amadeus
Serenity now
A hell of a lot of good her security detail was, right?
Reporter brutally raped in Egypt.
- Thread starter PlutonianEmpire
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Mise
isle of lucy
We should only send large ugly men to dangerous and hostile places. Pretty women should stay at home and look nice for us on TV.
RedRalph
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It's funny when smoene thinks "she was asking for it" but can't bring themselves to say it so make lame attempts to make it seems as if that isn't what they are saying...
Disgustipated
Deity
I'm going to go off on a limb here, and get flamed pretty heavily for it I suppose.
What if she's faking it? I know, I know, I suggested the same thing with the Duke rape case, and everyone said I was crazy. Women would never fake rape. Yes I know this woman is a respected reporter, not some two-bit stripper. But I figure there is the possibility she's faking it to "create" news. I was appalled at Fox news creating news by the beating of their team in Egypt. Yes it actually happened, but that doesn't mean you need to report it over and over. Fox news is shameless sometimes. So maybe she decided to one-up fox news.
I just don't buy her reason for not going to an Egyptian hospital, so I don't trust her story. I'm sorry if that makes me a bad person. So be it. I generally don't trust people until I get to know them.
What if she's faking it? I know, I know, I suggested the same thing with the Duke rape case, and everyone said I was crazy. Women would never fake rape. Yes I know this woman is a respected reporter, not some two-bit stripper. But I figure there is the possibility she's faking it to "create" news. I was appalled at Fox news creating news by the beating of their team in Egypt. Yes it actually happened, but that doesn't mean you need to report it over and over. Fox news is shameless sometimes. So maybe she decided to one-up fox news.
I just don't buy her reason for not going to an Egyptian hospital, so I don't trust her story. I'm sorry if that makes me a bad person. So be it. I generally don't trust people until I get to know them.
Patroklos
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Which is why you would send your daughter or sister or wife through that crowd? If you wouldn't, ask yourself why and then admit amadeus's observation is correct.
Mardi Gras is a good example. I plan on going this year with my girlfriend and a bunch of friends. I know the circumstances mean there is a very good chance that in a packed crowd of drunks in carnival mood at an event designed to release repressed sexual tension someone will inappropriately proposition or even grope my girlfriend (as does she). If this happens I will not be surprised. I will still beat the living tar out of him, but I will not be surprised. The circumstances (however saddening that reality is) are known.
You just got done telling us how violence against women is pandemic, to then pretend that this is not known and precautions should/can't be made based on the circumstances is just denying reality. In this case the circumstances were so bad that even after precautions were taken the assault still happened and yet are we really still surprised? I am talking about surprise mind you, you can still be appalled. The victim is not to blame nor are the actions to be excused, but that does not mean they are entirely unexpected either.
Very few war correspondents get killed in battle, but when they do we don't act surprised by it. In fact, we normally blame them a little bit for putting themselves inside such circumstances. In this reporters case she wasn't braving a normal situation fraught with imperiling danger to simple go to class, work, the grocery store or otherwise live a normal life. She was ambulance chasing for money and as her security escort shows was well aware she was intentionally exposing herself to danger. I can blame her a bit for that (exposing herself to violence in general), which is a unique aspect of her situation, not something involved in 99.99% of sexual assault cases.
BTW Egypt has one of the worst cultures of sexual harassment in all of the Middle East, NPR ran a story on it yesterday. Its on their website.
RedRalph
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There are no words.
Patroklos is right that women should alwats take precautions against assault when goin into dangerous situation, which is why he will no doubt admire the fact that this girl had a security detail.
Patroklos
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Thats the thing, the fact that she had a security detail shows that not only was the dangerous circumstances recognized, but then it being overwhelmed should prove that this is not some happy go lucky carnival atmosphere like many pretend. This sexual assault is small potatoes compared to the MURDERS that have taken place.
That is not some judgment on some antidemocratic mentality, its a judgment of the inherent violence of emotionally charged mobs an unstable political environments. This happens often, around the world. She exposed herself to violence in general, not sexual assault in particular, as as calculated risk. And whether you think it fair or not, women are generally at greater risk as targets of violence in general.
The real question is whether she was attacked because she was a women, or was she attacked because she was a nosy western reporter and then sexually assaulted because the opportunity presented itself. I have a hard time believing that a cable of sexual charged men spontaneously overcame a group of professional bodyguards for the sole purpose of sexual assaulting this particular person. There were plenty of other women in the crowd.
I would not, however, be surprised that after she was overwhelmed by the crowd individuals would take the opportunity to get their sexual deviance in. Unfortunately that is all to predictable at that point, especially in Egypt.
