Rule with Faith

[albie_123]

I don't think it's relevant to the thread and this whole series of posts will probably end up removed - but for what it's worth, the rebirth of faith, particularly public faith, and the 'reinvention of the national spirit' were active goals of the European right-wing nationalist movements of the 20th Century. They saw their movements as a way to both "purify" and strengthen spirituality (be it strictly Christian or otherwise) within the masses. The Nazis are the obvious example, but the Iron Guard, the Arrow Cross, the Ustase, and the Italian Fascists fit as well, either having strong ties to existing religious movements or creating their own, and each attempting to purge - successfully or otherwise - competing faiths or deviations on their proclaimed faiths. So, you could easily make a case that theoretically fascism sets out to give a 'faith bonus', and in some historic cases, they unfortunately succeeded. I can't speak for Asia.

Either way: It fits the gameplay. We now have religious policies, it'd be a waste not to have them in lategame as well. And, y'know, it's JFD's mod. So, if he wanted communism to have a faith bonus, he can go right ahead and do that.

 

[Brackenspore]

I don't think it's relevant to the thread and this whole series of posts will probably end up removed - but for what it's worth, the rebirth of faith, particularly public faith, and the 'reinvention of the national spirit' were active goals of the European right-wing nationalist movements of the 20th Century. They saw their movements as a way to both "purify" and strengthen spirituality (be it strictly Christian or otherwise) within the masses. The Nazis are the obvious example, but the Iron Guard, the Arrow Cross, the Ustase, and the Italian Fascists fit as well, either having strong ties to existing religious movements or creating their own, and each attempting to purge - successfully or otherwise - competing faiths or deviations on their proclaimed faiths. So, you could easily make a case that theoretically fascism sets out to give a 'faith bonus', and in some historic cases, they unfortunately succeeded. I can't speak for Asia.

It is ideology! Even then culture, not faith...

Either way: It fits the gameplay. We now have religious policies, it'd be a waste not to have them in lategame as well. And, y'know, it's JFD's mod. So, if he wanted communism to have a faith bonus, he can go right ahead and do that.

Then do not say that you are a politologist.

Spoiler :

Although there may be policy and political science in New Zealand?

 

[sresk]

Also on the fascism vs faith thing. You could make a strong argument that Nazi Germany was a Atheistic government with an enormous amount of faith... it's just that that faith was not in a divine being but rather in the supremacy of the perfect man and the righteousness of the father land.

1. I actually already changed the religious slot to a wildcard, but haven't updated yet.
2. The second tier govts. come earlier than they do in the base game. I feel this is balance enough. But I can consider this change if more people feel the same way, and do so after having tested it out in-game.
3. My discipline is political science, so accuracy is more important to me here. And at the end of the day, I made this mod for me. But I will look at adding user settings ala my Civ V mods tomorrow, so that you can revert it.
P.S. Also not possible, unfortunately.

1. Woot
2. I'm playing through it right now myself I'll give you a little feedback
3. I knew that one was going to be a touchy subject I knew as soon as I saw it that I was dealing with someone that had more than a passing familiarity with history and the whole athens greece vs modern america / democracy vs republic argument can get heated that's why I tried to approach that question with as much respect as possible. Could I recommend Classical Democracy, Athenian Democracy, Direct Democracy, or Demokratia, or something else that is historically and politically accurate but isn't the bald word "Democracy". That when taken by itself has too many connotations to modern forms of government and so it looks like an anachronism. Just give the title a little bit of flavor is what I'm getting at. I'd actually make the same argument about the title Liberal Democracy should perhaps be Representative or Constitutional Democracy, simply because the word liberal is more often associated with liberal vs conservative and again has political connotations.

2. Science bonuses are still very important in late-game, especially in the form of a percentage modifier. Too early to comment on whether culture is as well, I haven't played any culture-focused games yet.

I've played to the end on emperor and king and went for a cultural victory and I have to say that culture is kinda worthless after a point. It's a reasonable defense against someone else getting a tourism victory but its faster to go through the civics tree than the tech tree and there is no "Future Civics" I'd researched globalization about a dozen times while I was waiting for my tourism victory to trigger. Now if it was a modifier to Tourism output or great artists that would be huge.

