Returning Civ Leaders-Elimination Thread

[Morningcalm]

Abraham Lincoln 23
Ashoka 25
Brennus 15
Canute 20 + 1 = 21 (Interesting enough to upvote, even if he would need a very development-focused leader ability to change the Norway civ to be a bit more flexible--one other problem is he's more linked to Denmark than Norway, but still, was basically the Viking Charlemagne, so that's neat.)
Charlemagne 17
Churchill 17
Cunobelin 17
Franklin D. Roosevelt 17
Frederick the Great 21
Hammurabi 23
Hannibal Barca 12
Hatshepsut 22
Henry VIII 22
Huayna Capac 23
Joao II 21
Julius Caesar 17
Justinian I 20
Kublai Khan 11 - 3 = 8 (Not as great as his ancestor.)
Louis XIV 22 21
Mansa Musa 25
Mehmed II 21
Montezuma II 20
Mursilis 18
Osman 17
Ragnar Lodbrok 15
Sitting Bull 20
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 20
Xerxes 14
Zara Yaqob 20

 

[Guandao]

Abraham Lincoln 23
Ashoka 25
Brennus 15
Canute 21
Charlemagne 17
Churchill 17
Cunobelin 17
Franklin D. Roosevelt 17
Frederick the Great 21
Hammurabi 23
Hannibal Barca (12+1)=13 I think him being a General shouldn't bar him from being Carthage's leader. He's one of the reasons they're famous in Western cultures and was a member of one of the prominent Carthaginian families. Plus few noteworthy alternate leaders exist (except for Dido, but I find it hard to believe she existed and is not a figment of Vergil's imagination), and maybe his dad Hamilcar. All the Hannos seem similar to me, and lack personality.
Hatshepsut 22
Henry VIII 22
Huayna Capac 23
Joao II 21
Julius Caesar 17
Justinian I 20
Kublai Khan 8
Louis XIV 22 21
Mansa Musa 25
Mehmed II 21
Montezuma II (20-3)=17 Wouldn't be necessary when Moctezuma I is the leader, plus he lost the empire to the Spanish...
Mursilis 18
Osman 17
Ragnar Lodbrok 15
Sitting Bull 20
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 20
Xerxes 14
Zara Yaqob 20

 

[Manifold]

Abraham Lincoln 23
Ashoka 25
Brennus 15
Canute 18 (21-3) who?
Charlemagne 17
Churchill 17
Cunobelin 17
Franklin D. Roosevelt 17
Frederick the Great 22 (21+1) Prussia for an own Civ!
Hammurabi 23
Hannibal Barca 13
Hatshepsut 22
Henry VIII 22
Huayna Capac 23
Joao II 21
Julius Caesar 17
Justinian I 20
Kublai Khan 8
Louis XIV 22 21
Mansa Musa 25
Mehmed II 21
Montezuma II 17
Mursilis 18
Osman 17
Ragnar Lodbrok 15
Sitting Bull 20
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 20
Xerxes 14
Zara Yaqob 20

 

[SMcM]

Canute 18 (21-3) who?

Personally I think that's an awful justification for a downvote. You're on the internet- google him! And, if you are trying to assert that Canute (AKA Cnut) is a bit of a nobody that really isn't at all fair. I'm sure he's at least as well known as Brennus and Tomyris and he must be better known than Gorgo.

Most significantly, his 'North Sea Empire' made him the most powerful Scandinavian monarch there ever has been, reckoned to be one of the most powerful monarchs of Europe in his time, second only to the Holy Roman Emperor. He is a significant figure in British history, and the story of King Canute and the waves is one that many British people will know. I imagine he will be similarly well known in Scandinavia.

