: Invading barbarians engage our archers near Green Dot. We win.

rb1-37.jpg


Santa Rosa trains Worker, goes back to Barracks construction.


250BC: Havana completes Lighthouse, starts Archer. Swap to max food!

rb1-38.jpg


Sulla wants to chop those forests, but I don't see the point. We have FIVE 3/0/2 plots on the lake, and the farms he wants to build would be 3/0/0 plots until the end of time (Biology tech!) I think we should instead not chop any of those forests! Each one is worth 0.4 Health bonus, so you get a free health at 3, 5, 8 or 10 forests in range of your city. Ten is like incredible, and you'd have to chop some, I'd think, but I've seen 8. 5 is doable. We have four here to start, and no pressing need to get rid of them. The time to burn forests for mad early chopping is usually earlier than this. Can be worth to chop them ALL down in some cases, but you really have to make it count.

Instead, my hope is to let the forests grow. There are four different forest plots who could "expand" to the green-circled plains plot, if we avoid building anything (even a road) there. If it doesn't happen, we can chop one of the four forests, probably the one on the hill.

Free health may mean free food! If we can gather the happy to match. Not doing us any good now, but neither will Sulla's farms.

Note you can only build a Lighthouse if adjacent to SALT water. To get the 3-food lake tiles, you have to be adjacent to the ocean, plus also have some lake plots in range.

At max food, Havana grows to max happy in just two turns. And yes, we have a granary in place, so half of that new food will be saved.


Santa Rosa still has three more turns of Slavery Memory.

rb1-39.jpg


So I time it to grow in three turns, as well, at which point I recommend starting a Settler. Santa Rosa is better as a specialized city churning workers and settlers for us for a while than producing military or missionaries.

How can I tell there are three turns to go on the whipping memory? Other than having written down the turn on which I whipped? The slavery button near the bottom of the city zoom. It will say 10 turns if there is NO memory, and anything higher than ten shows turns left until the memory is gone. 13 shown in that box means (13 - 10) turns to go, or three turns.
 
Globe view showing resources.

rb1-40.jpg


We have lots of Cow and Spices, some extra Rice, Wheat, Clams, Gold.
No Fish, unless we trade with England (or take some of hers).
No Horses for us, either, only the one Horse on the continent at York.
Some plots not explored in the east, maybe a Horse there, but don't bet on it.

Nary a Copper source in sight anywhere!
(Could be VERY painful trying to build Statue of Liberty without copper!) :eek:

Military units, known locations.

rb1-41.jpg


The color-coded circles around those, showing civ ownership, could stand to be larger!
I have to squint to make them out. :rolleyes:

Explorations in the east:

rb1-42.jpg


DotMap(TM) recommendations for the north:

rb1-43.jpg


From here, ten turns should be sane: 250BC, 1AD, 250AD, etc. (I think).


- Sirian
 
Sirian said:
How can I tell there are three turns to go on the whipping memory? Other than having written down the turn on which I whipped? The slavery button near the bottom of the city zoom. It will say 10 turns if there is NO memory, and anything higher than ten shows turns left until the memory is gone. 13 shown in that box means (13 - 10) turns to go, or three turns.

Sorry to intrude, but I have a question. Why would the slavery button show 10 turns of memory if there had been no whipping? Shouldn't it show zero if there is no memory? Is this something that has been in the build long enough for the testers to grow accustomed to so they don't notice that it is confusing?

Does this show unhappiness from the city growing above it's happiness number as well, hence the 10 turns or simply whipping unhappiness? If it's only from whipping that should read as zero normally, and then count down from 10 or whatever, not 10+X turns of whip unhappiness.
 
I believe the button is to actually use the whip... so it is telling you, if you click it, it will be X many turns... (but I haven't actually used it, hell I've only started one game)
 
Ahh, right, the Lighthouse! There's something I had entirely overlooked. Obviously no need for farms if we can turn all those lake tiles into 3 food ones magically overnight. Excellent call on that one. :goodjob:

I also think there's a good chance we'll be attacked sooner rather than later. I'll cross my fingers as far as having some iron and try to build us some spears. (If we were to have 2/3 of the continent and find zero copper OR iron, that would be phenomenally bad luck!)
 
Instead, my hope is to let the forests grow. There are four different forest plots who could "expand" to the green-circled plains plot, if we avoid building anything (even a road) there. If it doesn't happen, we can chop one of the four forests, probably the one on the hill.

You can not plant forests, but they will spread on their own accord - is that what you are saying. How many turns would that take on average?

