Returning Civs - Elimination Game

[Liufeng]

Assyria 20
Austrians 11
Babylonians 22
Byzantine 21
Carthaginians 17
Celts 6
Dutch 25
Ethiopians 21
Hittites 23
Huns 8
Incas 27
Indonesians 15
Iroquois 15
Khmer 23
Koreans 22
Malians 23
Mayans 22
Mongols 22
Moroccans 17 +1 = 18 I really liked their inclusion, especially that the Maghreb region was badly represented. Besides, they were the very cool desert and trade civ !
Ottoman Turks 21
Polynesians 17
Portuguese 16
Shoshone 9
Siamese 20
Sioux 14
Songhai 20
Swedish 17
Zulu 12 - 3 = 9 I actually cannot believe they're still in the poll ... They're only here for two reasons : they won ONE battle against the british (and a movie was made about it) and for the tradition. Basically, they're importance is strictly in the anglosaxon world but worldwide (I dare to even say subsaharian Africa wide) they're importance as a civ is near 0. I'd far prefer to have Zimbabwe or Swahili (even though they're more east Africa rather than South).

Moroccans 20-3=17 We already have pirates in game, they're called barbarians

What do you mean ? I don't really understand ...

 

[Xandinho]

Assyria 20
Austrians 11
Babylonians 22
Byzantine 21
Carthaginians 17
Celts 6
Dutch 25
Ethiopians 21
Hittites 23
Huns 8
Incas 27
Indonesians 15
Iroquois 15
Khmer 23
Koreans 22
Malians 23
Mayans 22
Mongols 22
Moroccans 18
Ottoman Turks 21 + 1 = 22 It does not need much explanation. They were one of the most expressive empires in history.
Polynesians 17
Portuguese 16
Shoshone 9
Siamese 20
Sioux 14
Songhai 20
Swedish 17
Zulu 9 - 3 = 6 I agree with the previous post. I hava an impression that they are included only because they were historical adversaries of Great Britain. Any other civ on this list is a better option.

 

[devonitar]

Assyria 20
Austrians 11
Babylonians 22
Byzantine 21
Carthaginians 17
Celts 6
Dutch 25
Ethiopians 21
Hittites 23
Huns 8 - 3 = 5 (Same reason as before. I wanted to do the same with the Zulu, but they seem to be already on their way out.)
Incas 27
Indonesians 15
Iroquois 15
Khmer 23
Koreans 22
Malians 23 + 1 = 24 (Africa, like Americas, desperately needs more representation, and what is better than one of the richest country ever?)
Mayans 22
Mongols 22
Moroccans 18
Ottoman Turks 22
Polynesians 17
Portuguese 16
Shoshone 9
Siamese 20
Sioux 14
Songhai 20
Swedish 17
Zulu 6

 

[Uberfrog]

Assyria 20
Austrians 11
Babylonians 22
Byzantine 21
Carthaginians 17
Celts 3 = (6 - 3)
Dutch 25
Ethiopians 21
Hittites 23
Huns 5
Incas 27
Indonesians 15
Iroquois 15
Khmer 23
Koreans 22
Malians 24
Mayans 22
Mongols 22
Moroccans 18
Ottoman Turks 22
Polynesians 17
Portuguese 16
Shoshone 9
Siamese 20
Sioux 14
Songhai 20
Swedish 17
Zulu 7 = (6 + 1)

While the Zulu are almost certainly doomed, I want to throw them a small bone. A minor civ in terms of impact on world history, no doubt, but Shaka is a Civ staple I quite like, and certainly fills in an underrepresented region without an obvious alternative - except perhaps Great Zimbabwe, which is probably better as city-state (or, weirdly, a wonder as in Civ VI). Tilt at ahistorical and anglocentric windmills if you must, but I fear removing a fan favourite African civ isn't the way to do it.

