Ronald Reagan

[kochman]

Adjica is right about the USSR being about ready to keel over on its own though. This can't even be attributed to only spending problems as it really was a lot deeper than that. For instance, you mentioned empty grocery stores. There wasn't even shortages on a lot of items- it's just the quality was terrible or they were way overproducing.

Bread was one of those items in short supply. Amongst tons of other life basics, like cars, etc.

Even if you think Reagan sped up the fall of the USSR, I am not sure that was for the best in the end. A more controlled collapse might have much better for the former USSR than what they ended up with.

It could have also been worse, with tons of bloodshed and another armed civil war, such as brought the Soviets into power...

 

[Ajidica]

Reagan had the realization that Gorby was without said date, and acted accordingly.

Not to belabor a point, but Kissinger still disagrees with you on that count.
Yes, Kissinger is a bit of a dinosaur, even by the standards of his ideology, but I still trust his analysis far more then your analysis.

 

[bombshoo]

Bread was one of those items in short supply. Amongst tons of other life basics, like cars, etc.

It's certainly true there were shortages, but the thing is there were lots of other items that were being overproduced/overstocked on as well (two that come to mind are crappy shoes and vacuum cleaners out of all things), proving that it wasn't necessarily as simple as "We don't have to spend money on X, so instead let's spend it on Y".

It could have also been worse, with tons of bloodshed and another armed civil war, such as brought the Soviets into power...

Of course it could have been worse. It can pretty much always be worse in some way. It could also have been a lot better.

 

[warpus]

What's the deal with all the Reagan-worship? Why is he such an idol? I seriously don't get it.

When people start worshipping an idol they throw logic out the window and attach overblown and untrue facts to him/her.

Reagan just happens to be the Republican idol.

 

[kochman]

Why the worship of Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Roosevelt (both), JFK?

 

[Quackers]

I don't understand it either. He thought nothing of joking about nuking the Russians and fighting a "limited nuclear war" over Europe (evidently not understanding that the Europeans might have been just a wee bit pissed off about that). I was in high school during part of the time he was president, and my social studies teacher referred to him as "Ronnie Ray-Gun." When he survived his assassination attempt, so help me, I was disappointed - because he was such a WARMONGER.

Sure, we've got a bunch of warmongers now, Canada's Prime Minister among them. But there's a difference between the kind of war that's been going on for the past 10 years and a nuclear war.

Ronald Reagan was the only US president who took serious steps to eradicate nuclear weapons worldwide. I studied him a little bit for my A-level history and he met with Gorby and was like "look i'll reduce them all to 0, if you do the same!".

In an Icelandic forum with the Soviet Union they almost abolished nuclear weapons:

"President Ronald Reagan and Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev almost achieved a deal 20 years ago at the 1986 Reykjavik summit to abolish nuclear weapons, but the agreement would have required "an exceptional level of trust" that neither side had yet developed, according to previously secret U.S. and Soviet documents posted today on the Web by the National Security Archive of George Washington University and presented on October 12 in Reykjavik directly to Gorbachev and the president of Iceland.".

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB203/index.htm

 

[warpus]

Why the worship of Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Roosevelt (both), JFK?

People like to worship their idols. It happens everywhere.

 

[kramerfan86]

That's what elections are all about. General popularity isn't merely the gold standard, it's the ONLY standard. A President is elected based on which candidate got the most votes, and that's the end of it.

So then I guess you admit Reagan was simply a middling president who was third best out of the last 4 presidents?

 

[LucyDuke]

I'm hearing approval ratings, which aren't impressive in context. I'm hearing he broke apart the USSR, which, even if he were as responsible for as the nuttiest people gloat he was, isn't enough to make him the Best President Evar.

What else is there?

 

[kochman]

Why do we have to show "best ever" because we say best since?

 

[LucyDuke]

I just want to understand why every Republican in America drops his name like they do Jesus. Mediocre approval ratings and speaking sternly to a Russian doesn't seem to me to warrant that.

 

[Cutlass]

I just want to understand why every Republican in America drops his name like they do Jesus. Mediocre approval ratings and speaking sternly to a Russian doesn't seem to me to warrant that.

I've said it before. They need a hero. Reagan is the best available candidate. So they rewrote his history to better fill the role.

 

[kochman]

I just want to understand why every Republican in America drops his name like they do Jesus. Mediocre approval ratings and speaking sternly to a Russian doesn't seem to me to warrant that.

Taking in a leading role in the freeing of Eastern Europe is pretty important. Hundreds of millions of people... and freeing the world from the dangers of a nuclear WW3... pretty important stuff.

They talk about him being the best in some time, which is true... he is the best president since I've been alive, bar none. Clinton being 2nd best... lest I get accused of being a republican, again.

 

[kochman]

I've said it before. They need a hero. Reagan is the best available candidate. So they rewrote his history to better fill the role.

How does this explain all the non-republicans that think he was great?!

 

[useless]

It's actually pretty insulting to claim that Reagan had a big hand in the fall of the USSR than say... the people living and rebelling in and against the USSR?

 

[Antilogic]

How does this explain all the non-republicans that think he was great?!

As I have pointed out, repeatedly, not every non-Republican thinks he was great. His approval rating back in the 80s hovered just over 50%. That means about half the country did not approve of him.

It's not just this forum. Believe it or not, there were and still are tons of people out there that don't like Reagan.

 

[kochman]

As I have pointed out, repeatedly, not every non-Republican thinks he was great. His approval rating back in the 80s hovered just over 50%. That means about half the country did not approve of him.

It's not just this forum. Believe it or not, there were and still are tons of people out there that don't like Reagan.

Of course, not making that argument. However, hindsight/legacy of a president is important, no?
Clinton never even got 50% of the vote, but he's looked back at somewhat rosily too (including by me).
Hindsight often clears up things that may not have been that clear at the time. That's natural. Is there some exaggeration as a result? Often times, yes... JFK is a great example, look at his high ratings... he was kind of a boob while in office, but he's remembered as one of the best ever...

It's actually pretty insulting to claim that Reagan had a big hand in the fall of the USSR than say... the people living and rebelling in and against the USSR?

No, it isn't. They looked to the USA, and our strong leadership, as a source of hope. We supported them on many levels, materially as well.

 

[kramerfan86]

Once I would agree Reagan helped with the USSR, but republicans give him too much credit. They were already a country on the brink, that is the whole reason I imagine him and his advisers thought it was a good idea to give them a push. To hear his lovers talk though you would think the USSR was a healthy, thriving giant who Reagan brought to its knees where it was more so a sick dying giant who Reagan sort of helped along slightly faster. With or without reagan I dont think the USSR makes it out of the 90s.

 

[amadeus]

If freedom and prosperity are something you actually want, then FDR becomes among the best.

 

[kochman]

FDR helped free Europe from the Nazis, and Asia from the Japanese... definitely commendable.

Reagan helped free E Europe, including Russia, from the Soviet Union, and the world from the spectre of nuclear holocaust... definitely commendable.

Both freed more than Lincoln, and not many people are dissing Lincoln...