Edit : removed incorrect information - due to bad eyesight.
 
Harrier said:
Also the circled 5th tile is not in the city radius - so if the forest spreads there - how does that help in the health of the city.

Looks like it's in the city radius to me ...
 
Shakes said:
Looks like it's in the city radius to me ...


Oops - you right. :blush:

I was looking at the southern six tiles, forgot about the eastern 6.
 
Rik Meleet said:
Isn't the triangle pointing to the location of the unit the same colour ?

Why yes, yes it is. I'm legendarily bad about (not) noticing the most blatantly obvious things. Good thing I have a knack for spotting the extremely obscure things now and then, or I'd be completely useless. :lol:

Hmm. Not sure if that's enough to satisfy my weak eyes, but it does help some. I'll have to remember that and re-evaluate after some use. :cool:


- Sirian
 
Sullla said:
Ahh, right, the Lighthouse! There's something I had entirely overlooked. Obviously no need for farms if we can turn all those lake tiles into 3 food ones magically overnight. Excellent call on that one. :goodjob:

I also think there's a good chance we'll be attacked sooner rather than later. I'll cross my fingers as far as having some iron and try to build us some spears. (If we were to have 2/3 of the continent and find zero copper OR iron, that would be phenomenally bad luck!)


Iron sometimes has a fondness for the ice. Might be some south of Havana! If the English cut off our only source of iron by stealing White Dot, we may be wise to gear up and attack there. Construction here we come! :lol: Or the iron could be in the east. Gah.

This is the fun part of Civ: what to do when the game throws a shoe in to the machinery. :lol:


- Sirian
 
Sirian has once again stabilized and consolidated our territory after my last turn, making sure that we aren't vulnerable in any particular area. I'll try to hold down the fort here without anything bad happening during my 10 turns. So long as we keep on expanding and back it up with defense, we should be in good shape.

Goals:
- Finish a settler for Sirian to found another city with (?)
- Cross fingers for iron
- Connect stone resource
- Don't screw up!

(0) 250BC Sirian's got us building an archer in Havana and a barracks each in Matanzas and Santa Rosa. We've got two archers in both of our border cities (several of them with City Garrison II promotions!), and an additional warrior too in Santa Rosa. Plus several more warriors out scouting in the blackness to defend against barbarian hordes from the east. This looks good, but... more military? Bah! Sirian is being too much of an old granny here. :D Vicky's not likely to be able to get through our defenses anytime soon - I am not worried. Our archers in Mantanzas is getting almost a 150% bonus to defense after promotions and culture is factored in. All we need are a couple of spears and we'll be fine.

Havana swapped to temple, which will do us more good IMO than yet another archer (let's grow it as far as possible!). Santa Rosa will wait three turns to grow to size 4, then it will go onto settler. Matanzas finishes its barracks next turn, so I'll leave it alone. We haven't placed a high priority on getting our stone hooked up, so I make a note to do that as well. We want to push for the Chichen Itza wonder in Havana: +25% defense in all our cities (quite useful!), half cost with stone, and (most importantly) more free Great Prophet points for Havana. We need shrines in a big way, at least 3, so anything to emphasize the Prophets is key.

RB1-vickychristian.jpg


(1) 225BC Barracks completes in Matanzas. Victoria adopts Christianity! It spread to her "White Dot" city (Canterbury). That dictates my next action - Christian missionary in Matanzas. We're going to want to swap to Christianity soon, so let's make sure that Santa Rosa also has our state religion in it once we go to Christianity. Holding off on switching for now until Santa Rosa's culture hits 100 from having the Confucian holy city in it.

(2) 200BC Great Lighthouse built in a faraway land. Santa Rosa to settler (barracks have about 40 shields remaining).

RB1-canterbury.jpg


(3) 175BC Matanzas' borders expand, putting a good deal of pressure on Canterbury. A flip is unlikely, but it's nice to have control over those tiles anyway. With a lot of culture in Matanzas, Vicky may never get those tiles back!

RB1-whales.jpg


(4) 150BC There's a whale down in the southeast corner of the continent that we'll want to grab someday. A barb archer attacks one of our warriors fortified on a forest hill and we win easily.

(5) 125BC Iron Working discovered. I pick Philosophy next to go after a sixth head! :jesus: (Just kidding!) Monarchy is next for Hereditary Rule, which we'll need for sure with our general lack of happiness resources here. As for iron, do we have some?