As for the Celts, I'm not against a Celtic civ in principle (my vote would be for the Gauls), but vague linguistic and cultural blob civs should be thrown out. A Welsh-speaking Boudicca raising an army of Pictish warriors in a ceilidh hall in Edinburgh? What a car crash!

 

[IgorS]

Assyria 20
Austrians 11
Babylonians 22
Byzantine 21
Carthaginians 17
Celts 3 - 3 = 0 - Get out of here, and don't come back unless you are something more specific like Gauls, or Britons.
Dutch 25
Ethiopians 21
Hittites 23
Huns 5
Incas 27
Indonesians 15
Iroquois 15
Khmer 23
Koreans 22
Malians 24
Mayans 22
Mongols 22
Moroccans 18
Ottoman Turks 22
Polynesians 17
Portuguese 16
Shoshone 9
Siamese 20
Sioux 14
Songhai 20
Swedish 17
Zulu 7 + 1 = 8 - Couldn't save Venice and Denmark (so underrated, and who ever said Venice would return as a super city state, and not as a civ with cities?), so I'll try to save the Zulu

 

[The Kingmaker]

Assyrians 20
Austrians 11
Babylonians 22+1=23 Another vote for an important mainstay of Civ.
Byzantines 21
Carthaginians 17
Dutch 25
Ethiopians 21
Hittites 23
Huns 5-3=2 Their implementation in Civ5 left much to be desired. Firaxis should implement a "play as barbarians" option if they want to revisit Attila. They should be next to go.
Incas 27
Indonesians 15
Iroquois 15
Khmer 23
Koreans 22
Malians 24
Mayans 22
Mongols 22
Moroccans 18
Ottoman Turks 22
Polynesians 17
Portuguese 16
Shoshone 9
Siamese 20
Sioux 14
Songhai 20
Swedish 17
Zulu 8

 

[IgorS]

I took 3 points off the Celts and added a point to the Zulus before your post.

 

[The Kingmaker]

I took 3 points off the Celts and added a point to the Zulus before your post.

Post has been corrected due to the cross-post.

 

[cammcken]

Assyrians 20
Austrians 11
Babylonians 23
Byzantines 21
Carthaginians 17
Dutch 25-3=22 Personally, I see the Netherlands as more of a follower than a leader when compared to the other European countries in the region. But I won't rag on them too long; just this one downvote.
Ethiopians 21
Hittites 23
Huns 2
Incas 27
Indonesians 15
Iroquois 15+1=16 You have to admit, Civ was designed for empire-builders, even if it has taken strides to diversify since. I was going to use this argument for the Incas, but they don't seem to need it. While the Iroquois Confederacy wasn't an empire, it had huge influence and historical importance over the region, as well as a complex government. They may be getting stale to some people, but to represent the Americas they have to stay. It's a shame there aren't better records of other Pre-Columbian North Americans.
Khmer 23
Koreans 22
Malians 24
Mayans 22
Mongols 22
Moroccans 18
Ottoman Turks 22
Polynesians 17
Portuguese 16
Shoshone 9
Siamese 20
Sioux 14
Songhai 20
Swedish 17
Zulu 8

 

[SMcM]

@SMcM: Just a brief correction here. I'm well aware of Venice's additional territories in former times.

Just in case you are not aware, in Civ5, the Venetian civ had the idiosyncratic feature of being unable to found additional cities besides its capital, which is what was I was referring to.

It made for some unusual gameplay and was pretty divisive for the fans.

I am aware of this, but I did not realise you were talking about game-play in Civ 5. Anyway, to call Venice a one city Civ in Civ 5 isn't quite accurate considering that it could make city-states puppets, but admittedly that does not give you the level of control you might want.