 

[sresk]

I don't think it's relevant to the thread and this whole series of posts will probably end up removed - but for what it's worth, the rebirth of faith, particularly public faith, and the 'reinvention of the national spirit' were active goals of the European right-wing nationalist movements of the 20th Century......

Pet peeve of mine but it's reallllllly inaccurate to use the terms left and right wing when talking about Nazi's/fascism/communism or any totalitarian government. just so this doesn't devolve into a political debate there's a pretty decent article about it here.

 

[janboruta]

I, for one, welcome my new Faithful Military Overlords. I only might change the name locally to Military Dictatorship, I find it sounding more menacing. In regards to early governments only having 3 cards: I find it good on paper, going to give the mod a shot today in a day-long game. Since both tier 1 and tier 2 governments come earlier than in vanilla, I suppose it is fairly balanced, although I am not sure about tier 2 govts only having 4 card slots, while waiting for 6 slot govts is a bit postponed. Still, I has the potential of making the game more challenging in regards to vital-decision making in choosing the right cards. Also might necessitate the spending of gold to change policies more often.

1. If I change Noble republic to another government, my districts will remain? It's cheat...

So Germany, having this ability permanently, is a cheat civ?

"My discipline is political science" - I'm not sure...

Please don't insult the Emperor bleep bloop

 

[Brackenspore]

So Germany, having this ability permanently, is a cheat civ?

this

Please don't insult the Emperor bleep bloop

I'm not insulting, I doubt, looking at the bonuses.

 

[St. Ambrose]

Yay first real mod and first thing to translate for me (doing it for myself only just becuase I loved unified language style) Already tested it and yeah ealy game with no economic policy unless you Greece is pain. Hope to see more work on governments and policy cras after actual mod tools release, since right now a lot of crads or gov. bonuses are reused civ ablities, with is kinga not so good considering how unique Civ VI civs are.

 

[Brackenspore]

Feudal Monarchy
<Row Tag="LOC_GOVT_ACCUMULATED_BONUS_BRIEF_JFD_FEUDAL_MONARCHY" Language="en_US">
<Text>Bonus yields from district projects.</Text>
<!--<Text>Bonus on Border expansion.</Text>-->
</Row>
Yields from district projects or Border expansion? On screenshot: Yields from district projects

Constitutional Monarchy
<Row Tag="LOC_GOVT_ACCUMULATED_BONUS_BRIEF_JFD_CONSTITUTIONAL_MONARCHY" Language="en_US">
<Text>Bonus Influence points.</Text>
<!--<Text>Bonus on Tourism</Text>-->
</Row>
Bonus Influence points or Bonus on Tourism? On screenshot: Bonus Influence points

 

[janboruta]

Lines beginning with "<!--" are commented out, meaning they are not read as XML tags and thus are not used in-game.

 

[Chrisy15]

Feudal Monarchy
<Row Tag="LOC_GOVT_ACCUMULATED_BONUS_BRIEF_JFD_FEUDAL_MONARCHY" Language="en_US">
<Text>Bonus yields from district projects.</Text>
<!--<Text>Bonus on Border expansion.</Text>-->
</Row>
Yields from district projects or Border expansion? On screenshot: Yields from district projects

Constitutional Monarchy
<Row Tag="LOC_GOVT_ACCUMULATED_BONUS_BRIEF_JFD_CONSTITUTIONAL_MONARCHY" Language="en_US">
<Text>Bonus Influence points.</Text>
<!--<Text>Bonus on Tourism</Text>-->
</Row>
Bonus Influence points or Bonus on Tourism? On screenshot: Bonus Influence points

Well seeing as one is commented out, and the other is in the game...

