[R&F] Rise and Fall Screenshot discussion

[Eagle Pursuit]

Portuguese architecture is far more broad than you're allowing it to be. I personally see a feitoria, though I also have a degree in Portuguese & Lusophone Studies so there may be a big douse of hope in this for me. Feitorias were built all over the world & got a lot of influence from the area of the globe the feitoria was built. I also offer you the Palácio Nacional da Pena, which shatters conventional knowledge of a white-washed Manueline style.


Feitoria at Ormus (Hormuz):
View attachment 481874

Feitoria at Bom Baïm (Mumbai):
View attachment 481875

Feitoria at Cascais (Cidadela de Cascais):
View attachment 481876

Feitoria at Banguecoque (Bangkok):
View attachment 481877

Feitoria at São Vicente, Cabo Verde:
View attachment 481878

Palácio Nacional da Pena:
View attachment 481879

your links are broken

Portuguese architecture is far more broad than you're allowing it to be. I personally see a feitoria, though I also have a degree in Portuguese & Lusophone Studies so there may be a big douse of hope in this for me. Feitorias were built all over the world & got a lot of influence from the area of the globe the feitoria was built. I also offer you the Palácio Nacional da Pena, which shatters conventional knowledge of a white-washed Manueline style.


Feitoria at Ormus (Hormuz):
View attachment 481874

Feitoria at Bom Baïm (Mumbai):
View attachment 481875

Feitoria at Cascais (Cidadela de Cascais):
View attachment 481876

Feitoria at Banguecoque (Bangkok):
View attachment 481877

Feitoria at São Vicente, Cabo Verde:
View attachment 481878

Palácio Nacional da Pena:
View attachment 481879

I googled the names since your links are broken. This is interesting:

Spoiler :

[\spoiler]
It's from Cascais. That dome's ornament is similar to the one in the mystery improvement.

 

[eso12por8]

I googled the names since your links are broken.

Yeah I noticed the forum was having difficulty allowing me to add so many photos, so I redid it for people to be able to see them all. (hopefully)
I'm glad you noticed the Portuguese dome.

 

[ferretbacon]

I could believe that that's a feitoria. It's certainly got that overall look of being one: fortified, on the coast, and possesses a dock. Definitely has the elements of a feitoria as they've been depicted in a civ game before, but with an architectural style that's new.

But why would it be in an American city? Can it be built in foreign territory? Is there a Portuguese city directly south of the American capital that owns that tile? Is it some kind of wonder instead?

 

[Guatenadian]

I could believe that that's a feitoria. But why would it be in an American city? Can it be built in foreign territory? Is there a Portuguese city directly south of the American capital that owns that tile? Is it some kind of wonder instead?

Well back in Civ5, Portugal's unique improvement was a Feitoria and it could only be constructed on City-State land. Perhaps this is an "upgraded" version of that?

 

[eso12por8]

I could believe that that's a feitoria. But why would it be in an American city? Can it be built in foreign territory? Is there a Portuguese city directly south of the American capital that owns that tile? Is it some kind of wonder instead?

This is a mechanic I'm genuinely curious about as well. The intent of a feitoria, historically, is to exploit a resource from anywhere coastal. If this photo is any indication, you may only be able to build them on resources with a coastal bound. On top of that, historically, a feitoria is supposed to be sustainable. This means it should technically be able to exist on its own without being in bounds of a civ (something which never happened in the game, just pointing it out). Perhaps it will only serve a viable function should that civ not demolish it.

I've taken issue at the fact unique buildings disappear upon conquer. Perhaps this is also a fix on that?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

That "feitoria" is on a desert tile, so those citrus trees are part of the improvement, not a luxury resource on the tile.

I'm working out a theory that Portugal can place them inside other civs' territory where it provides some benefit to both civs.

Also, if it were a Wonder, there would be road paths around it.

 

[eso12por8]

That "feitoria" is on a desert tile, so those citrus trees are part of the improvement, not a luxury resource on the tile.

Oooo good catch. Oranges grow in Portugal & Spain, though curious why they'd be planted anywhere else.

I'm working out a theory that Portugal can place them inside other civs' territory where it provides some benefit to both civs.

This is exactly where my mind was going.

 

[eso12por8]

I will also offer that Portugal may make sense in terms of gameplay, as they have nothing but highs & lows in their history... The first global superpower forced into a war for the succession. In mid-crisis the land was placed in Spain's trust, who lost the Armada to the British (defending the Dutch for independence). Since Portugal was still embroiled in turmoil, and Spain done for, the British plucked the feitorias all the way to India & gave the Dutch the Portuguese possessions in Indonesia and in the Caribbean. Such an unfortunate circumstance. To add insult to injury the royal family in an act of desperation actually moved the capital to Rio de Janeiro to safeguard an invasion. Moving a capital like we used to be able to in Civ II or III would be another interesting retro add-on.

 

[darko82]

This video breaks down all three screenshots into detail.

 

[Uberfrog]

Portuguese architecture is far more broad than you're allowing it to be. I personally see a feitoria, though I also have a degree in Portuguese & Lusophone Studies so there may be a big douse of hope in this for me. Feitorias were built all over the world & got a lot of influence from the area of the globe the feitoria was built. I also offer you the Palácio Nacional da Pena, which shatters conventional knowledge of a white-washed Manueline style.

Oh sure, I didn’t meant to suggest that all Portuguese buildings or even feitorias look the same. It’s just... this is Firaxis we’re talking about here, and generally they base their art a) off a specific real-world example and b) to unambiguously look like what it’s supposed to represent. Hence why I think, if it was a Portuguese improvement, it would have a more “conventional” Portuguese appearance, like the ones in Civ V and the AoE 2 expansion.

