Russian Answer to EU- The Eurasian Union

[Veles]

...the increasing tendency by historians to treat muscovy-russia as another of the chinggisid successor states

Some lolstorians they must be then. Lev Gumiliov was a big fan of Great Steppe, but, seriousely, I don't see how an average Russian can relate to his Eurasianism.

Russians are European, period.

What Russia has to do is quit being annoyed when its neighbours act in their own self interest. If Ukraine ever joins the EU it is not going to be an anti-Russian move. . but rather a pro-Ukrainian move. They are a sovereign nation and they can join whatever international organization they want, it's none of Russia's business.

"Russia's biggest problem is that it isn't sure where it begins and where it ends"

Russia never ends, it's a country established directly by God himself to spread awesome on this planet.

I'll tell ye the truth, listen carefully.

Russia (also known as Rus') starts at the Dniepr watershed at the West, goes along the East Carpatians all the way to Danube estuary. This is historical Rus'. Further its borders lie along the Black sea and then all the way along the Kuban and Terek basins. That includes Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, East Carpathian part of Romania, mainly Russian populated Northern Kazakhstan along the Irtysh basin (the Border of the Great Steppe) and Northern Mongolia (just for teh lulz basically and slick borders).

All of those countries are already heavily dependant and subsidized by Russia through tariffs and various privileges and economic consessions. They are independant only de-jure. Without Russian support and subsidising they are scrood and failed. Their ruling elites constantly beg for more concessions, appealing to former brotherhood (see Lukashenko, Tymoshenko, Nazarbayedv, Kirgiz dudes for elaboration). Half of their populations works in Russia and strive for Russian citizenship. Non of those countries would object joining Russia in a referrendum, bar the Romainan part obviously.

With China it's more diffulcult. Technically the bigger part of the Amur basin belongs to China since time immemorial. So it would be unfair to take all of it, they don't have enough land already. So here it seems we are ready to make a concession to our Chinese bros and leave the border as it is nao.

Once that is achieved, we should build a huge impenetrable wall around us and allow nobody in, even for money.

Then there are other Slavic countries with which we should unite, but they aren't as willing as the above mentioned states (bar Serbia). So we must become awesome enough to make them genuenly want to join. Thus a Slavic Union will be established.

After that we reinstate the broke and long forgotten EU, dominate it, and create the United European Empire of Awesome.

What? A bit of healthy imperialism never hurt anybody. Beware of the semi-trolling nature of it, though

 

[Winner]

Yeah. And we need to reclaim Slovakia, Hungary (what the hell, no, I meant the Pannonian Basin, no pandering to the steppe nomads!), Silesia, Lužice, Austria, and other lands stolen from the Kingdom of Bohemia and its ancient Moravian predecessors...

Seriously though - Russia needs to stop treating its neighbours with a post-imperial disdain, otherwise the situation will never improve.

 

[RedRalph]

Seriously though - Russia needs to stop treating its neighbours with a post-imperial disdain, otherwise the situation will never improve.

Do you honestly believe Belarus or Kazakhstan are being forced into this?

 

[Veles]

Yeah. And we need to reclaim Slovakia, Hungary (what the hell, no, I meant the Pannonian Basin, no pandering to the steppe nomads!), Silesia, Lužice, Austria, and other lands stolen from the Kingdom of Bohemia and its ancient Moravian predecessors...

Bro, absolutely That's the first thing we do after forming the Slavic Union. Then we reclaim Wagria, Lusatia and Sorbia i.e. Laba basin, which is rightfully ours

Seriously though - Russia needs to stop treating its neighbours with a post-imperial disdain, otherwise the situation will never improve.

There is no disdain, quite the contrary. The only thing that stops Belarusians and Ukrainians is the fact that, just like us, they are run by corrupted crooks. Compared to ours their crooks are piss poor and they constantly beg for Russian support, bringing up the Slavic brotherhood argument.

Never actually met a Belarussian who was against uniting and forming Rus' again. Majority of Ukrainians (bar the zapadentsy) would vote for it in a referrendum, that's why it will never be allowed by current elite, who are Russia's best buddies when it suits them, and who base their statehood on anti-Russianess the rest of the time.