Assyrians 20
Austrians 8 (11 - 3) Considering the very strong link to Germany I'd only include Austria when other regions outside of Europe are seen to have fair representation.
Babylonians 23
Byzantines 21
Carthaginians 17
Dutch 22 (I think that last post is pretty unfair on the Dutch, and very vague as well)
Ethiopians 21
Hittites 23
Huns 2 (I personally think they were very fun to play as in Civ VI)
Incas 27
Indonesians 15
Iroquois 16
Khmer 23
Koreans 22
Malians 24
Mayans 22
Mongols 22
Moroccans 18
Ottoman Turks 22
Polynesians 17
Portuguese 17 (16 + 1) We have Brazil and Kongo, and no Portugal?
Shoshone 9
Siamese 20
Sioux 14
Songhai 20
Swedish 17
Zulu 8

@SMcM: I think you may need to correct your new total for Austria. 11-3 should equal 8, not 9.

Sorry, have corrected that now.

 

[The Kingmaker]

@SMcM: I think you may need to correct your new total for Austria. 11-3 should equal 8, not 9.

 

[Dirk Hartog]

Assyrians 20
Austrians 8
Babylonians 23
Byzantines 21
Carthaginians 17
Dutch 22+1=23 The FIRST modern republic, the FIRST stock exchange, had the world's best navy (before Britian), had a MONOPOLY on the spice trade, and you say the Netherlands is a follower! How did you come to that conclusion? It sure looks like a trendsetter to me!
Ethiopians 21
Hittites 23
Huns 2
Incas 27
Indonesians 15
Iroquois 16
Khmer 23
Koreans 22
Malians 24
Mayans 22
Mongols 22
Moroccans 18-3=15 Same as earlier post
Ottoman Turks 22
Polynesians 17
Portuguese 17
Shoshone 9
Siamese 20
Sioux 14
Songhai 20
Swedish 17
Zulu 8

Edit: got rid of unwanted content from the copy/paste of scores.

 

[Morningcalm]

Assyrians 20
Austrians 8 - 3 = 5 (We really do not need them back. I like Maria and coffee houses but we need more diverse civs from less-represented areas before we decide to add yet another European civ to the mix. Also, while distinct from Germany, they do share more similarities than say, the Ottoman Turks and the Sioux do, so Austria gets a downvote. Sad, since I would like to see a chocolate torte-inspired achievement some day in Civ).
Babylonians 23
Byzantines 21
Carthaginians 17
Dutch 23
Ethiopians 21
Hittites 23
Huns 2
Incas 27
Indonesians 15
Iroquois 16
Khmer 23
Koreans 22
Malians 24
Mayans 22
Mongols 22
Moroccans 15
Ottoman Turks 22
Polynesians 17
Portuguese 17
Shoshone 9
Siamese 20
Sioux 14 + 1 =15 (Fierce warriors and prototypical native American civ, given how heavily even cowboys and Indians was influenced by the stereotypical Sioux appearance. We had Sitting Bull in Civ IV, but he was leading a generic and lackluster "Native American" civ. We can do better in VI with a more specific set of bonuses and agendas. I would normally prioritize Iroquois over them but I feel we have had Iroquois more often in the last few games than the Sioux.)
Songhai 20
Swedish 17
Zulu 8

 

[Guandao]

Assyrians 20
Austrians 5
Babylonians 23
Byzantines 21
Carthaginians 17
Dutch 23
Ethiopians 21
Hittites 23
Huns (2-3)=0 And the Huns are out, not looking forward to see them return
Incas 27
Indonesians (15+1)=16 I find pre-Colonial Indonesian history interesting (Majapahit, Srivijaya etc), and I like gamelan music
Iroquois 16
Khmer 23
Koreans 22
Malians 24
Mayans 22
Mongols 22
Moroccans 15
Ottoman Turks 22
Polynesians 17
Portuguese 17
Shoshone 9
Siamese 20
Sioux 15
Songhai 20
Swedish 17
Zulu 8

 

[Orange1861]

Assyria 20
While the Zulu are almost certainly doomed, I want to throw them a small bone. A minor civ in terms of impact on world history, no doubt, but Shaka is a Civ staple I quite like, and certainly fills in an underrepresented region without an obvious alternative - except perhaps Great Zimbabwe, which is probably better as city-state (or, weirdly, a wonder as in Civ VI). Tilt at ahistorical and anglocentric windmills if you must, but I fear removing a fan favourite African civ isn't the way to do it.

