Scandinavia SUCKS

[gay_Aleks]

Hey, people! Newsflash, most human beings are selfish.

 

[Angst]

It's also "pretty normal" for people to care more about themselves, their families and friends than about random people they never met who just happen to have the same passport. Being normal is not the same as being right.

You tried to make my position immoral for putting a higher value on spending my money as I choose than on being forced to help my fellow citizens. Well, guess what. Those egalitarian and unselfish Scandinavians have the choice of giving a large share of their income into helping human beings in need, saving countless lives, and still keeping more than enough to survive. But by and large they choose to spend an enormously bigger share of their income on themselves, eating out, skiing, drinking beer. The rest of the world be damned. Just like me. Don't try to claim any moral superiority.



I'm selfish, but so are you. And the Scandinavians. We all set our own borders before which we restrict our solidarity. We all choose to spend money on stuff we don't need over saving starving kids. You do it too. So you are selfish. Go preach to someone else, I'm not about to sanctify you.

I'm sorry but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...a_percentage_of_Gross_National_Income_in_2013 . I know you probably don't think it's enough to be convinced that Scandis aren't selfish, but please understand there absolutely is a relatively meaningful cultural difference here.

EDIT: Also, it's important to note that the Danish foreign aid has just recently dropped the last few years to the listed level and it caused a huge uproar.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I think the key problem is that while luiz may be right in what he is foremost saying, he also insinuates a relativity that really puts people off. "Different people like different things" and statements of the sorts. And by this he is basically saying that it is all just a matter of perspective.
However, as true as that may sound at first, the trouble is that I get the vibe that his opposition argues from the perspective of the 'common good'. And is angered by luiz relativizing it all and not acknowledging that (as they think) Scandinavia is, overall, in the interest of the common good, better, and hence also absolutely better. (which makes luiz kind of a swine preferring a system which serves him better but the common good worse, arguably)

None or little of this was outright stated - but I feel like this might be the more or less conscious but actual debate going on here. Which leads to misunderstandings, obviously.

 

[Angst]

Well, I did personally argue that the Danish middle and upper class had it great. So it was not just about the common good, it was also about the good of individual people within the common-serving system.

 

[aelf]

No, those are factually true. Or aren't they? I didn't sugarcoat them, but I wasn't making any moral condemnation either. There's absolutely nothing "Randian" about my posts in this thread, quite the opposite.

Things can be true while being presented in a way that implies value judgement. Your setting up of a contrast between the fact that you can pay your own bills and that some people can't while using language that strongly suggests the former situation is superior to the latter is pretty indicative on its own. On top of that, you seem to be willfully ignoring the fact that your situation is pretty incidental. You can't imagine how you wouldn't be able to afford to pay your own bills? How about if you were born to a poor family and had drug addict parents and never went to school?

I'm selfish, but so are you. And the Scandinavians. We all set our own borders before which we restrict our solidarity. We all choose to spend money on stuff we don't need over saving starving kids. You do it too. So you are selfish. Go preach to someone else, I'm not about to sanctify you.

Someone can be a little bit selfish or very selfish, and the former is better than the latter. We all should have learned this on the playground - the kid who shares his candies and eats one is kinder than the kid who refuses to share any, for example. It's so simple most kids can understand that.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

@Angst
I imagine they got shorter hours, more holiday and more baby time. Did you already mention that?
Though upper class people are notrious for over-working in every country.

 

[Angst]

@Angst
I imagine they got shorter hours, more holiday and more baby time. Did you already mention that?
Though upper class people are notrious for over-working in every country.

I actually don't have the actual data, but in Denmark we were recently told to have problems with people not working enough. As far as I know, we have all these things. And yes, upper middle class and upper class people overwork our standard week hours.

 

[Angst]

Found a stat.
Working hours.
http://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS
Danish workers work much less than US workers. I wonder how much more GDP we would produce if we worked as much.

Maternity/parental leave.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave
Superficially scanning the stats, Denmark gets 56 weeks paid maternity leave to (almost) freely distribute between the parents. From what I can gather, US gets 0-8 partially paid weeks, depending on the state, and 12 unpaid weeks per parent.

Couldn't find a proper holidays stat (only a list of worldwide holidays, lel) but I think the working hours tell a lot of that story.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Danish workers work much less than US workers.

