RB1 - Cuban Isolationists

[oopsy poopsy]

Lurker's Comment:
I'm not sure how this is good news? If it counted the bonuses separately then they would be compounded and you would generate more spt. Of course the way it is it's easier to calculate, but then the game calculates it for you so I'd take the compound bonus if I had a choice. Let me know if I'm missing something.

I think it's because the game doesn't track the fraction, even in the background. If the game didn't add together the bonus' then the computer would calculate it this way:

2 + (2*.25) = 2.5 = 2, then again 2 + (2*.25) = 2.5 = 2
The 2.5 = 2 comes from the rounding off the computer does by not keeping track of the fraction.

What you want it to do is calculate like this:
2 + (2*.25) = 2.5, then 2.5 + (2*.25) = 3.125.

What it actually does now is:

2 + (2 * (.25 + .25)) = 3

At least I'm pretty sure that was what Siran was saying about not tracking fractions.

 

[Harrier]

I think it's because the game doesn't track the fraction, even in the background. If the game didn't add together the bonus' then the computer would calculate it this way:

2 + (2*.25) = 2.5 = 2, then again 2 + (2*.25) = 2.5 = 2

The 2.5 = 2 comes from the rounding off the computer does by not keeping track of the fraction.

I believe this was the way Civ3 worked. Each improvement adding 25% was applied to the base value seperately.

so: (step by step and rounding down)

Civ3: 2 + (2*.25) + (2*.25)
= 2 + 0 + 0
= 2

Civ4: 2 + (2*(.25 + .25))
= 2 + (2* .50)
= 2 + 1
= 3

Therefore Civ4 is better than civ3 in this regard.

 

[Sullla]

(0) 250AD Agree that things are looking pretty good. The only downsides that I see at the moment are that 1) we don't have enough cities (because we've been pursuing so many religions, hehe) and 2) our science rate stinks. Only making 33 beakers/turn, which is not too much. I'll concentrate on libraries and settlers during my turn, and try to get a galley going to explore that territory across the water that we can see.

Warrior in the east turns tail and runs from the archer he sees. I'm going to set up a situation where the archer has to attack him across a river and into a forest, which will swing the odds in our favor.

(1) 275AD Ahh!

Chichen Itza built in a faraway land! Not good news. So much for the best-laid plans of mice and men (seriously though, wow - I don't recall the AI ever building Chichen Itza so early in a game before). But bad news for us regardless. Well, Havana goes to work on a must-needed library. Looks like it was not to be.

On the plus side, through skillful manipulation of terrain, we get the barb archer to kill himself attacking our exploratory warrior.

(2) 300AD We get 294g from missing Chichen Itza. Not bad, but I'd rather have had the wonder, myself. Matanzas finishes settler (goes to library), and I send him to the best city location we haven't grabbed yet: the dot to the EAST of Havana, next to wheat and cows. It's a great site, and I'd rather take it now and build it up sooner than found some of our fill-in dots just because they're to the west.

(3) 325AD Christianity spreads to Santiago (our new city) on its own, which is nice to avoid having to send a missionary there. We may well want to build the Christian shrine first in Matanzas, since that's the religion we're using right now.

Since Havana has reached its happiness limit, I create two Priest specialists, as seen above. We'll have our second Great Prophet in no time (5 more turns).

(4) 350AD Santa Rosa finishes Lighthouse, starts Galley. Let's go find out who the purple people are! It should complete right at the end of my turn thanks to a forest chop.

(5) 375AD San Roberto, a city that takes its inspiration from Sirian, is founded.

With all the hills around it and the food available from the cows/wheat, this looks like a good candidate for a production city, one that pumps shields at the expense of commerce. I expect that we'll be able to use this city to provide much of our military down the road. I'll sneak in a worker for it as soon as Havana finishes its library.

 

[Sullla]

(6) 400AD Parthenon built in a faraway land too. All the early wonders falling rapidly now... Havana builds its much-overdue library, goes to work on a quick worker (4 turns) for San Roberto.

