SC02 - The Goodbye Kiss

I think convert to Buddhism then run all over Liz with Huayana's help, otherwise known as the Meso American CoProsperity Zone. Conventry had no culture so getting it in our hands should not be a problem, then we can think about where to go next.

The key to the UN is going to be population, the key to Space is commerce. So we need to balance those two things. Once Code of Laws is in hand we can do good things with courthouses and a Forbidden Palace, so getting a jump on the Lizard would be a good thing. If we wait too long the battle will just get harder as she builds up her culture and commerce.
 
I understand what you're sayin' but I kinda see liz a buffer between us and sal.

I was kind of approaching this as no war until panzers, but u all know my history... :crazyeye: ;)

@ bede, and while I understand what you're saying about the key to the UN being population, there are other ways to the top (granted, I've never tried them on monarch, but you can tie the AI in all kinds of diplomatic knots if u really work at it).

In an ideal world, I'd like to crush huayna and have hattie and lizzie in a war with Sal.

in other words, I won't argue over money, but will over diplo. think we need the money to get a leg up on the techs and then go cause diplomatic trouble

p.s. still would like to remain neutral on the religion until someone demands we change. this is all touchy feely with no empiric evidence to back it up
 
IT: Ok. I am not the most at ease with our sitaution currently: We're at least seven techs behind at this point, and it ain't dropping. Also, the AI has longbows. We're last in power, according to the graph. We've got COL due in 8, a settler in 3, and not very much room (personally).

Pic_40.JPG

Civ4ScreenShot0041.JPG


I hit enter.

1 (720 AD)- Pink Dot finishes its barracks. I start an archer, to protect the settler. I've yet to determine a spot for him though. Notice, on the map, that there is a barb city in the east, over by Liz, our #1 hit. I'll put together an army to deal w/ her (Did I say her? I meant, of course, the barb city). Decided to put the new settler over by the corn and marble.

Civ4ScreenShot0042.JPG


2 740 - Liz swaps to Serfdom and Vassalage (She JUST got Fuedalism, then). 3rd Pink Dot Gold mine completed; also, the city is now Buddhist... I smell a change coming soon (but soft, not yet). I'm thinking, now, after seeing the game, that a switch to Hinduism might incite Huyana to attack us. We should build an army, to protect against him,if we are going to switch. Not sure what to do yet.

3. 760- Liz wants us to cancel deals. I say no. I want her to be the aggressor in the war, not us. Teno finishes its settler, and I start a Jag. I move a troop to begin scouting Liz's armies. One is already doing so for Huyana

4. 780-Swap a couple builds. Teo starts an axeman, and I fortify its spear (I'm sending all new troops to the city). Pink starts a axe from the archer, send it to the site. Huyana keeps sending missionaries toward us. I'm going to let him burn himself up trying to convert us. No need for us to do it. He, though not as juicy, looks very enticing as a meal for Monty.

5. 800- Realize some :smoke: I wasted some worker turns sending the Texacoco workers over to the silver, rather than the deer. Start Tex on a Jag, New Tlateloco (thanks for correcting it ucel) to an axe (Huyana showed us a sword and a spear up north, and I realized that it only has two defenders). Next turn, I'll found a city on the tundra near the corn (rather than the proposed spot... converting the tundra to a usable tile).

6. 820- Finish a Jag in Teno, and start a lighthouse... It has a happiness gap, so I want to work the 3 food lake tile, instead of one of the cottages. We're the least cultured, too. Found Tlaxcala, and send the workers to the corn. Get a look at Liz's capitol and begin to salivate. I'm thinking we build a mass of chariots or horse archers, and take it on turn 1 of the war. Pic 44 I bump science to 80% to get COL in 1.

Civ4ScreenShot0044.JPG


7. 840- COL comes in. Time for some tech brokering (set us at Civil Service, so's we can farm some lands). I get (shots failed):

COL to Hatty for 10 g and Monarchy.

COL to Sala for 10 g and Horseback Riding.

Hmm. Figured on the both of them having more $. Still we're up two important techs. Our happiness problems are gone, and London should be ours. Since we have no religion, they won't give us better deals (oh well). Didn't want to commit us yet. I think Liz got COL a little while ago. They also got construction and metal casing.

Huyana goes to a completely different civics set (Theo and Vassalage most notably).

England has no horses, but does have Elephants. Might we try to pillage that at the beginning of the war? I'm thinking whoever's next should have almost enough forces to attack.

Switch to Hereditary Rule. Drop science to ... it's -3 at 50, or +6 at 40. Leave it on 50.

8. 860- Axemen complete- Horse Archers in Pink and Teo. I'll enclose an attack plan at the end of my turns.

New units- drop Gpt to -7. Yikes. We need to use some fast. Begin shifting them around, to have more at the front.

9. 880- Spot the reason I positioned my dot map as it was (concerning Tlateloco). There's a massive hole (3 squares) in between Teno and Tlateloco. I really hope no other Civ spots that.