Plus the sheer scale of the building in its tile looks more like a wonder than an improvement to me. Although the fact we still haven’t identified its inspiration makes me doubt that too.

The Pena Palace would also make a fantastic wonder, I visited it as a child and was amazed at all the different styles that somehow merge into a single spectacular building.

 

[Siptah]

I really wouldn't put too much emphasis on the fact that it's an American city. We had so many strange thing in the First Look videos. World builder shenanigans seem more likely to me than a UI that can be built in foreign territory.
@eso12por8 I stil have trouble seeing a Portuguese UI in it, though I see a Portuguese influence. UIs usually scream the name of a civ, and this one doesn't. Also, while your pictures offer different styles of Feitoria buildings, none is in the style of the screenshot. I think it is more likely something from KiIwa (surprising myself here). The architectural style seems to fit rather good. Someone has already suggested that the small fortress annex building is close to the Kilwa Kisiwani Fort. The port like thing looks close to an annex-building of the palace there. When I first read it, I didn't believe it, because all reconstructions seem not like a fortress. However, Husuni Kubwa even means "Great Fort" apparently. So while I can't find a reconstruction that looks like the what we have in the screenshot, the overall style may fit - and if you read a description of the building and not look at reconstructions, it seems to fit as well. It may also be a hunched up thing, made out of the Makutani, Husuni Kubwa and Husuni Ndogo.
First I was going to say that it also fits because Kilwa was influenced heavily by Portuguese, Persians and Omani to make us all feel good... but as it seems, the buildings was built way before the Portuguese and Omani arrived.

 

[Cerilis]

That "feitoria" is on a desert tile, so those citrus trees are part of the improvement, not a luxury resource on the tile.

I'm working out a theory that Portugal can place them inside other civs' territory where it provides some benefit to both civs.

Also, if it were a Wonder, there would be road paths around it.

There are actually roads around. Look closely! It's hard to see on the desert tile, but take a look at that up left corner.

 

[eso12por8]

There are actually roads around. Look closely! It's hard to see on the desert tile, but take a look at that up left corner.

I was waiting for someone else to say something because I looked last night & I saw what I thought to be a road heading south.

@eso12por8 I stil have trouble seeing a Portuguese UI in it, though I see a Portuguese influence. UIs usually scream the name of a civ, and this one doesn't. Also, while your pictures offer different styles of Feitoria buildings, none is in the style of the screenshot. I think it is more likely something from KiIwa (surprising myself here). The architectural style seems to fit rather good. Someone has already suggested that the small fortress annex building is close to the Kilwa Kisiwani Fort. The port like thing looks close to an annex-building of the palace there. When I first read it, I didn't believe it, because all reconstructions seem not like a fortress. However, Husuni Kubwa even means "Great Fort" apparently. So while I can't find a reconstruction that looks like the what we have in the screenshot, the overall style may fit - and if you read a description of the building and not look at reconstructions, it seems to fit as well. It may also be a hunched up thing, made out of the Makutani, Husuni Kubwa and Husuni Ndogo.
First I was going to say that it also fits because Kilwa was influenced heavily by Portuguese, Persians and Omani to make us all feel good... but as it seems, the buildings was built way before the Portuguese and Omani arrived.

You may very well be correct that it is the ruined palace of Kilwa with the feitoria influence being the fort-port aspect. This was documented in the Portuguese National Epic Os Lusíadas. In fact it's one of my favorite cantos. Either way, the part that was of the Kilwa Sultanate is currently in ruins, whereas the Portuguese counterpart remains. We know it was made of coral, but the design of the palace is unknown. I sooner see Oman than Kilwa, though either way I'm totally game for East Africa.

 

[shaglio]

I really wouldn't put too much emphasis on the fact that it's an American city. We had so many strange thing in the First Look videos. World builder shenanigans seem more likely to me than a UI that can be built in foreign territory.

World builder shenanigans was my first thought too. Besides, with the existence of Districts, I doubt they'd give Portugal the ability to build a tile improvement in foreign territory. I'd be pretty irate if I had the perfect spot for a District in one of my cities, but the Portugal AI came and plopped down a Feitoria right on that exact spot before I could.

 

[Cerilis]

World builder shenanigans or not, i kinda doubt they would make such a blatant mistake as settling down one civ's UI in another's territory.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

World builder shenanigans or not, i kinda doubt they would make such a blatant mistake as settling down one civ's UI in another's territory.

I agree. If it is a Feitoria, placing it in an American city was done intentionally.

 

[Nev_ti]

the "feitoria" looks so big and detailed to be a improvement , i am sure that is a wonder related with oranges

 

[IdiotStyle]

Maybe it's a wonder giving a luxury ressource or maybe even 4 like some of those merchants.

 

[Cerilis]

Maybe it's a wonder giving a luxury ressource or maybe even 4 like some of those merchants.

Trying to figure out what it does might be a bit premature if we dont know what it is.

 

[Leyrann]

World builder shenanigans was my first thought too. Besides, with the existence of Districts, I doubt they'd give Portugal the ability to build a tile improvement in foreign territory. I'd be pretty irate if I had the perfect spot for a District in one of my cities, but the Portugal AI came and plopped down a Feitoria right on that exact spot before I could.

Could be that you can only place in on a luxery resource and both civs get access to the resource. That would mean you can't build anything but a resource improvement anyways, and it also doesn't cost you anything that there's a feitora there.