[BTS] SGOTM 24 Turbo Ants

Darius is really teching like a bat out of hell. Roughly 140 of our final-b per turn. We'll have to be fast ourselves to not lose trade bait. He'll have Lit in ~2t or Math in ~3t. Then Calendar in another 4t. Or Guilds in 11t.
 
Not running the EPs yet. I need Optics first. Overflow will not be a problem. Will pause to consider the EP thing.

Beg Darius for 40:gold:
rolling the turn...
T121

One axe moves south out of Moscow.
It's replaced by a freshly 2-whipped Axe. :undecide:

I decide to vacate the area (pillaging on the way out) in hopes that he will complete the Aqueduct with that 2-whip OF instead of another unit.

pillage some mines for 26:gold:
Bis won't offer Medi for Currency, hence we trade him Currency for 20:gold: since he is obviously researching it.

We have enough now to get Optics and see what Darius is doing.

T122

Optics
Spoiler Darius Tech :
Philo (2) :banana:
Yes! Another Axe leaves Moscow and the Aqueduct is complete :thumbsup:

We're going in!!! Everyone is leaving Novgorod, healed or not.
If Moscow doesn't cold-whip something, we are, best case: 11 vs. 3. That assumes no one gets counter attacked IBT.

but first, more to report
Barb city, Hittite
It's a monster, but I'm not sure why we care.
It's a 3 tile island with Copper and Horses.
It's 100% defense on a hill with 4 Longbows and 3 archers :eek:

Incense found on WhalesIsland

breaking for food. If I can snag Moscow next turn, I'll stop and make a more formal plan.

Major excitement. Had to move the report up and continue here.

T123

Moscow

He doesn't whip :dance:
HA loses at 23%: Axe down to 2.8
HA loses at ~40%: Archer down to 0.3
C1HA wins at ~50%
Chariot 99+%
injured HA 100%

166 :gold:
forge, aqueduct (no granary :()

Now it gets better...

Bis trades us Incense for Deer
Bis has Mono and will trade it.

and then we meet Gandhi !!
just past the barbs. Why didn't he sail a wb thru there? Or a galley? :dunno:
techs : medi, mono, Monarchy :sleep:
wants: MC, currency, and something
Barb city blocks resource trades til Astro.

CoL has exactly 1 beaker in it :D. I fired all the scientists for a couple turns. Good time to grow since we now have incense and whales coming soon.

Circumnav next turn! unless someone beats us to it. Movement bonus on T125.

Bis builds Colossus. We may want that if no Astro.
Seems likely he will build MoM since he has calendar. Maybe we should mobilize on those 2 wonders? We have no galleys over there :(

Lots of plans to make and it's pretty quiet around here. Stopping for the night.
 
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So, upgrade Tri? and promote to Flanking (cus it lead to Nav)?

Maybe not. We have to protect the Whales area, so why not just keep him a tri and promote to C1?
 
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suddenly we have a million things to do.
Missionaries: we can't build them yet. We can get Mono this turn. And change to OR.
:eek: we have 14 cities. :hmm: looks like OrgRel is only 1t anarchy still :whew:.

Darius didn't do a good job of spreading (maybe cus we're Confu already?)
The only other city with Confu besides the original (Stonecity) is Moscow!
Which, btw, means Stalin will switch back to Budda! unless he gets a spread.

Note: we can't get any caravels out if we do anarchy this turn. But I think missionaries are more important. They're gonna be slow. Stone spreads to Gaul. Gaul puts them out nonstop. Stone can't afford to whip more than 1. I'll see if it can build 2.

Taking Rep would make it 2t anarchy.

We need a missionary plan. I was expecting Darius to do this for us (or auto-spread) At least our galleys have something to do now.
 
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Missionary plan
We'll have to try and build them in 1t with OF when possible
This is the fastest I can imagine:
(edit: updated from rough to final draft)

T123 anarchy

stone
T124-125 Miss1 (2 whip) goto 2Corn
126-127 Miss2 (no whip, use galleys) to ClamIsle T129
128-129 Miss4 (2 whip - use galleys) to 3Fish T131
(edit: I just realized Stone was only a backup in the GP plan. Great! cus I was worried it's too angry and will be too small with all this missionary duty. Now, we'll just continue with miss's)
130 wealth 1t to save OF
131 monastery or Galleon?
(keep building more Miss) or maybe boats for Bismark

2Corn
(borrow 2nd corn for a while)
either 2-whip a 29/50 HA or maybe 1-whip a 34/35 Dog to save pop
130 Miss3 to TAT

TAT
1-whip 49/50 HA
131 Miss6 (to Whales T133-- needs boat in cowscity)

ClamIsle:
(delays caravel 3t to get max OF)
T128 2-whip caravel 28h/60
129 Miss5 to Ivorycity T131

3Fish
T131 Miss7 to Quahog T133

Note: Quahog is Budda and could need more spreads.
 
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Now that we can get mono, if we're considering RV, then we should get Theo before someone else does. Maybe Moscow can chop the AP? We'll briefly have OrgRel bonus and it has a forge.