Yeah from what I gathered - about everyone in the fully developed world works much less than US workers.

 

[JollyRoger]

Bragging about lower tax rates while working more hours seems a bit silly. Sure, we may have lower marginal rates in USA #1, but the expectations of the number of hours we work is much higher, thus taking away our freedom during those extra hours per week.

 

[Phrossack]

We work so much because we're lazy.

 

[Akka]

It's also "pretty normal" for people to care more about themselves, their families and friends than about random people they never met who just happen to have the same passport. Being normal is not the same as being right.

Yep, but there is a large gap between caring more for yourself and people close to you, and promoting an uncaring society where it's "swim or sink" for those below and "bathe in your riches" for those on top.

You tried to make my position immoral for putting a higher value on spending my money as I choose than on being forced to help my fellow citizens. Well, guess what. Those egalitarian and unselfish Scandinavians have the choice of giving a large share of their income into helping human beings in need, saving countless lives, and still keeping more than enough to survive. But by and large they choose to spend an enormously bigger share of their income on themselves, eating out, skiing, drinking beer. The rest of the world be damned. Just like me. Don't try to claim any moral superiority.

I'm selfish, but so are you. And the Scandinavians. We all set our own borders before which we restrict our solidarity. We all choose to spend money on stuff we don't need over saving starving kids. You do it too. So you are selfish. Go preach to someone else, I'm not about to sanctify you.

Ah yeah, some layer of relativist crap, "everyone does it even when it's not comparable". It's just blatant attempt at self-justification, as said before.

Well, maybe one day you'll get crippled for life in an accident and will perhaps enjoy the fun of seeing first-hand what happens when there is no safety net and you actually need one

 

[BirraImperial]

If the Danish population is as homogenous as they say, I offer myself to help change that...

 

[Tahuti]

It's not so much that they tend to hate that there are benefits available should they need them, but often enough out-of-touch liberals with different self-interests will enact laws they feel control them in inappropriate ways.

I don't even think it is a matter of hate. Rather, a matter of indifference. To have a possibility for welfare is not contradictory to their lifestyle but neither do support it. They do care a lot about keeping taxes low, even if they don't pay much themselves, because it can alter the amount of support family is able to give to them.

 

[Angst]

If the Danish population is as homogenous as they say, I offer myself to help change that...

You know the cool thing is that we're often told here our girls are beautiful, and I've wondered if it was because the average-looking blonde was sexy to foreigners, and... well, we have way prettier people than represented there. And a lot of them. Please come around and talk with us, our girls are independent and open-minded. I'd love to bring you to the city.

 

[warpus]

I've been told that Norwegian people in general are not very open to random conversation with strangers.. well, maybe that's not 100% true - but it's supposed to be quite different than say approaching a random person here in Canada.

SO how do I approach Norwegian girls and get them to laugh at my stupid jokes? Basically I am looking at a reaction similar to the one in the above photo.

 

[Angst]

I've been told that Norwegian people in general are not very open to random conversation with strangers.. well, maybe that's not 100% true - but it's supposed to be quite different than say approaching a random person here in Canada.

SO how do I approach Norwegian girls and get them to laugh at my stupid jokes?

Well, they are open to conversation. They just seem cold. Just... Well, everyone will act cold until you approach them. Both parties having beer is a great combo though. There's a reason the OP's article mentions rampant alcoholism. We get warm and mushy like hot butter when drunk.

 

[Farm Boy]

You know the cool thing is that we're often told here our girls are beautiful, and I've wondered if it was because the average-looking blonde was sexy to foreigners, and... well, we have way prettier people than represented there. And a lot of them. Please come around and talk with us, our girls are independent and open-minded. I'd love to bring you to the city.

A blonde is a blonde. A room or photo full of almost entirely blondes is... I dunno, exotic? It's easy to fetishize, it has a certain charm and hell, I'm almost always a man for brunettes myself.

 

[JollyRoger]

If the Danish population is as homogenous as they say, I offer myself to help change that...

Without the flags, you would think that was a boat full of Fox News reporters.

 

[warpus]

Well, they are open to conversation. They just seem cold. Just... Well, everyone will act cold until you approach them. Both parties having beer is a great combo though. There's a reason the OP's article mentions rampant alcoholism. We get warm and mushy like hot butter when drunk.

Hmm looks like I'm going to have to increase my beer budget for the trip.