[Edit] Ninja'd

 

[Firebug]

Feudal Monarchy
<Row Tag="LOC_GOVT_ACCUMULATED_BONUS_BRIEF_JFD_FEUDAL_MONARCHY" Language="en_US">
<Text>Bonus yields from district projects.</Text>
<!--<Text>Bonus on Border expansion.</Text>-->
</Row>
Yields from district projects or Border expansion? On screenshot: Yields from district projects

Constitutional Monarchy
<Row Tag="LOC_GOVT_ACCUMULATED_BONUS_BRIEF_JFD_CONSTITUTIONAL_MONARCHY" Language="en_US">
<Text>Bonus Influence points.</Text>
<!--<Text>Bonus on Tourism</Text>-->
</Row>
Bonus Influence points or Bonus on Tourism? On screenshot: Bonus Influence points

If you want to provide more accurate feedback, play the mod rather then poking around in the files. It'll do JFD more good to receive actual gameplay feedback. Let him focus on the code.

 

[JFD]

It is not defined to be a bonus.
People republic: production, workers, improvements.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Construction_Projects_of_Communism - bonus to Wonder production, please
Liberal Democracy: market economy, gold, business, amenity (!).
Military guardianship: military unit production, strength.
That is the basis, it is their traits.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Noble republic: culture or something else.

I don't think you appreciate the limitations here. Once Legacy bonuses are modular, I intend to move the legacy bonuses that I removed from the last governments back. In the meantime, I threw in something simple, sensible, and (I thought) potent.

Also on the fascism vs faith thing. You could make a strong argument that Nazi Germany was a Atheistic government with an enormous amount of faith... it's just that that faith was not in a divine being but rather in the supremacy of the perfect man and the righteousness of the father land.



1. Woot
2. I'm playing through it right now myself I'll give you a little feedback
3. I knew that one was going to be a touchy subject I knew as soon as I saw it that I was dealing with someone that had more than a passing familiarity with history and the whole athens greece vs modern america / democracy vs republic argument can get heated that's why I tried to approach that question with as much respect as possible. Could I recommend Classical Democracy, Athenian Democracy, Direct Democracy, or Demokratia, or something else that is historically and politically accurate but isn't the bald word "Democracy". That when taken by itself has too many connotations to modern forms of government and so it looks like an anachronism. Just give the title a little bit of flavor is what I'm getting at. I'd actually make the same argument about the title Liberal Democracy should perhaps be Representative or Constitutional Democracy, simply because the word liberal is more often associated with liberal vs conservative and again has political connotations.



I've played to the end on emperor and king and went for a cultural victory and I have to say that culture is kinda worthless after a point. It's a reasonable defense against someone else getting a tourism victory but its faster to go through the civics tree than the tech tree and there is no "Future Civics" I'd researched globalization about a dozen times while I was waiting for my tourism victory to trigger. Now if it was a modifier to Tourism output or great artists that would be huge.

Although true that People's Republic and Liberal Democracy have a strong correlation with the former Communism and Democracy, Fascism and Military Guardianship is not meant to be the same. Military Guardianship refers, broadly, to any system in which power is held in trust by a military government or by military officials - so, yes, Mussolini's Italy, but also Burma's SPDC. That said, your point highlights how broadly we should look at the in-game concept of Faith.

3. Right, I did have Classical Democracy as the original name of "Democracy." However, it looked at bit odd, aesthetically, for me, to have neither democracies "pure" democracy, and so I chose the Athenian kind because the first tier governments represent the most basic idea of in whom sovereignty is vested. I do appreciate the connotative dissonance that comes out of calling it "democracy" and indeed can see the same of Liberal Democracy - I hadn't thought of alternatives, but Representative Democracy is a really salient way to distinguish it without attaching ideological labels. I will reflect upon this, and, even if I decide I don't like it personally, I will add a user setting to allow the switch.

Hm, thats a shame. I'll see if I can switch it to Tourism then - admittedly, I didn't think too hard about it, because these are temporary effects until we can mod legacy bonuses, but I assumed science and culture were on par this time Thanks for the feedback.

Yay first real mod and first thing to translate for me (doing it for myself only just becuase I loved unified language style) Already tested it and yeah ealy game with no economic policy unless you Greece is pain. Hope to see more work on governments and policy cras after actual mod tools release, since right now a lot of crads or gov. bonuses are reused civ ablities, with is kinga not so good considering how unique Civ VI civs are.