(7) 425AD There are now a million Cubans!

El Presidente must be doing a good job, si! Research finishes on Metal Casting, and I pick Alphabet next. We're going to need the ability to trade techs sooner rather than later, and there's a good chance we can exchange some expensive techs that we've already got for some cheaper things that the AI civs already have (probably can get a good deal on Theology, for example).

(8) 450AD Mahavira (Great Prophet) born in Havana:

As expected, the tech is Divine Right. Now - personally just for role-playing purposes, I would put the research into Divine Right and research that next. It would guarantee us Islam and let us build the Spiral Minaret in Havana (which is not a bad wonder itself, if not as good as Angkor Wat). However, from a purely practical standpoint, it makes more sense to use this Prophet on a shrine (for some religion!) Rather than make any decision myself, I'll hold onto him for now and wait to consult with Sirian. It would only take about 5 turns to research Divine Right after using the Prophet though... and think of the trade value that tech would have... and we could build the Spiral Minaret... c'mon Sirian, you know you want to grab a sixth head for the hydra!

(9) 475AD A barb axeman, one that I did NOT see coming, apparently, reaches out and smacks down our warrior on guard duty in the north. Yikes! With that in mind, Matanzas (which just finished a library) starts work on an axe to defend against barbs from the north. Santa Rosa finishes its galley, starts a forge (with library expected to follow that).

That's as far as our galley can go. He can't leave our cultural borders! But that will be far enough to drop off this archer next turn and say "hi" to Purple civ. We should probably build a scout to explore this new territory soon (the archer is planned to return back to Santa Rosa as soon as contact is made). Oh, and I just realized this turn that I forgot to whip Santiago at the beginning of my turn. No point in whipping a Work Boat that's almost complete, so Sirian feel free to whip a lighthouse or something similar in Santiago during your turn.

(10) 500AD Hinduism spreads on its own to San Roberto. Our people are going to be hopelessly confused when it comes to reigion, I tell ya. And... we have a new neighbor:

Caesar, it looks like. And he's Confucian! Obviously the religion spread on its own to the north from Santa Rosa. Should be some good money coming in down the road from that shrine then, nice. Sirian, you might want to do some religious scouting on your turn - Vicky's got a Confucian city too that we'd be able to spy upon. Next couple of settlers need to head to the north, both because that's where the barb action is coming from and Caesar MAY be able to reach it from his territory. Don't know for certain, of course, whether there is a coastal path or not, but better not to chance it. Havana should be able to crank some settlers rapidly once it finishes its forge.

I personally would like to see us take Islam, just for kicks, with the understanding that so long as we keep Havana free of non-Great Prophet wonders (and if we build the Heroic Epic there, plus possibly run Pacifism later on) we'll get plenty of Great Prophets for all the shrines we need. We can get Divine Right in only 5 turns after using the Prophet, so it's not even that expensive. You know you want to feed the hydra some more...

 

[Sullla]

A zoomed out map of our territory (flying camera mode is fun!)

Feed the hydra!

 

[Lord Genghis]

Lurker's comment:
Very entertaining game boys.

Just had 2 quick questions regarding the AI and Granaries:

If you hem the AI in to a very small area, do they mobilize for war to try expand? Contiuing from this, if they are restricted, with a choice between a well defended city and a poorly defended city, will they focus their conquest on the more appopriate poorly defended city?

As soon as you gained Pottery, you swapped to Granaries in all cities straight away, I think I am missing something here, but is the 50% stored after growth really worth it?

 

[Sirian]

Wow, a pic of a Hydra. How can I resist that?

This beast is threatening to get away from us! It has infected Sulla's mind!

The Hydra is not having 3+ religions, though. It's having 3+ IN ONE CITY, and we are past feeding that beast.

I'll think about it.