10. 900- Nothing much. I turn off all gotos and activate several unites in Teotihuacan. I think we should send all troops to the cow outside Teo. See the battleplan:

Battleplan:

Civ4ScreenShot0045.JPG

Save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SC02_AD-0900.Civ4SavedGame

--Zalson
 
Just where I like to be at the start of a war....poor, stupid and ignorant. With LB in defense and the cultural defense at London it is going to be a tough nut to crack. Matbe a strike at Coventry and Hastings then a quick settlement?

Roster check

AdmK - use your best judgement, up
Sir Bugsy - opened up the map a little
Jeff1787 - put us back in the hunt
Bede - wandered around and grumped.
ucel - got us on the road to prosperity
Zalson - did an Officer Obie (8x10 color glossies with circles and arrows and a little paragraph on the back)
 
thought I had autolog working, but, I must have deleted a file. Decided Lizzie was too tough and went after Huayna. Lizzie gave us Poly for nothing. We're building CH's to help with the cash flow. sorry about the bad log. A cat is inbound, but no worries we've got a HA and a Jag to take it down.
Liz declared on Huayna the turn after we did.

Prewar coventry:
igor18ks.jpg

Prewar Humonguous
igor26so.jpg

Postwar Frontlines
igor30na.jpg


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SC02_AD-1050.Civ4SavedGame
 
Good call AK. Keep our backs to the sea!

Roster check


Sir Bugsy - :hammer: have fun, you're up
Jeff1787 - put us back in the hunt
Bede - wandered around and grumped.
ucel - got us on the road to prosperity
Zalson - did an Officer Obie (8x10 color glossies with circles and arrows and a little paragraph on the back)
AdmK - use your best judgement and turned the front 90 degrees
 
I have it. I'm not exactly sure what happened during the Admiral's turns. Obviously we went to war and captured a city. Are we still at war? If not why did we stop warring so quickly leaving a salient? If we are still at war, what is the disposition of our troops and what was the Admiral's campaign plan?
 
Admiral Kutzov said:
Decided Lizzie was too tough and went after Huayna.

Good decision there. She must've reinforced it during my turn... I saw an axe and a longbow heading over, and my scouting Jag must've freaked her out a bit. Nice jorb on taking Humanga. If we can build up a large army, we should be able to even out the tech situation a bit.

--Zalson
 
Bugs, we're still at war. the front got rotated ninety degrees cause Lizzie spawned LB's like nobody's business. this was all very detailed and thought out in my comments in autolog, which, of course, I can't find. Think I erroneously deleted a file. There was no great strategic plan, just to grab space and cities from Huayna. Had we gone to war with Lizzie, we'd have relationship problems and that just didn't seem appropriate for V-day. At a minimum I'd like to get Ollanwhatever out of this war (it had iron until I pillaged it). IIRC Liz is also at war with Huayna and sit back a spell and let her take some of the counterattacks. i suggest we follow her troops and then hit after they do. Timing will we tricky so that we take the cities and she doesn't. The other major objective is Huayna's holy city. I think he has one IIRC. As for the disposition of our troops, they're sort of milling about in an idiot way on Huayna's southern border waiting to kill an incoming cat and waiting for the next better player's strategic plans.

On the domestic front, I chopped some forests to hurry along some CH. we only need one forest tile per city for health, right?

go get 'em bugs.
 
I think you need two for the health bonus, since each adds 0.5? or did this change with the patch?

--Zalson
 
Pre-flight – 1050 - Hey just a note to the team, I will be out of pocket this weekend Friday through Monday for the CD project. To put my mind in the proper frame of mind, I put Gary Bonds, Southside Johnny and the Iron City Houserockers in the CD player and hit random.

Thanks Admiral for the update. In order to capture the holy city, we’ll have to eliminate the Mayans. That’s OK. It just won’t be a quick war.

1. 1060 - Lose a Jag attacking a catapult. Then kill it with a horse archer. Move next to Ollywhatever. There are nine defenders inside with 40% defense. I’ll be gathering an attacking force for a few turns.

IBT – Construction=>Metal Casting (for forges)

2. 1070 – Marching towards Olly-olly-oxenfree.
IBT – Huamanga stops resisting. We start an obelisk. Dizzy Lizzy is sending a single elephant into the war zone.

3. 1080 – Kill a barb in the southeast. We now have a barb city down there. Send some units in that direction to see if we can’t get a free city. Start pillaging around Olly.

IBT – We go 1-1 on the front outside Olly, killing a HA, and losing a Jag to a mace. Kill a barb axe in the southeast.

4. 1090 – Since things are quiet, here’s a sitrep. The northern front:


And the new barb city to the southeast:


There are three archers defending.

IBT – Two of those archers attack our axe outside the city and die. Our dude is promoted. Lizzy’s elephant kills a mace. A mace marches next to Huamanga.

5. 1100- Pillage a few tiles and use the elephant for cover. Attack the barb city with our nearly full strength axe (one archer defending) and lose. :mad:

To be continued…
 
IBT – Ahhhh! I really hate the way the enemy is displayed in Civ IV. There were five units next to Huamanga. Three are killed, but we lose two of our three defenders. We have a single badly wounded jag defending. We will probably lose the city next IBT.