That is not some judgment on some antidemocratic mentality, its a judgment of the inherent violence of emotionally charged mobs an unstable political environments. This happens often, around the world. She exposed herself to violence in general, not sexual assault in particular, as as calculated risk. And whether you think it fair or not, women are generally at greater risk as targets of violence in general.
The real question is whether she was attacked because she was a women, or was she attacked because she was a nosy western reporter and then sexually assaulted because the opportunity presented itself. I have a hard time believing that a cable of sexual charged men spontaneously overcame a group of professional bodyguards for the sole purpose of sexual assaulting this particular person. There were plenty of other women in the crowd.
I would not, however, be surprised that after she was overwhelmed by the crowd individuals would take the opportunity to get their sexual deviance in. Unfortunately that is all to predictable at that point, especially in Egypt.
RedRalph
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True. But however, you at the Mardis Gras with your girlfriend... you are effectively her security detail. Suppose you get beaten to a pulp trying to defend her and the worst happens, would it be fair for me to then say 'she took a calculated risk going to the Mardis Gras'? No. there are a limit to how many precautions you can take. The reporter would have been unwise not to take precautions, but she DID take precautions. There is a limit to how many you can take.
A bit of both I suspect. The fact that the racist scum also thought she was Jewish no doubt played a part.
Look, a gang of rapists like this, let's say hypothetically they all get shot dead? Fine by me.
Well, stuff like this deserves some type of donation to a Women's Rights organisation in Egypt. Because it's the Woman Rights organisations that will help fight to change the mindsets that allow this thing to happen.
Sexual assaults have the same false accusation rate as any other crime. It's prudent to keep in mind that an allegation could be false, but there's no reason to suppose it is false without other evidence.
The fact she didn't seek medical care in Egypt isn't evidence. The majority of rape victims never seek medical attention. The reasons should be rather clear if you try to imagine what you would feel in the aftermath of you yourself being raped.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
It is an excellent example of sexually repressed Catholics getting drunk and groping women without their permission. It just goes to show how absurd it is to try to use this incident to vilify and condemn Muslims or Arabs, much less insinuating that the victim was partly responsible for merely being there.
*****
Warlord
I'd wager that Mardi Gras is about as popular with Protestants as it is with Catholics. It's like St. Patrick's Day or Cinco de Mayo, the original meaning is lost on most people, and it's just an excuse to drink.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
It's not completely lost, as it isn't with the other cases you cited.
And to show how Catholic-oriented it really is, try visiting Bourbon Street on Ash Wednesday. Most people go to Mardi Gras perhaps once in their lives. There are many Catholics who go every single year, and they actually seem to be proud of it.
And to show how Catholic-oriented it really is, try visiting Bourbon Street on Ash Wednesday. Most people go to Mardi Gras perhaps once in their lives. There are many Catholics who go every single year, and they actually seem to be proud of it.
*****
Warlord
I know it's not completely lost because my family is Catholic and takes it seriously, but for millions of people in America it's just an excuse to get drunk. Heck, I know Muslims who get drunk on Mardi Gras. Your bigoted characterization of Mardi Gras sexual violations being a result of Catholic sexual repression is unsupported by any facts. Catholics today are nowhere near as repressed as Muslims in the Arab world, and Mardi Gras is popular enough with non-Catholics that it's unfair to attribute everything that happens to Catholics.
I guess you're right. Following your logic, it is her fault for going in there naked (i mean she had, clothes, but fat lot of good they did her, right?).
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
You mean your bigoted strawman of my actual opinions?
Do you actually deny that many Catholics are sexually repressed? That this repression isn't quite evident at Mardi Gras, the one time each year where many Catholics allow themselves to become much less repressed for a few days?
And speaking of bigotry, it was rampant the one year I was there. I thought my Jewish friend and I were going to have fight our way out of a bathroom of an exclusive hotel where locals were having one of their private parties.
*****
Warlord
You mean you bigoted strawman of my actual opinions?
Do you actually deny that many Catholics aren't sexually repressed?
A quick Google search popped up with an article from 1994. Personally I deny it. Some Catholics may be sexually repressed, just as some Protestants or Jews or even Agnostics are. But I don't think that Catholics are unusually repressed compared to the general American population.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
You mean Catholics are no more repressed than other similarly repressed Christians? That as a group they aren't any more bigoted than the typical American? Well, that's sure quite a counter to the obvious facts.
And you apparently still don't have a clue what my actual opinions are.
And you apparently still don't have a clue what my actual opinions are.
Bestbank Tiger
Deity
fify.
Bestbank Tiger
Deity
And you have no clue about either Catholicism or Mardi Gras.
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