1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Research Q&A

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Creation & Customization' started by Ozymandias, Nov 10, 2004.

  1. pedrov

    pedrov Collector of Threads

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2004
    Messages:
    145
    Location:
    Now sin-sin-gnat-uh
    All I seem to have in hardcopy resources is information on notable figures, battles, and who was trying to kill who at this time from some of these kingdoms. If you need that kind of information, post back and I can give you what I have. Of note, it may be of interest that Vijayanagar (Victory City) had some reknown for its fortifications (7 citadels and concentric walls) erected to fend off the Muslims.
     
  2. Rambuchan

    Rambuchan The Funky President

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,560
    Location:
    London, England
    Thank you for your interest and help Pedrov.

    I have done a lot of reading around the whole period and like yourself have found lots of detail on who was at war with whom and why but only a few direct references to what type of units made up their militaries. This is what I know in general terms, please let me know if any of it is misguided or if you know more:

    Generally

    Firearms: There was a lot in the way of firearms being used at this time. I've found a few references to 'rockets', lots about musketmen and seen Mughal paintings of people playing with fireworks. But nothing specific to move forward on for the scenario in creation so I'm not sure what form these firearms took on the battlefield.

    Cavalry:
    Lots of references everywhere to cavalry. Many kings used 'superior cavalry' tactics and 'superior heavy cavalry'. But what was the difference between these and the inferior cavalry? What did they look like?

    Ships:
    Indian ships were big and slow with very large capacities. They followed either Chinese ship building designs or Arab / Ethiopian designs.

    Specifically:


    Rajputs:
    They offered the Mughals stiff resistance but with what kind of military? I have been to Rajasthan many times and they have camels everywhere. I've ridden them too :). I presume these wonderful beasts were used extensively but I don't know for a fact.

    Mughals:
    Superior Cavalry and plenty of firearms and artillery. Again don't really know names or the right look.

    Golkonda:
    With the Golkonda mines producing the biggest diamonds in the world these guys were very wealthy and with good connections to the Safavid Persian Shah Tahmasp. I have no idea what their military was made up of though and whether these relations contributed to military make up..

    Bijapur & Ahmadnagar:
    As with Golkonda.

    Safavid Persians: Shah Tahmasp was evidently a powerful shah. He was kind enough to 'lend' Humayun a small fraction of his army to go and retake Delhi. Not a mean feat. But I have no idea what the army consisted of.

    Vijayanagara: Yes these guys were tough barstewards. I expect they used elephants extensively but can you confirm this please? Were these Mounted Mahuts with bow in hand? I can't imagine a sword would do much good 10-5ft above the battlefield! What kind of infantry? Did they use firearms widely like the others?

    European traders:
    Plenty of cannons, walls and musketmen. I know, I'm from Goa originally and I've been to the forts. But was this all they used?

    Bengal: I am aware that Shah Sher Khan was a military whizz-kid and defeated many of his rivals. I suspect he used similar methods and units as the Mughals - again don't know this for fact.

    Ceylon, Burma, Nepal:
    So far I know nothing about these guys during the 16th and 17th centuries. Gurkahs for Nepal I guess, they have a long history which may well start around this time.
     
  3. Mistfit

    Mistfit Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Messages:
    3,798
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    The first one on your list is Vijayanagar. Unfortunately it does not really fit into the timeframe that you suggest.

    The Vijayanagar Empire
    1336 A.D. to 1565 A.D

    From what I gather it fell in the begining of your timeframe to:

    The Wodeyars of Mysore
    1578 A.D. to 1947 A.D.

    So do you want info on the first or second one?
     
  4. Rambuchan

    Rambuchan The Funky President

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,560
    Location:
    London, England
    Yes Misfit I am aware that Vijyanagara strandle the time frame I am talking about (1500 -1600). I would be interested to hear about both if I can please :D . Links for reading are fine.