Abraham Lincoln 23
Ashoka 25
Brennus 15
Canute 19 (18 + 1) Reasons above
Charlemagne 17
Churchill 17
Cunobelin 17
Franklin D. Roosevelt 17
Frederick the Great 22
Hammurabi 23
Hannibal Barca 13
Hatshepsut 22
Henry VIII 22
Huayna Capac 23
Joao II 21
Julius Caesar 17
Justinian I 20
Kublai Khan 8
Louis XIV 22 21
Mansa Musa 25
Mehmed II 21
Montezuma II 17
Mursilis 18
Osman 14 (17 - 3)- Would rather see a more powerful Ottoman leader- Mehmed II or Selim I (who would have the advantage of being a series first) or Suleiman again
Ragnar Lodbrok 15
Sitting Bull 20
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 20
Xerxes 14
Zara Yaqob 20

 

[Zaarin]

Abraham Lincoln 20 (23 - 3) -- I'd prefer to see an earlier American president if America gets a second leader. Ideally Adams, but I'd accept Washington. Both of those also have the advantage of not tearing the country in two...
Ashoka 25
Brennus 15
Canute 19
Charlemagne 17
Churchill 17
Cunobelin 17
Franklin D. Roosevelt 17
Frederick the Great 22
Hammurabi 23
Hannibal Barca 13
Hatshepsut 22
Henry VIII 22
Huayna Capac 23
Joao II 21
Julius Caesar 17
Justinian I 20
Kublai Khan 9 (8 + 1) -- Personally I think Kublai Khan is an excellent opportunity to portray the Mongols as more than ravaging warmongers--especially since the game already has more than enough of those.
Louis XIV 22
Mansa Musa 25
Mehmed II 21
Montezuma II 17
Mursilis 18
Osman 14
Ragnar Lodbrok 15
Sitting Bull 20
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 20
Xerxes 14
Zara Yaqob 20

 

[Siptah]

Abraham Lincoln 20
Ashoka 25
Brennus 15
Canute 19
Charlemagne 17
Churchill 17
Cunobelin 17
Franklin D. Roosevelt 17
Frederick the Great 22
Hammurabi 23
Hannibal Barca 13
Hatshepsut 19 (22-3) While I don't have anything against Hatshepsut, I want something different for Egypt, someone we didn't have yet. There's so many famous Pharaohs about which we know a lot: Snofru could be a (wonder-)builder, Tutmose III an expansionist/imperialist warrior, Seti I and Amenhotep III come to mind as allrounders, Sesotris III as diplomat or for growth, Akhenaten as a religious leader etc. No need to repeat themselves for Egypt.
Henry VIII 22
Huayna Capac 23
Joao II 22 (21+1) I'm always a bit sad that Portuguese history is often marginalized in education and people know much more about the British, Spanish, Dutch and French empires. But Portugal has a lot of intersting history. And Joao is one of the rulers I can imagine getting a bonus for settling new cities, something I am missing so far. A real expansionist civ that we don't have yet (yes, Rome gets roads and free monuments and Russia gets territory, but no one gets bonus for settling new cities per se).
Julius Caesar 17
Justinian I 20
Kublai Khan 9
Louis XIV 22
Mansa Musa 25
Mehmed II 21
Montezuma II 17
Mursilis 18
Osman 14
Ragnar Lodbrok 15
Sitting Bull 20
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 20
Xerxes 14
Zara Yaqob 20

 

[God of Kings]

Joao II 22 (21+1) I'm always a bit sad that Portuguese history is often marginalized in education and people know much more about the British, Spanish, Dutch and French empires. But Portugal has a lot of intersting history. And Joao is one of the rulers I can imagine getting a bonus for settling new cities, something I am missing so far. A real expansionist civ that we don't have yet (yes, Rome gets roads and free monuments and Russia gets territory, but no one gets bonus for settling new cities per se).

Does England getting a free melee unit when founding cities outside its home continent count?

 

[Siptah]

Does England getting a free melee unit when founding cities outside its home continent count?

Sure, I keep forgetting that! I was actually thinking of a free trader for cities on foreign continents for Joao if you have capacity or something like that. Or a production boost in the capital for settlers, or settlers don't need population etc.