6. 1110 – Move two HA within range of Huamanga, but the city is toast.

IBT – Lose the city and lose a HA.

7. 1120 – The barb city is auto razed. Bummer.

IBT – Lose a HA outside Huamanga.

8. 1130 – Marching towards the front and healing. Bump science, pillage a road between Arabia and the Incas.

9. 1140 – More marching. Move a HA next to Huamanga.

IBT – Lose the HA next to Huamanga.

10 . Kill the LB that killed our guy.

Less than an optimal set of turns. Sorry gents. Those maces have us out classed. I don’t see us making much progress without a lot of military.

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SC02_AD-1150.Civ4SavedGame
 
We are definitely outclassed if Inca is showing Maces and we are battling with Axes and Jags. I'm surprised the barbarians aren't marching maces around. If we can hold out another ten and build a bigger/stronger army to put some real hurt on the Inca I think we should try.

The other option is to jackal along behind Liz with our strongest defenders and some settlers. Lizzie will need to put a few more troops into the line than a single war elephant, though!


@Jeff - put every town that has the moxie on military. if the town doesn't have hammers build a settler in it for carrion picking purposes.

Resolution for the future: no more lone ranger garrisons in towns built in Apache territory. Losing that town, and the worker really hurt us early and it is still hurting.


Roster check

Jeff1787 - up
Bede - wandered around and grumped.
ucel - got us on the road to prosperity
Zalson - did an Officer Obie (8x10 color glossies with circles and arrows and a little paragraph on the back)
AdmK - use your best judgement and turned the front 90 degrees
Sir Bugsy - had more frustration than fun
 
Turn 176 (1160 AD)
Texcoco finishes: Courthouse
Christianity has spread: Texcoco

Turn 177 (1170 AD)
Texcoco begins: Catapult
Christianity spread to our lands. I did not convert.
Tech learned: Metal Casting
Tenochtitlan finishes: Horse Archer
Teotihuacan finishes: Horse Archer
Pink Dot finishes: Horse Archer
Tlaxcala finishes: Axeman
Archer defeats (1.56/3): Barbarian Axeman

Turn 178 (1180 AD)
Research begun: Machinery
Tenochtitlan begins: Horse Archer
Teotihuacan begins: Horse Archer
Pink Dot begins: Horse Archer
Tlaxcala begins: Barracks
Horse Archer promoted: Flanking I
Horse Archer promoted: Flanking I
Horse Archer promoted: Flanking I
Archer promoted: City Garrison II
Tenochtitlan grows: 9
New Tlateloco finishes: Catapult
Texcoco finishes: Catapult

Turn 179 (1190 AD)
New Tlateloco begins: Catapult
Texcoco begins: Catapult
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
An Incan galley moving our direction!!
Tlaxcala finishes: Barracks

Turn 180 (1200 AD)
Tlaxcala begins: Horse Archer
Teotihuacan finishes: Horse Archer
Axeman defeats (4.25/5): Barbarian Swordsman

Turn 181 (1210 AD)
Teotihuacan begins: Horse Archer
Horse Archer promoted: Flanking I
Tenochtitlan finishes: Horse Archer
Pink Dot finishes: Horse Archer

Turn 182 (1220 AD)
Horse Archer promoted: Flanking I
New Tlateloco finishes: Catapult
Jaguar loses to: Incan Maceman (3.92/8)

Macemen are coming out after us. I put our troops across the river and in some woods, but I doubt if it will do any good.


SC02_1220.JPG


Turn 183 (1230 AD)
New Tlateloco begins: Catapult
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Tenochtitlan finishes: Jaguar
Teotihuacan finishes: Horse Archer
New Tlateloco grows: 9
Horse Archer loses to: Incan Maceman (3.92/8)

Macemen moved into our territory.

SC02_1230AD.JPG


Turn 184 (1240 AD)
Tenochtitlan begins: Horse Archer
Teotihuacan begins: Horse Archer
Horse Archer promoted: Flanking I
Jaguar promoted: City Raider I
Pink Dot finishes: Jaguar

Turn 185 (1250 AD)
Pink Dot begins: Horse Archer
Jaguar promoted: City Raider I
Our Northern front consists of 12 Horse Archers, 3 Catapults and 2 Jaguars. We are training nothing but military. The macemen are killing us, literally. Currently there are no enemy troops in our territory.

Roster check
Jeff1787 -just finished
Bede - wandered around and grumped.
ucel - got us on the road to prosperity
Zalson - did an Officer Obie (8x10 color glossies with circles and arrows and a little paragraph on the back)
AdmK - use your best judgement and turned the front 90 degrees
Sir Bugsy - had more frustration than fun

The file:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SC02_AD-1250.Civ4SavedGame
 
Not a good sign when the enemy is fighting on your ground. I'll build some more troopers and see if I can return the fight to Inca, or make peace...

Looking at it now play it tomorrow....
 
it may be time to return to our roots. We are the snakeoil salesmen of CIV. We don't do war very well at this time. Shall we smoke the peace pipe with Hauyna? my bad for getting us into a war we can't win.
 
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