When we all have better democracy, such Union is a thing to do.

 

[red_elk]

After that we reinstate the broke and long forgotten EU, dominate it, and create the United European Empire of Awesome.

Of course this will be just a first step in the process of world unification under righteous rule of our glorious nation.

 

[Veles]

Pfft, naturally.

 

[Winner]

Do you honestly believe Belarus or Kazakhstan are being forced into this?

Tell me, how many of the countries that are to take part in this are functional democracies?

Bro, absolutely That's the first thing we do after forming the Slavic Union. Then we reclaim Wagria, Lusatia and Sorbia i.e. Laba basin, which is rightfully ours

Reclaim? You've never had any claim on the West Slavic lands. And you don't represent all the Slavs just because of the historical accident of being the most populous Slavic country. How many of you are true Slavs, anyway? This is our sandpit, Russia, you go play with the Chinese

 

[warpus]

I would rather be ruled by Hungarians.

 

[Winner]

I would rather be ruled by Hungarians.

Never ever. Gods forbid. No, just... ah, that's a terrible thought.

 

[Veles]

Reclaim? You've never had any claim on the West Slavic lands. And you don't represent all the Slavs just because of the historical accident of being the most populous Slavic country. How many of you are true Slavs, anyway? This is our sandpit, Russia, you go play with the Chinese

I would rather be ruled by Hungarians.

Y'all just don't get it. We will reclaim it as a Slavic Union. Not as Russia. Russia will be surrounded with impenetrable wall, remember? Czechs will rule the Laba Basin. Poles - the Odra and Visla basins. It's a good plan

 

[Winner]

Y'all just don't get it. We will reclaim it as a Slavic Union. Not as Russia. Russia will be surrounded with impenetrable wall, remember? Czechs will rule the Laba Basin. Poles - the Odra and Visla basins. It's a good plan

How can you reclaim anything for something that has never existed?

 

[red_elk]

We will reclaim it as a Slavic Union. Not as Russia.

I'd propose the name Union of Slavic Sovereign Republics (USSR).
With hammer and sickle as symbol of diligence and hard working of all Slavic people.

 

[Veles]

How can you reclaim anything for something that has never existed?

Every land that Slavs ever possessed has a permanent Slavic core on it. So we'll be clean, with minimal badboy.

And Slavs did inhabited on almost all of Laba basin, just check out the toponymy of the region. Nemtsi didn't even bother to give new names to places.

How many of you are true Slavs, anyway?

Well, how many of you are? We're all pretty mixed. It's not that we're gonna DNA test everybody for R1a. Who calls himself a Slav and generally observes our ways and customs - that one is a Slav.

I'd propose the name Union of Slavic Sovereign Republics (USSR).
With hammer and sickle as symbol of diligence and hard working of all Slavic people.

That's simply brilliant

 

[Pangur Bán]

This is just paranoia on Russia's part. Nobody is cutting off Russia's anything - Russia's internal borders will never be touched by the EU unless Russia formally applies to the organization and gets accepted as a member.

What Russia has to do is quit being annoyed when its neighbours act in their own self interest. If Ukraine ever joins the EU it is not going to be an anti-Russian move. . but rather a pro-Ukrainian move. They are a sovereign nation and they can join whatever international organization they want, it's none of Russia's business.

If Russia is going to get alienated, then that's pretty petty and not the EU's fault. It's like an annoying bully at the playground screaming to two guys: "You guys are friends now?? But we were friends first! This is not acceptable!"

It's fine to have an attitute like that and it's fine to have as much disrespect for Russia as you want ... in private. If Russia is defensive, if it is paranoid, then this has to be dealt with sensibly. Ukraine and Belarus ... culturally, linguistically, ideologically ... these are part of Russia as far as we should be concerned. So long as there is no realistic prospect of including Russia in the EU, bringing these in would be extremely risky. This is just a practical thing as far as everyone already in the EU is concerned. Yes they are technically sovereign states, but no, we don't need to help them act in their own self-interest when doing so increases the belligerence of the world's second nuclear power and Europe's dominant energy provider, and undermines the security of the rest of Europe. Turning Russia's population more nationalistic would be a disaster.