 

[Guandao]

Abraham Lincoln 20
Ashoka 25
Brennus 15
Canute 19
Charlemagne 17
Churchill 17
Cunobelin 17
Franklin D. Roosevelt 17
Frederick the Great 22
Hammurabi 23
Hannibal Barca 13
Hatshepsut 19
Henry VIII 22
Huayna Capac 23
Joao II 22
Julius Caesar 17
Justinian I (20+1)=21 Would not mind him returning instead of Theodora...though I prefer a medieval Byzantine leader.
Kublai Khan 9
Louis XIV 22
Mansa Musa 25
Mehmed II 21
Montezuma II 17
Mursilis 18
Osman 14
Ragnar Lodbrok 15
Sitting Bull 20
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 20-3=17 I don't find the founder of Goryeo as interesting as other Korean leaders (Sejong, Seondeok, Gwanggaeto, for example), visually, he won't look that much different from Qin Shi Huang, except for the color of his clothing
Xerxes 14
Zara Yaqob 20

 

[Pythakoreas]

Edit: An amazing set of coincidences sometimes do happen. While I was writing my reply a previous forumer voted for the same leaders.

Abraham Lincoln 20
Ashoka 25
Brennus 15
Canute 19
Charlemagne 17
Churchill 17
Cunobelin 17
Franklin D. Roosevelt 17
Frederick the Great 22
Hammurabi 23
Hannibal Barca 13
Hatshepsut 19
Henry VIII 22
Huayna Capac 23
Joao II 22
Julius Caesar 17
Justinian I 21+1=22 Either him or Theodora. Such amazing rulers with so much varieties for possible bonuses.
Kublai Khan 9
Louis XIV 22
Mansa Musa 25
Mehmed II 21
Montezuma II 17
Mursilis 18
Osman 14
Ragnar Lodbrok 15
Sitting Bull 20
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 17-3=14 Not bad but still not the best possible choice for a Korean leader. Civ5's Sejong and many more kings later historical periods are more fitting. Even his contemporaries (e.g. Gung Ye) are more interesting than this guy.
Xerxes 14
Zara Yaqob 20

 

[Pythakoreas]

Hm? Did you just vote for the same leaders whilst I was writing my reply? What a coincidence!

 

[Morningcalm]

Hm? Did you just vote for the same leaders whilst I was writing my reply? What a coincidence!

If you are voting the same way as Guandao, Justinian should be 22, and Wang Kon 14.

 

[Morningcalm]

Abraham Lincoln 20
Ashoka 25
Brennus 15
Canute 19
Charlemagne 17
Churchill 17
Cunobelin 17
Franklin D. Roosevelt 17
Frederick the Great 22
Hammurabi 23
Hannibal Barca 13
Hatshepsut 19
Henry VIII 22
Huayna Capac 23
Joao II 22
Julius Caesar 17
Justinian I 22 + 1 = 23 (An energetic ruler with a fascinating history (link to YouTube Extra History series) and unbridled ambition to restore the Roman Empire. His renovatio imperii could form a credible agenda in-game. Justinian's wife Theodora is one of the few female rulers in Civ thus far who could realistically be portrayed as a leader of an empire (unlike, say, Eleanor Roosevelt), but Justinian is a fascinating ruler also. Spiritual and militaristic, and his Justinian Code is notable for its legal influence, even to the point where I came across it while reading for class in a U.S. law school)
Kublai Khan 9 - 3 = 6 (Unsuccessful militarily, and not just in Japan, though he did conquer southern China. Culturally Chinese, but fought a Mongolian civil war, and his main claim to fame was hosting Marco Polo. Not as great as his ancestor, or the mighty warrior queen Mandukhai Khatun, who fought while pregnant, or Toregene Khatun, who basically claimed power from the drunken Ogedei, and saw numerous successful conquests.)
Louis XIV 22
Mansa Musa 25
Mehmed II 21
Montezuma II 17
Mursilis 18
Osman 14
Ragnar Lodbrok 15
Sitting Bull 20
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 14
Xerxes 14
Zara Yaqob 20