 

[parachute4u]

Sulla, in your screenie about the library being build in havana (which you wanted to be built ASAP), wouldnt it be better to "whip the lib" and use those 2 priests on the food to grow it back to ten afterwards? I think while running slavery, the whip is to be used as often as possible. It seems to be much better to aim for food rich cities during the early game anyways (Whipped shields carry over!! ). So, if you really need sth build, you can whip it without, well, wasting anyone. If you don't need anything fast, you can let some priests do the shield working part of the project and cash in the extra commerce/great person points...

I did that whipping on a regular basis in a (multi-religious) city, that had two fish resources. It grew over happiness and health limits quite often. Whipping theaters, temples, grocers and even aqueducts was the biggest fun in that particular location. Whipping health'n happiness, that's what I call the dark ages...

One question about the granary: What does it mean: The granary stores the food, while it's produced?? I just built it, cause, well, it's a granary, it can't be bad (even it is fish that's stored inside)... How does it work in Civ4?

sorry for the noob-talk.-.- and: Great game so far!

 

[Sirian]

500AD: Although it is not my first choice, I cave to the pressure and spend our Prophet on research, then have to burn through our savings at -16gpt for SIX TURNS to research the rest of the way to Divine Right. I swap Havana to Settler, which will finish in six turns, at which point I'll start the Minaret immediately. At least the Minaret will make up for the delay on getting our Shrines built.

540AD: Barbarian AXEMAN appears from the fog. I must have missed this part of Sulla's report? When did our warrior on guard in the north get axed? Oh well. Despite my rounds of heavy militariizing, our military is still quite thin. I have to blow 85g on upgrading a regular warrior to make SURE this pest doesn't cause undo harm.

We also have another axeman due to finish training next turn. We need more settlers!

Oh this is interesting:

This, on the other hand:

Remember when I said we might have trouble with "BC times"? Well there it is.

BC = Barbarian Cities! They can be a pain in the butt.

At least this one popped up on one of the correct Dots.


560AD: Not the best prize, but we'll take it.

 

[Sirian]

600AD: That's a large island, and technically part of our continental region.

Trade route opens with Caesar and I decide to trade away Gold and Cow for Corn and Pig.
Not that we need the extra Health resources But trade boosts relations.

620AD: Six-pack.

M-City.

The Hydra eats another poor "non-Havana-founded" missionary unit. Oops.

You can see the settler from Havana heading northward.


560AD: I spend 85g to upgrade our Cover-promoted Warrior to Axeman, in the east.
This to better guard our frontier.

600AD: I decide to attack the barbarian city!

The odds were in our favor, so what the hey.
Might as well thin them out before they put up Walls or grow some Culture.

We will need to retreat and heal up before we attack again.
Ideally, still one archer there when the city reaches size 2. We can CAPTURE this town, maybe.
Promotions, baby, yeah.

I whipped a couple of things this round:
* Forge at M-City.
* Granary, Hindu Monastary at Saint Bob. (What a city name!)
* Forge at Santiago.

We should consider trying for Colossus at Santiago! It can run 9spt plus 50% bonus!
No copper resource bonus, so we better get started!

 

[Sirian]

600AD: Discover Alphabet. Trade Code of Laws to JC for Mathematics. Start researching CURRENCY.

(Seen that quote yet? "A civilization without currency..."? Guess who wrote that one.

Vicky and JC haven't met. Vicky is uninterested in trading with us at this time.
Why not? Well, I didn't ask. (You can find out WHY by mousing over the red-item during negotiations.)
I left that for Sulla to worry about.

When JC's forward outpost expanded borders, it trapped our units. (Our ships cannot leave our waters!)
We would have to go to war to get through his land! :shakehead:
I opted not to bother, even though a horse resource is up there.

What we CAN do is explore the other island, maybe plant a city there.

So I loaded up a Spear from Rosa. (Not the safest move, but we lack for units.)
They are en route to the island north of Santiago. We should follow up with a settler right away!
Plus we could stand to build more archers.

The latest DotMap(TM):

Red Dot looks ideal for next settler, assuming it's not in the water.

Original Yellow Dot shown, but could be split in to the two yellow bullseyes.

