Russian Answer to EU- The Eurasian Union

[NovaKart]

From what I've heard, Kazakhstan has always been closer to Russia than the other Stans and it's not surprising that Belarus would join either. It remains to be seen how the other former Soviet countries will see this agreement.

 

[RedRalph]

I doubt any of those countries, which are already afraid of Russia, would want to join another union with them. Certainly not after how the last union turned out.

Kazakhstan is afriad of Russia?

 

[innonimatu]

Which republics of the former USSR actually benefited with the end of the USSR?

 

[Veles]

Russian Federation. Well, at least it didn't have to support that ungrateful lot anymore. Hardly genuenly benefited, though.

 

[Virote_Considon]

To me the EU's permanent exclusion of Russia undermines its credibility and ideological raison d'etre. The EU shouldn't be setting up an anti-Russian economic block on Russia's doorstep. It contradicts its role as a "European" block and makes war, something it's allegedly designed to prevent, more rather than less likely. Russians (+Belarusians and Ukrainians) should be encouraged think of themselves as European once again, not "Eurasians"; the EU is for Europe, not just France and Germany.

The EU has not permanently excluded Russia in any way, shape or form.

The EU has set up no anti-Russian economic bloc anywhere. The relationship between the EU and Russia has in fact been negotiated by the two as equal entities.

Russians (+Belorussians and Ukrainians) are being encouraged to think of themselves as European once again by the EU.

This "Eurasian Union" was an initiative from the states who make it up, the EU were in no-way involved; the EU aren't encouraging Russia et al. to think of themselves as Eurasian rather than European.

France and Germany are not involved with the creation of this Eurasian Union, so I do not know why you brought them up specifically.

 

[Pangur Bán]

The EU has not permanently excluded Russia in any way, shape or form.

Didn't say it had.

The EU has set up no anti-Russian economic bloc anywhere. The relationship between the EU and Russia has in fact been negotiated by the two as equal entities.

You are effectively contradicting yourself, since the countries like Russia are meant to be envisaged as potential component parts.

Russians (+Belorussians and Ukrainians) are being encouraged to think of themselves as European once again by the EU.

Good. Link?

This "Eurasian Union" was an initiative from the states who make it up, the EU were in no-way involved; the EU aren't encouraging Russia et al. to think of themselves as Eurasian rather than European.

Didn't say they were. The block is a response to their effective exclusion.

France and Germany are not involved with the creation of this Eurasian Union, so I do not know why you brought them up specifically.

Well you can ask if you if there is something you don't understand.

 

[Tahuti]

Which republics of the former USSR actually benefited with the end of the USSR?

Probably Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan.

 

[jtb1127]

Are you guys saying they were all happy in the Soviet Union?

 

[Virote_Considon]

You are effectively contradicting yourself, since the countries like Russia are meant to be envisaged as potential component parts.

This was on Russia's insistence; other than that, Ukraine and Belarus are envisaged as potential component parts. With Ukraine in particular, from both the point of view of those in the EU and those in the Ukraine itself, it is not whether Ukraine has the potential to become a member, but when they shall do so.

Good. Link?

Source - Official EU Website
Source - Official EU Website
Source - People's Daily Online

Didn't say they were. The block is a response to their effective exclusion.

Their self-imposed exclusion for Russia/Belarus. Kazakhstan is the only current Eurasian Union member which looks like it would probably be excluded from EU membership.

Well you can ask if you if there is something you don't understand.

And you can elaborate if you feel people may not understand.

 

[Pangur Bán]

This was on Russia's insistence; other than that, Ukraine and Belarus are envisaged as potential component parts. With Ukraine in particular, from both the point of view of those in the EU and those in the Ukraine itself, it is not whether Ukraine has the potential to become a member, but when they shall do so.

Source - Official EU Website
Source - Official EU Website
Source - People's Daily Online
.

This looks to be more like attempts to detach Belarus and Ukraine from the Russian sphere ... quite the opposite of the way you're presenting it and quite in keeping with my concerns about the EU morphing into an anti-Russian economic block.

 

[red_elk]

Asian republics are irrelevant, they're of no use.

Asian republics is a source of workforce, people who are relatively close to us culturally, can speak our language and have more or less internationalist mindset, because they were grown up in USSR. Alternative - Arabs, Turks and Chinese people, I doubt they can integrate in our society as easy as Kazakhs. Don't forget also large Russian population there and infrastructure objects built during Soviet period, such as Baikonur.