 

[Kimiimaro]

Abraham Lincoln 20
Ashoka 25
Brennus 15
Canute 19
Charlemagne 17
Churchill 17
Cunobelin 17
Franklin D. Roosevelt 17
Frederick the Great 22
Hammurabi 23
Hannibal Barca 13
Hatshepsut 19
Henry VIII 22
Huayna Capac 23
João II 22+1=23 - If Portugal will be added in game, João would be a nice choice as a leader.
Julius Caesar 17
Justinian I 23
Kublai Khan 6-3=3 - Genghis Khan is much better choice.
Louis XIV 22
Mansa Musa 25
Mehmed II 21
Montezuma II 17
Mursilis 18
Osman 14
Ragnar Lodbrok 15
Sitting Bull 20
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 14
Xerxes 14
Zara Yaqob 20

 

[Manifold]

Personally I think that's an awful justification for a downvote. You're on the internet- google him! And, if you are trying to assert that Canute (AKA Cnut) is a bit of a nobody that really isn't at all fair. I'm sure he's at least as well known as Brennus and Tomyris and he must be better known than Gorgo.

Most significantly, his 'North Sea Empire' made him the most powerful Scandinavian monarch there ever has been, reckoned to be one of the most powerful monarchs of Europe in his time, second only to the Holy Roman Emperor. He is a significant figure in British history, and the story of King Canute and the waves is one that many British people will know. I imagine he will be similarly well known in Scandinavia.

Ok, now I know you mean Cnut the Great from Denmark - I like him as leader for Denmark. Maybe we can call him in this list: Canute/Cnut the Great!


Abraham Lincoln 20
Ashoka 25
Brennus 15
Canute/Cnut the Great 20 (19+1) see above
Charlemagne 17
Churchill 17
Cunobelin 17
Franklin D. Roosevelt 17
Frederick the Great 22
Hammurabi 23
Hannibal Barca 13
Hatshepsut 19
Henry VIII 19 (22-3) I dont know why, maybe because he is just unimportant
Huayna Capac 23
João II 23
Julius Caesar 17
Justinian I 23
Kublai Khan 3
Louis XIV 22
Mansa Musa 25
Mehmed II 21
Montezuma II 17
Mursilis 18
Osman 14
Ragnar Lodbrok 15
Sitting Bull 20
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 14
Xerxes 14
Zara Yaqob 20

 

[SMcM]

Ok, now I know you mean Cnut the Great from Denmark - I like him as leader for Denmark. Maybe we can call him in this list: Canute/Cnut the Great!

Fair enough on Cnut- I personally prefer referring to him as that anyway as Canute sounds more anglicised and less authentic to me. However, I'm sorry to scrutinise your every post, but I don't really agree that Henry VIII is unimportant- under him England split from the Catholic Church; a very significant event in terms of the division between England and much of continental Europe, a division which to this day has major consequences. Definitely I'd say Henry was more important than Brennus and Ragnar (who in reality was just a viking that raided Paris, and not the king of Denmark).


Abraham Lincoln 20
Ashoka 26 (25 + 1) Fed up of Gandhi. We need someone else, and who better than Ashoka?
Brennus 15
Canute/Cnut the Great 20
Charlemagne 17
Churchill 17
Cunobelin 17
Franklin D. Roosevelt 17
Frederick the Great 22
Hammurabi 23
Hannibal Barca 13
Hatshepsut 19
Henry VIII 19
Huayna Capac 23
João II 23
Julius Caesar 17
Justinian I 23
Kublai Khan 3
Louis XIV 22
Mansa Musa 25
Mehmed II 21
Montezuma II 17
Mursilis 18
Osman 14
Ragnar Lodbrok 15
Sitting Bull 20
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 14
Xerxes 11 (14 - 3) We have Cyrus so arguably an alternative Persian leader should come from a different dynasty or time period
Zara Yaqob 20