    Some advice on leaders and the accuracy of timeframe in scenario/mod creation would be appreciated please. At present I am starting this Mughals scenario at 1500AD (which is early but works well) and months pass 12 at a time for the first 50 turns then slowly downwards 10, 9, 6, 4, 3. This works well and achieves some realism, the right wonders and military campaigns seem to be happening around the right dates. The scenario looks like it could stretch right beyond the 1600s to perhaps 1800 even. However I need some advice on the inclusion of leaders. Let's use the Mughals as an easy example.

    Babur started off the dynasty and 1526 is accepted to be the date he first launched a campaign into north India to found the Mughal empire. However Akbar was by far the more successful and famous Mughal yet his reign was from 1556 - 1605.

    Two things arise: 1) Do you generally choose the most famous of a civ/kingdom/dynasty to give a player as the leader like in teh epic civ game? Or go for the one that was around when the game starts? I'm inclined to go for the first option. 2) How important do people find it to begin the game exactly on the right date? For me the timing I've got works very well and the fact that wonders/campaigns happen from AI action at accurate dates satisfies me. But clearly Babur and Mughals weren't set up with the same powerbase as they begin this scenario in 1500 but the game unfolds quite accurately thereafter. What's more important do you think - start accuracy or game unfolding to realistic timeframe?

    Again thanks for your interest.
     
  5. Mistfit

    Mistfit Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Messages:
    3,798
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    I dont know if this is useful but I found it interesting

    Bijapur

    From this page:
    http://www.bijapur.net/sightseeing.htm
     
  6. Luthor_Saxburg

    Luthor_Saxburg Vassal of Civilization

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    I don't know if it is the correct thread, but here goes:

    => Does anyone know a scenario for the North Afrikan battles of WW II? Even if it is an old one, for Vanilla or PTW.
     
  7. El Justo

    El Justo Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    Messages:
    12,945
    Location:
    Southern NJ
    it probably would've been better to post it in the main C&C forum but who cares? :mischief:

    iirc, Luddi had begun to make just such a scenario. i can't recall whether he finished it or not though.
     
  8. Rambuchan

    Rambuchan The Funky President

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,560
    Location:
    London, England
    I'm doing a Mughals scenario with Luddi atm, and he hasn't told me about any N. African scen. I think he would have done. But just to say I don't think he is working on it atm even if he did start it.

    PS. El Justo, do you mind if we PM you with the odd modding question? It's going well but we're trying to pull off some fancy stuff and it would be good to have a mentor close at hand. Don't mind if you're busy but thought I would ask.
     
  9. Cruelsader

    Cruelsader Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    51
    I have patched PTW and I tried to create my own scenario. However, I could not find answer to the following question:

    In the editor you can assign difficulty level for AI civs. Am I correct in presuming that starting units, production bonus, trade agressiveness and most other bonuses to AI depend on the difficulty level of HUMAN player not on the difficulty level of the AI. What does the difficulty level of AI determine? Number of citizens born content? Number of resistants quelled by military? All the factors found in the editor -> rules -> difficulty level -> right column?

    Thank you for your time and answers!
     
  10. Rambuchan

    Rambuchan The Funky President

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,560
    Location:
    London, England
    That's very good stuff! Thanks! Ties in nicely with some research on a Protuguese gun called the Serpe. Bijapur and Portuguese Traders were in conflict and trade contact. So this is an interesting discovery - thanks :).
     
  11. El Justo

    El Justo Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    Messages:
    12,945
    Location:
    Southern NJ
    Rambuchan,

    iirc, Luddi had started one many moons ago but i hadn't seen it in a while. ask him about it. he'll remember.

    i'd be happy to help. feel free to PM me whenever you wish.

    to get back on topic in this thread, i'll ask Oz and Mistfit this question again. i'm revising TCW so that the starting date is 1950 rather than 1960. as such, i'm in search of leader names again. of course some are simple while others are a little trickier. i'll post the civs which are a little stickier when i get the chance.

    thanks in advance!
     