Also there are much less political complications in integrating Asian republics. Kazakhstan for example wasn't even willing to separate from USSR, they were simply presented with a fait accompli - USSR is not exist and you are now independent. The problems with Ukraine and Baltic states is their strong internal opposition to integration with Russia. We can of course inva.., I mean, invite them, but the process in any case will be much more difficult than with Belorussia.

 

[innonimatu]

Are you guys saying they were all happy in the Soviet Union?

Well, can any of the russians here comment on how reliable the USSR referendum of 1991 was? The impression I have is that it was honest.
But I have to add that Armenia and Georgia also boycotted it, not just the Baltic states.

 

[Veles]

There's no way we can be 100% sure. But the general sentiment was to remain in the Union and reform it Gorbachev way: free entrepreneurship, free press, free traveling abord, no ideological limitations etc. The majority of people didn't want it to collapse.

 

[red_elk]

Well, can any of the russians here comment on how reliable the USSR referendum of 1991 was?

People were not happy with life in USSR, in last few years of its existence. Mainly because such simple things as getting food and clothes for family was becoming more and more difficult. Everybody understood that the situation is very bad and some radical measures must be taken to fix it. But I don't know anybody who thought that dissolution of the state could somehow improve the situation. Many people in peripheral regions understood that collapse of the USSR mean for their homeland civil war, deaths, hunger and lots of refugees.

The results of referendum seem pretty reliable to me, at least that was how majority of people thought in Russian mainland.

 

[Tahuti]

There's no way we can be 100% sure. But the general sentiment was to remain in the Union and reform it Gorbachev way: free entrepreneurship, free press, free traveling abord, no ideological limitations etc. The majority of people didn't want it to collapse.

I'm not a Russian nor would I go as far to say I'm on expert on everything Russian, yet I think there were quite a few reasons to assume Gorbachev was a Communist who didn't believe in Capitalism and Liberal Democracy but simply wanted to modernise - not liberalise - the USSR but inadvertently progenited its downfall.

Did he wanted to challenge the traditional Soviet elites? Yes. Did he wanted to modernise the USSR? Yes. Did he wanted to make the Soviet Union a freer nation? Discutable at best. Did he wanted to destroy the Soviet Union? Hell no. He probably was more like a Deng Xiaoping, except that Deng Xiaoping actually succeeded in bringing his country to the 21st century.

 

[innonimatu]

I'm not a Russian nor would I go as far to say I'm on expert on everything Russian, yet I think there were quite a few reasons to assume Gorbachev was a Communist who didn't believe in Capitalism and Liberal Democracy but simply wanted to modernise - not liberalise - the USSR but inadvertently progenited its downfall.

Did he wanted to challenge the traditional Soviet elites? Yes. Did he wanted to modernise the USSR? Yes. Did he wanted to make the Soviet Union a freer nation? Discutable at best. Did he wanted to destroy the Soviet Union? Hell no. He probably was more like a Deng Xiaoping, except that Deng Xiaoping actually succeeded in bringing his country to the 21st century.

My impression is that Gorbachev was an idiot, plain and simple. All he had to do was actually issue orders to the army, no one there wanted the USSR to collapse. He could have stopped Yeltsin if he really wanted to. Yeltsin himself had no problems using the military to do his own coup later. But no, he was "too good" to dispose of Yeltsin.

And he was an idiot with his choice of advisers for those "reforms" too, they were all hell-bent on destroying the soviet state and leaving a total void after that.

 

[Tahuti]

My impression is that Gorbachev was an idiot, plain and simple.

My thoughts exactly. When the USSR collapsed because of his stupidity, he appeared to have reinvented himself as someone who did exactly that on purpose to free the Russian people. A load of **** of course.

 

[Camikaze]

I'm fairly sure the Baltic States would rather die screaming than joining the Soviet Union Eurasian Union again.

I don't imagine that the Baltic states would be involved in this, though, because then there'd be overlap with the EU. This looks like an alternative to the EU, to include those that aren't in the existing organisation, rather than something that would replace the EU within the Baltic states.

The difference between this and the EU is that Russia would be a clear hegemon. There is no such unipolarity within the EU. That might cause some concern, though that concern might be misplaced.

 

[Tee Kay]

Probably Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan.

Azerbaijan was, I think, one of the big losers from the collapse of the Soviet Union, losing Nagorno-Karabakh and still today on a permanent war footing. On the other hand, Kazakhstan is one of the big winners.

 

[Incodcito]

Which republics of the former USSR actually benefited with the end of the USSR?

Umm... the Baltic States?