 

[Siptah]

Abraham Lincoln 20
Ashoka 26
Brennus 15
Canute/Cnut the Great 20
Charlemagne 17
Churchill 17
Cunobelin 17
Franklin D. Roosevelt 17
Frederick the Great 23 (22+3) Yes, please. Emphasizing the cultural aspect of Germany.
Hammurabi 23
Hannibal Barca 13
Hatshepsut 19
Henry VIII 19
Huayna Capac 23
João II 23
Julius Caesar 17
Justinian I 23
Kublai Khan 3
Louis XIV 22
Mansa Musa 25
Mehmed II 21
Montezuma II 14 (17-3) really no need for a second leader for the Aztecs and it would just be confusing to have two Montezumas. Renaming one to Moctezuma while keeping the other with this name wouldn't help.
Mursilis 18
Osman 14
Ragnar Lodbrok 15
Sitting Bull 20
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 14
Xerxes 11
Zara Yaqob 20

 

[Zaarin]

Abraham Lincoln 20
Ashoka 26
Brennus 15
Canute/Cnut the Great 20
Charlemagne 17
Churchill 17
Cunobelin 17
Franklin D. Roosevelt 17
Frederick the Great 23
Hammurabi 23
Hannibal Barca 13
Hatshepsut 19
Henry VIII 19
Huayna Capac 23
João II 23
Julius Caesar 17
Justinian I 23
Kublai Khan 3
Louis XIV 23 (22 + 1) -- Just imagine his intro: "Je suis Louis XIV, par la grâce de Dieu, roi de France et de Navarre, roi très-chrétien. L'état, c'est moi."
Mansa Musa 25
Mehmed II 21
Montezuma II 14
Mursilis 18
Osman 14
Ragnar Lodbrok 15
Sitting Bull 17 (20 - 3) -- The return of Sitting Bull would mean the return of the Sioux; no thanks.
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 14
Xerxes 11
Zara Yaqob 20

 

[Guandao]

Abraham Lincoln 20
Ashoka 26
Brennus 15
Canute/Cnut the Great 20
Charlemagne 17
Churchill 17
Cunobelin 17
Franklin D. Roosevelt 17
Frederick the Great 23
Hammurabi 23
Hannibal Barca (13+1)=14 General or not, he is too famous in Carthaginian history not to receive the voice acting treatment. It's no different than Gandhi leading India, or Sitting Bull leading the Sioux. I really don't want a repeat of Dido, whom I find boring.
Hatshepsut 19
Henry VIII 19
Huayna Capac 23
João II 23
Julius Caesar 17
Justinian I 23
Kublai Khan 3
Louis XIV 23
Mansa Musa 25
Mehmed II 21
Montezuma II 14
Mursilis (18-3)=15 I find Suppiluliuma to be a more interesting Hittite ruler than his son.
Osman 14
Ragnar Lodbrok 15
Sitting Bull 17
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 14
Xerxes 11
Zara Yaqob 20

 

[Kimiimaro]

Abraham Lincoln 20
Ashoka 26
Brennus 15
Canute/Cnut the Great 20
Charlemagne 17
Churchill 17
Cunobelin 17
Franklin D. Roosevelt 17
Frederick the Great 23
Hammurabi 23
Hannibal Barca 14
Hatshepsut 19
Henry VIII 19
Huayna Capac 23
João II 23
Julius Caesar 17
Justinian I 23
Kublai Khan 3-3=0 (ELIMINATED) - Genghis is better choice.
Louis XIV 23
Mansa Musa 25+1=26 - Go, richest man in history!
Mehmed II 21
Montezuma II 14
Mursilis 15
Osman 14
Ragnar Lodbrok 15
Sitting Bull 17
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 14
Xerxes 11
Zara Yaqob 20