I don't think the policy cards do, but sure, the government bonuses do. But I'm still getting used to the game's mechanics and modding possibilities - it hasn't even been out a week

 

[St. Ambrose]

I don't think the policy cards do, but sure, the government bonuses do. But I'm still getting used to the game's mechanics and modding possibilities - it hasn't even been out a week

Art partonage is basicly Russian Lavra ability.

 

[Brackenspore]

Military Guardianship bonus (+10% Gold and Faith) doesn't work. I download mod several times, but the bonus is not working.
By the way, I want to remind that if you start the game in the information era, the prophets are not available. So the bonus to the faith becomes meaningless. And your new card (-100% Faith and +25% production) defeats the whole bonus as well.

 

[JFD]

Well that new card - State Atheism - is clearly designed with the People's Republic government in mind.

I'll check - I assumed it would, because Lib. Democracy's worked when I tested.

 

[Brackenspore]

Well that new card - State Atheism - is clearly designed with the People's Republic government in mind.

I'll check - I assumed it would, because Lib. Democracy's worked when I tested.

Democracy and People Republic work. These governments work even with my own bonuses: Lib. Democracy +20% Food, People Republic +15% Production.

 

[sresk]

I don't think you appreciate the limitations here. Once Legacy bonuses are modular, I intend to move the legacy bonuses that I removed from the last governments back. In the meantime, I threw in something simple, sensible, and (I thought) potent.



Although true that People's Republic and Liberal Democracy have a strong correlation with the former Communism and Democracy, Fascism and Military Guardianship is not meant to be the same. Military Guardianship refers, broadly, to any system in which power is held in trust by a military government or by military officials - so, yes, Mussolini's Italy, but also Burma's SPDC. That said, your point highlights how broadly we should look at the in-game concept of Faith.

3. Right, I did have Classical Democracy as the original name of "Democracy." However, it looked at bit odd, aesthetically, for me, to have neither democracies "pure" democracy, and so I chose the Athenian kind because the first tier governments represent the most basic idea of in whom sovereignty is vested. I do appreciate the connotative dissonance that comes out of calling it "democracy" and indeed can see the same of Liberal Democracy - I hadn't thought of alternatives, but Representative Democracy is a really salient way to distinguish it without attaching ideological labels. I will reflect upon this, and, even if I decide I don't like it personally, I will add a user setting to allow the switch.

Hm, thats a shame. I'll see if I can switch it to Tourism then - admittedly, I didn't think too hard about it, because these are temporary effects until we can mod legacy bonuses, but I assumed science and culture were on par this time Thanks for the feedback.



I don't think the policy cards do, but sure, the government bonuses do. But I'm still getting used to the game's mechanics and modding possibilities - it hasn't even been out a week

Thanks for listening to the feed back and sorry to belabor whats likely a really minor point it's just that names and flavor are something that often times get overlooked and the quality of this mod overall is so good.

Also now that I've played with it a little longer as long as chieftain has a wild card the fact that the 2nd tier only has 3 slots isn't that bad because honestly you don't keep the 2nd tier government very long. Bu that brings up a point that because you are advancing through the government tiers so much faster I'd recommend dramatically shortening the amount of time it takes to acquire the legacy bonuses for the first 1 or 2 tiers of governments and then maybe slowing it down for the last 2 tiers.

 

[albie_123]

I don't think the legacy bonuses should be gotten quicker - we should be spending more time on them in the first place. I would hesitate making any changes in that regard as I highly doubt the current state of research and production speed (i.e. modern era by 1500 but entire eras spent building a handful of improvements) will remain.

 

[sresk]

Well I'm already playing with my own modded values of 65% production costs and scaling 2x-3x tech and civics costs (so way faster production and way slower tech) and it plays MUCH better with that... so as far as I'm concerned I'll never play another game with vanilla values for production and tech.

But even with the civics taking twice as long or more you still only end up with a 2-3% legacy bonus before you switch out

 

[Brackenspore]

I play on Epic/Marathon speed and with +5% Eureka/Inspiration boost. I have no your (albie_123, sresk) problems