Vranasm, I think maybe we're having different expectations from the strategy. I didn't mean to imply that it's the fastest or only strategy for any particular start, just that I see it as a valid option among others.
I settled my 4th city over at Pericles' I believe, just a bit north of Carthage. By CS I must have had 5 or 6 total (two more on the north coast, one south of Carthage, one on the other island; and maybe one inland at the stone/cow already). After BW and IW I did a second REX push into the jungle and cottaged up the lands there. Had a total of 12 eventually but don't remember when. I do realize that in a position like this, a GLH trade economy can be strong, even more so when backed by the Colossus.
Brennus and UnforcedError, you are making an interesting point about Feud through Maths for warring. The thing is, you can't bulb CS with a GM through the Feud path because Alpha, Currency and CoL are all higher in the GM's bulb order. So if it's CS you want to bulb, you must go through the top branch whether you want it or not.
Monarchy and Feud are necessary for a large part of the tech tree, but except for Divine Right (does anyone ever research that?) all of those techs are in the bottom branch behind Guilds. Which requires BW.
As a conclusion, I agree with UE that I only see value in early Feud for warring. I can't see the Math path working out without being PHI; waiting 50 turns after HG is built for a GE to pop is just too slow. With PHI it's 25 turns, which probably puts the time to Feud in the same region where I got CS and means you're defenseless for just as long. You can't run any scientists in the meantime so you don't dilute your GP pool, which means that despite being PHI, you need an alternative source of commerce and can't build your economy around your trait.
Once you get Feud, you can start warring immediately. Well, you'll likely need some production first, so get bronze, chop and mine. Longbows are 60 a pop, cheaper than maces, but you won't have the Bureau bonus. I think the time you save compared to a CS bulb with followup maces is the time it takes the CS player to research MC and Machinery. The CS route gives you three big economic advantages in Currency, CoL (Caste) and CS, which means you're probably looking at about 15 turns difference.
For me, it boils down to this:
- Feud: 60
longbows, 6
, running vassalage and serfdom, no economy bonuses
- CS: 80 maces, 8, running caste and CS, 1 extra trade route per city (Currency), more techs researched, 15 turns later
You could be less defenseless (more defenseful?) by getting archers first and upgrading them later. Without any economic techs I think it will be hard to raise cash for the LB upgrade though. I don't see the Feud approach as useless, but I currently feel the CS bulb means more gain for about the same effort.
I settled my 4th city over at Pericles' I believe, just a bit north of Carthage. By CS I must have had 5 or 6 total (two more on the north coast, one south of Carthage, one on the other island; and maybe one inland at the stone/cow already). After BW and IW I did a second REX push into the jungle and cottaged up the lands there. Had a total of 12 eventually but don't remember when. I do realize that in a position like this, a GLH trade economy can be strong, even more so when backed by the Colossus.
Brennus and UnforcedError, you are making an interesting point about Feud through Maths for warring. The thing is, you can't bulb CS with a GM through the Feud path because Alpha, Currency and CoL are all higher in the GM's bulb order. So if it's CS you want to bulb, you must go through the top branch whether you want it or not.
Monarchy and Feud are necessary for a large part of the tech tree, but except for Divine Right (does anyone ever research that?) all of those techs are in the bottom branch behind Guilds. Which requires BW.
As a conclusion, I agree with UE that I only see value in early Feud for warring. I can't see the Math path working out without being PHI; waiting 50 turns after HG is built for a GE to pop is just too slow. With PHI it's 25 turns, which probably puts the time to Feud in the same region where I got CS and means you're defenseless for just as long. You can't run any scientists in the meantime so you don't dilute your GP pool, which means that despite being PHI, you need an alternative source of commerce and can't build your economy around your trait.
Once you get Feud, you can start warring immediately. Well, you'll likely need some production first, so get bronze, chop and mine. Longbows are 60 a pop, cheaper than maces, but you won't have the Bureau bonus. I think the time you save compared to a CS bulb with followup maces is the time it takes the CS player to research MC and Machinery. The CS route gives you three big economic advantages in Currency, CoL (Caste) and CS, which means you're probably looking at about 15 turns difference.
For me, it boils down to this:
- Feud: 60
longbows, 6, running vassalage and serfdom, no economy bonuses- CS: 80
maces, 8, running caste and CS, 1 extra trade route per city (Currency), more techs researched, 15 turns laterYou could be less defenseless (more defenseful?) by getting archers first and upgrading them later. Without any economic techs I think it will be hard to raise cash for the LB upgrade though. I don't see the Feud approach as useless, but I currently feel the CS bulb means more gain for about the same effort.
I'll just ask Tatran to give us a map and then I'll sort the teams out.
) to finish, which is not really ideal. And being on a 4-men(/women) team will make teams more vulnerable to lesser participation from a few team members... Dunno, but I'm ready to lurk this one. 
)