What about the Boer republics? What about the other regional tribes in that region? The Zulus were the strongest tribe in that area and were able to resist the British. That is their main historical significance.

 

[Siptah]

Assyrians 20
Austrians 5
Babylonians 23
Byzantines 21
Carthaginians 17
Dutch 23
Ethiopians 21
Hittites 23
Incas 27
Indonesians 16
Iroquois 16
Khmer 23
Koreans 22
Malians 24
Mayans 22
Mongols 22
Moroccans 16 (15 + 1) I really like Morocco and Berber culture. I was happy for their inclusion. The Maghreb is always overlooked anyway.
Ottoman Turks 22
Polynesians 14 (17 - 3) While fun to play in V their important (and logical) bonuses from that game are already used up.
Portuguese 17
Shoshone 9
Siamese 20
Sioux 15
Songhai 20
Swedish 17
Zulu 8

 

[Zaarin]

Assyrians 20
Austrians 5
Babylonians 23
Byzantines 21
Carthaginians 17
Dutch 23
Ethiopians 21
Hittites 23
Incas 27
Indonesians 16
Iroquois 16
Khmer 23
Koreans 22
Malians 24
Mayans 22
Mongols 22
Moroccans 16
Ottoman Turks 22
Polynesians 14
Portuguese 17
Shoshone 9
Siamese 21 (20 + 1) -- I might be alone but I'd like to see them return.
Sioux 15
Songhai 20
Swedish 17
Zulu 5 (8 - 3) -- Sorry, Shaka, but we're at angry stick-waving quota with Mvemba.

 

[Uberfrog]

What about the Boer republics? What about the other regional tribes in that region? The Zulus were the strongest tribe in that area and were able to resist the British. That is their main historical significance.

The Zulus were the strongest tribe in that region because Shaka had formed a tightly organised and militarised kingdom that dominated the region by force. The Zulu conquests and the conquests of an offshoot kingdom (the Mtabele) following Shaka's reforms had a devastating effect on the population of the wider region. There's some impact for you that has nothing to do with the British. It's obviously true that their (perhaps disproportionate) status has mostly to do with their victory at Isandlwana and the desperate British resistance at Rorke's Drift, but as far as southern African indigenous civilisations go, the Zulu stand above the others. The Boer Republics could be interesting, but hardly counter any irritation people might have with eurocentricity.

 

[Turrdy]

Assyrians 20
Austrians 2 (5-3) - I'd rather have Switzerland for once (I mean look at their flags: Austria big minus, Switzerland big plus)
Babylonians 23
Byzantines 21
Carthaginians 17
Dutch 23
Ethiopians 21
Hittites 23
Incas 27
Indonesians 16
Iroquois 16
Khmer 23
Koreans 22
Malians 24
Mayans 22
Mongols 22
Moroccans 16
Ottoman Turks 22
Polynesians 14
Portuguese 17
Shoshone 9
Siamese 21
Sioux 15
Songhai 20
Swedish 17
Zulu 6 (5+1) - I like Shaka, he's a classic in civ games. Nice warmonger too.

 

[Manifold]

Assyrians 20
Austrians 2
Babylonians 23
Byzantines 21
Carthaginians 17
Dutch 23
Ethiopians 21
Hittites 23
Incas 27
Indonesians 16
Iroquois 16
Khmer 20 (23-3) no, this time is for Vietnam
Koreans 22
Malians 24
Mayans 22
Mongols 22
Moroccans 16
Ottoman Turks 22
Polynesians 14
Portuguese 17
Shoshone 9
Siamese 21
Sioux 15
Songhai 20
Swedish 17
Zulu 7 (6+1) - I love Shaka, he's a classic in civ games. Nice warmonger too.