New Pink Dot looks like the best remaining site. Would also pop the hut there "for free", but must take military with you!

Gray Dot is weakish but collects Spices.

White Dot = Clam site.
Dark Blue Dot = Whale site.
Light Blue Dot = Crab site.
Black Dot = possible fishing village, if we get around to it.


As for religious scouting...

Judaism has spread to some cities! We may want to scout that eventually.

* Don't want to switch away from Christianity if building Colossus in Santiago, though!
* Don't want to switch to Confucianism until we spread it to the capital (could take a while!)

No big rush on the "religions scouting" just yet. Not a lot of spread has occurred.

Keep an eye on F7, though. Track the percentages, see what's the latest fads.

Two settlers are in production. We need more cities!


- Sirian

 

[insydr]

Great reading so far guys, keep it up. Quick question.

A zoomed out map of our territory (flying camera mode is fun!)

How do you do this, and what does it do?

 

[nevs69]

Great post...

Quick Question: How do you turn the terrain grid on? I have looked in options but haven't found it. Can you point me in the right direction?

 

[Bezhukov]

Why the aversion to BC's? The name of my most legendary (69K culture) city in a Russian cultural win: Illinois.

 

[Speaker]

Great post...

Quick Question: How do you turn the terrain grid on? I have looked in options but haven't found it. Can you point me in the right direction?

"<Ctrl>T" for the grid.

 

[Reagan]

There's also an option button in the bottom right corner that toggles the grid overlay. As for the zooming camera mode -- try playing with your page up and page down keys to move the camera around.

Also, I saw the question asked earlier in the thread but not yet addressed -- is there a research cost reduction benefit in Civ4, as there was in Civ3, to meeting as many opposing civs as possible? I'm curious about that as well. I've not played enough Civ4 to have gathered any emperical evidence to answer the question.

 

[Sirian]

is there a research cost reduction benefit in Civ4, as there was in Civ3, to meeting as many opposing civs as possible? I'm curious about that as well. I've not played enough Civ4 to have gathered any emperical evidence to answer the question.

In Civ4, the tech deflation occurs whether you meet them or not. This prevents isolated civs from falling hopelessly behind.

There are AI diplomatic consequences (good and bad) to having contact, though, so it does matter. Also notice, you can't trade contacts. You have to make contact yourself!


- Sirian

 

[Carbon_Copy]

Why the aversion to BC's? The name of my most legendary (69K culture) city in a Russian cultural win: Illinois.

I don't think it's an aversion to their existence so much as that they're a huge pain to take over if you leave the barbs alone for any length of time. In a Monarch game I'm playing, It took a giant stack of axes and swords to take down a barb city on a hill that I had let build walls and expand borders, and I lost most of them in the attempt (I hadn't yet got to catapults, and the barbs built their city next to my only reachable horse resource, so no mounted units). And on Terra maps, since all the civs start on the "old world", the "new world" is left over entirely to barbs until somebody gets to Optics and starts building ocean-going vessels. Expanding your "colonies" in the New World can be more difficult than conquering a rival civ if all those cities have four or five defenders behind walls and expanded borders. The barbs really need to be respected this time around.

 

[insydr]

As for the zooming camera mode -- try playing with your page up and page down keys to move the camera around.

I know about zooming in and out using page up/page down or the mouse wheel. What I'm asking is what you have to do to get the camera flying enabled message to appear on screen, and how enabling this is different from just zooming in or out.

 

[Sullla]

Ctrl-F operates the Flying Camera mode (you also have to enable it in the ini file, however). Basically, it removes the constraints that you have with normal zooming and camera movement. You can zoom to ridiculously close or far distances, and rotate the view a full 360 degrees (you can look at the back side of your cities, which is often amusing). I mostly use it to take zoomed out screenshots of my territory or extremely zoomed in shots of cities (like I did in the Walkthrough at some points).

Since Sirian has now sent me the correct save file , I should be able to play later today. More cities! Them's the words of the day.