RB1-havanairon.jpg


Yes, I'd say we have some! :) Need a road to hook it up, of course, so I send a worker to go do that. Vicky has two iron sources herself (no clue if they're hooked up or not) and we can potentially aquire two more as well in the north and east. Lot of iron on this continent!

Santa Rosa passes 100 culture this turn. With our borders at size 3 up there, I swap us over to Christianity to get the diplo boost with Vicky and the shield boost in Havana/Matanzas.

(6) 100BC Havana builds a temple and I tell it to build another one. Heck, let's grow like a weed there! (We also got +1 happy in there from swapping to Christianity as a state religion.)

I just saw this turn where Sirian was planning on building the road from Matanzas to Santa Rosa in order to avoid sending it through the desert. I missed that completely. So now we have a road that goes through the desert too, and I likely wasted some worker turns there. My mistake. :smoke:

(8) 50BC Iron hooked up! I'm going to leave the spear-building to Sirian, just so that he can vent some of the frustration due to my vetoing his plans earlier this turn.

(9) 25BC Havana builds temple, I set it to build a spear (changed my mind already, heh). Matanzas finishes Christian missionary, who heads off to Santa Rosa. It starts on a spear too, since I know that will be Sirian's choice and I might as well get a head start on it for his turn.

(10) 1AD Christianity spreads on its own in York. Our own missionary moves to Santa Rosa and will spread the religion there next turn (barring a very unlucky dice roll). With spears (and the possibility to build axes/swords), our defenses should be set for the next few centuries against any English aggression.

RB1-stone.jpg


My plan is to have Havana build Chichen Itza as soon as this stone finishes getting hooked up. It's definitely the wonder we want in this situation (we'd also *REALLY* like Angkor Wat later on, so maybe a Philosophy beeline isn't as crazy as it sounds!) Heck, the Spiral Minaret is *ALSO* a stone-based wonder, and it *ALSO* provides Great Prophet points, so we really might want to think about going for the full seven-headed beast! We *COULD* use the next Great Prophet to grab Philosophy and Taosim, which would then allow us to run Pacifism and greatly increase the rate of our third Great Prophet (then use HIM for Divine Right, perhaps?) With the Heroic Epic and Pacifism in place, plus Chichen Itza and Angkor Wat (and Spiral Minaret?), we could then generate a series of Great Prophets in Havana in rapid succession. (This is all highly speculative, but I'll throw it out there.) What if we founded *ALL* seven religions and built *ALL* seven shrines? It's theoretically possible here! We'd be sitting high and mighty indeed if we could pull THAT off! :egypt:

OK, coming down of the clouds and returning to reality... Havana is just about halfway to another Great Prophet. We're Christian now and getting some minor pluses with Vicky, which should go up in time. Feel free to ignore my rantings if you want Sirian, and take the course that you think looks best. (Of course, now that I've laid this out, I really want to try it just for role-playing purposes!)
 
Hi guys!!

First off, this games looks first rate :hatsoff: Thanks for all of your hard work!

I'm bummed that I didn't get a chance to participate in the play session (stupid inadequate laptop), but I have recently put together my own brand-spanking new desktop, and after a little :hammer: it should be ready to play some CIV :goodjob: Won't be immediately, but maybe end of this month/next month...

On another quick note, Sullla, I've been getting 403 errors trying to access your walkthrough the last couple days. Problem?

dathon
 
dathon78 said:
On another quick note, Sullla, I've been getting 403 errors trying to access your walkthrough the last couple days. Problem?

I forget where he posted it, but on some other forum, Sulla mentioned that he had to pull the walkthrough due to bandwidth/hosting concerns. IIRC, it had generated 100GB of bandwidth usage, or something obscene, for its host. He said he was working on finding alternative hosting. For more/better info than that, Sulla would have to chime in.
 
Great game, guys! I've been lurking these forums for years, but this is my very first post. It's only fitting I should use it to thank you for all the great reads you've given me over the years, including this one! I eventually tired of playing Civ3, but never of reading well-crafted reports and SGs such as this one. Here's hoping Civ4 (when I get it) will revive my enthusiasm for playing as well. Keep it up, I can't wait for the next post :)

A newbie question while I'm at it: Your expansion pace is obviously slower than in Civ3, which I imagine is due to the tweaked game mechanics. But which is more important, the actual cost of producing settlers (with escorts), or the economic burden of maintaining more cities? Put another way, if you thought you had the military edge to do so (with reasonable effort), would you hesitate to conquer the English cities at this point?
 
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