In the longer term Russia is essential to those seeking Europe's independence on the world stage, because only with Russia's resources can Europe be a serious power vis-a-vis China and USA,and only with convergence between French-German political culture and Russian political culture can the EU succeed in the longer term.

 

[warpus]

It's fine to have an attitute like that and it's fine to have as much disrespect for Russia as you want ... in private. If Russia is defensive, if it is paranoid, then this has to be dealt with sensibly. Ukraine and Belarus ... culturally, linguistically, ideologically ... these are part of Russia as far as we should be concerned. So long as there is no realistic prospect of including Russia in the EU, bringing these in would be extremely risky. This is just a practical thing as far as everyone already in the EU is concerned. Yes they are technically sovereign states, but no, we don't need to help them act in their own self-interest when doing so increases the belligerence of the world's second nuclear power and Europe's dominant energy provider, and undermines the security of the rest of Europe. Turning Russia's population more nationalistic would be a disaster.

I don't think treating Ukraine and Belarus as sovereign nations is disrespectful of Russia. It has NOTHING to do with Russia.

If Ukraine joined the EU Russia would throw a hissy fit, of course, but it wouldn't lead to any sort of war or refusal to to deliver oil.

They are independent nations, they can join whatever organization they want.

 

[Winner]

In the longer term Russia is essential to those seeking Europe's independence on the world stage, because only with Russia's resources can Europe be a serious power vis-a-vis China and USA,and only with convergence between French-German political culture and Russian political culture can the EU succeed in the longer term.

Only if the "convergence" means Russia becoming more like Germany (or even France, if it can't be helped) and not the other way round.

 

[RedRalph]

Tell me, how many of the countries that are to take part in this are functional democracies?

How is that relevant? Do you honestly believe any action taken by a non-democracy is wrong?

 

[Winner]

How is that relevant? Do you honestly believe any action taken by a non-democracy is wrong?

You asked me:

Do you honestly believe Belarus or Kazakhstan are being forced into this?

My honest answer is yes. Unless these countries are democratic and thus their joining such an organization has some democratic legitimacy, it's fairly safe to assume these countries are being forced into it. Whether by Kremlin and/or their own dictatorial politicians is another question.

 

[Veles]

I don't think treating Ukraine and Belarus as sovereign nations is disrespectful of Russia. It has NOTHING to do with Russia.

If Ukraine joined the EU Russia would throw a hissy fit, of course, but it wouldn't lead to any sort of war or refusal to to deliver oil.

They are independent nations, they can join whatever organization they want.

They are independant only when it suits them. Whenever there're talks about changing the price of gas to actual market price they quickly remind that we have "special ties". I have very little sympathy for Gazprom, but they actually (though surely unintentionally) help our reunification, because they say "either you're independant and pay market prices like everybody else, or, if you can't handle the actual price like a real counrty and need a discount because of some mythical brotherhood, about which you forget the next day, perhaps you're incapable to maintain a separate entity? Why don't we just unite and you'll have the gaz dirty cheep and lots of other candies." The only barrier is their ruling elites, who, like, wants to pretend that they run an independant country. People of Ukraine and Belarus would benefit enormously. They way they are now, they aren't any more democratic than Russia, so what's the difference?

But the fact that people freeze while they quarreling isn't cool, of course.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

In the longer term Russia is essential to those seeking Europe's independence on the world stage, because only with Russia's resources can Europe be a serious power vis-a-vis China and USA,and only with convergence between French-German political culture and Russian political culture can the EU succeed in the longer term.

The EU is already the world's largest economy and could easily become a superpower if the political will was there. Including Russia -after some serious reforms- would be advantageous but not necessary, and they are currently in no state to join.

I can't see how a convergence with Russian political culture could benefit us, unless it's a one way street in our direction. I certainly don't want Germany to become more nationalistic, more authoritarian and more corrupt, and I don't want any of this Putinesque cult of personality.