  12. Mistfit

    Mistfit Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Messages:
    3,798
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Get me that list of civs and I'll get them for you asap.
     
  13. El Justo

    El Justo Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    Messages:
    12,945
    Location:
    Southern NJ
    Thanks Mistfit. the new start date is approximately sept 1950 or thereabouts.

    here is what i think i need:


    Greece
    Turkey
    Mexico
    Colombia
    Argentina
    Libya
    Central Africa*


    * i know just about all of these nations did not attain independence until the 60s (for the most part). however, i think i need to use something :confused:
     
  14. Mistfit

    Mistfit Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Messages:
    3,798
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Greece
    King
    Pavlos 1946-1964

    Interesting side note:
    Greece had Kings from 1833 to 1924 then Presidents from 1924 to 1935 but then went back to Kings from 1935 to 1973 :confused: Normally once a country goes to a President they stay there but Greece seemes to flip flop...


    Turkey
    Presidents
    Ismet Inönü 1938-1950 (till May 22nd)
    Celal Bayar 1950-1960

    Mexico
    President
    Miguel Alemán 1946-1952

    Colombia
    Presidents
    Mariano Ospina Pérez 1946-1950 (till July 8th)
    Laureano Gómez Castro 1950-1953
    Gustavo Rojas Pinilla 1953-1957


    Argentina
    President
    Juan Domingo Peron 1946-1955


    Libya
    Did not become an Independent Kingdom until Dec. 1951
    King
    Idris I 1951-1983


    Central Africa*
    What Countries do you want here???
     
  15. El Justo

    El Justo Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    Messages:
    12,945
    Location:
    Southern NJ
  16. Mistfit

    Mistfit Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Messages:
    3,798
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Thanks for the :goodjob:

    Tanzania
    Independent Monarchy "Tanganjika" in the British Commonwealth 09.12.1961
    Republic 09.12.1962.
    Federation with Sansibar (independent since 10.12.1963) as "Tanganjika and Sansibar" 27.04.1964,
    "United Republic of "Tanzania" 29.10.1964.

    Queen
    Elizabeth II 1961-1962

    President and Chief Minister
    Julius Nyerere (Chief Minister since 1960) 1962-1985

    (Governor-general)
    Sir Richard Gordon Turnbull (Governor since 1958) 1961-1962

     
  17. El Justo

    El Justo Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    Messages:
    12,945
    Location:
    Southern NJ
    hmm...i think i'm gonna run into some issues here b/c of the 1950 start date.

    nigeria? zaire? kenya? sudan?

    opinions?

    love the personal smilie, too. where'd you get such a thing?
     
  18. Mistfit

    Mistfit Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Messages:
    3,798
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    nigeria?
    British colony and protectorate 1914,
    independent monarchy in the British Commonwealth 01.10.1960
    King
    George VI. 1936-1952 (he died in 52)

    zaire?
    Independent Republic Kongo 30.06.1960,
    Republic of "Zaire" 27.10.1971,
    "Democratic Republic of Kongo" 17.05.1997

    1960+

    kenya?
    Independent Monarchy in the British Commonwealth 12.12.1963,
    Republic 12.12.1964

    1960+

    sudan?
    (Prime Ministers)
    Ismail Ashari 1954-1956

    None of them great but Nigeria seems to be the oldest


    <--- I made myself
     
  19. El Justo

    El Justo Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    Messages:
    12,945
    Location:
    Southern NJ
    nigeria it is!

    btw, i still have that cool eagles avatar you made for me...i had to take it down after they lost in the SB though. too much pain being a philly fan. it'll go back into use when camps open i guess.

    anyway, thanks Mistfit. you're like $$ in the bank :p
     
  20. Mistfit

    Mistfit Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Messages:
    3,798
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    The Uber-Googler strikes again !
     

Share This Page