Update: With Astro killing the totem pole, borders don't pop til T138

We could briefly gift Novgorod in order to chop its forests into Moscow. Only 1 forest will get the OrgRel bonus. We can get ~230 final-hammers from chops. We need 400.
Maybe 100h from overflows. maybe 50h (update: no slavery, only one, early overflow possible, but may not be worth it to kill 2 pop (no granary))
11 hpt for 6t, then 13 hpt for 5t.
Theo is possible T128, (Update: we did calendar, so Theo T130)
Probably at best:could have AP by ~T143, win ~T153.

Need a couple workers there to put back the Ivorycamp and copper mine and hill mine...and chop. Hmm... I guess I have to capture some russian workers ASAP.
 
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If we commit to AP and no Astro, then we've got a lot of GSs. We already don't likely need the Philo one, so we can double bulb Edu.
Skipping Astro could mean double bulbing Chem and bulbing Paper. Those last 3 GSs give us about 1000:science: each instead of the usual 1700-1800.
Trading maps is a fast way to explore.
Getting Theo (see above) allows us to get paper.

Note: once we get CS or Theo, we can't bulb Astro until we have at least paper+Edu+Ppress
 
GP Plan Options. Thinking out loud.

In general, we need to finish the plan early because we need to research Bio manually (then 1t liberalism). Bio estimate: 7 turns at 800 final bpt.
Possible cities: Starting with Worst cities
TAT (7-8 food)
(+9 food) Quahog, Southport
+10: Whales, Ivory, 2Corn
3Fish or ClamIsle can be super strong or they could both be normal.

Bulbs
(Philo) PPress, Chem, Edu, SciMeth, SciMeth

Minimum GS plan would be 5-6 bulbs (depending on Philo free)
#1 GAge
#2-3 Astro
#4 GAge#2 (non-GS from Cows)
#5 -10 GS's (one for GAge#2, 5 bulbs)

as we all know, #11 and up cost 200 more each so these would be at least 2 turns apart.

Max GS plan (7-8 bulbs -- 1 more for Edu and Chem)
Ultra Max we double bulb PPress too.

24 turns of GAge. Would be nice to save 8 of those turns for teching after SciMeth is bulbed.
So, plan for 16 turns of GS generation.

For now, I'm assuming no Parthenon, but with Pacifism. (+300%). NO banking/Merc

In a perfect world, with this set of cities, we could probably put out 8 GS's
on T+7, T+8, T+9, T+10, T+11, T+12, T+15 and T+18

I don't think any GP farm (because of forest limitation) is capable of getting the GLib and still be large pop, so that's out. NatEpic same problem? It's small, so I'll revisit this.
Otherwise, we only have one city (ClamsIsle OR 3Fish -- not both) that pull off a 2t late GS.
I conclude that we will likely cut the two 3t GSs and end the run by rushing one T+14.
Follow me?
That's 7 GSs, 6 bulbs. during 14 turns of GAge.

Cities (Size)
we'd want to pop them in this order:
TAT - 500gpp
2Corn (size 8-9)
whales (9)
southport(8)
Quahog(8 or 9) add a farm here?
Ivory(9+)
3Fish or Clams (11)

What if our organic research is dragging? What if we really wanted 8 GSs?
Spoiler Alternate 8 GS plan :
Instead of the 18 turn plan above, I would probably work StoneCity into the plan early. So you could consider a library here.


Timeline
To get our cities ready, our newest city (slowest to set up), Ivory City, will need 25 turns to get to size 9 with no library (that's T132 - win the game 154)
Ideally get it to size 10 (at T134) or, add a library delays GA start to (T139)

Conclusions:
GAge start: T132, win the game T154
6 bulbs after Astro (either Philo is one or we double bulb Edu)
Start TAT on a GS early, especially if we want to keep working those furs. (i.e. continue to work the 2sci even after T116.)
Slip a library into StoneCity as a fallback if you don't need military or multiple failgold whips. I suspect we need the failgold.

GP plan happiness

Only 5 of 7 cities get +3 happy for Rep

Southport will stay at size 8 (instead of 9) so it doesn't steal the +3 Rep happies from a city that needs it more.
One more city will have to survive without the +3.
All pop being equal it would fall on IvoryCity which is pretty low on whip anger, so I guess that works. Probably won't whip the library there then. Or caravels.

whales: T125
Dyes: probably won't arrive til T137 (2nd worker could rush this)
Spice: maybe a turn or two sooner. ~T135
religion: by ~T132
Rep: ~T132
Sugar? Gandhi (needs Astro)
 
We should probably face the reality that we won't be running 12t golden ages. At least not the first one.
I expect to have to capture MoM from Bismark around T140 (before the start of our 2nd GA)
So we'll have 20t of GA instead of 24.

Getting MoM (and Colossus) sooner seems hard since we don't have any boats coming soon to that area. Especially without Astro

The earliest possible capture of St. Pete is probably T126. Out of revolt T131. Able to boats. Stone could maybe send some. Might need a caravel to protect against Triremes
 
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With the Theo plan, I suppose we may have to trade Optics+Theo for Philo. (we can't let Darius build AP...or can we? :mischief: :hmm:)
maybe we can manage Optics+mono+gold for Philo.
In that case, we might want to trade for CoL this turn to enable this trade next turn. If we wait too long Darius will have mono.
 
Are ya'all aware of the ways we can manipulate the vote so Darius votes for us?
I have 2 tricks we could consider. I haven't done this in years. We'll have to test.

Candidates are the owner of the AP vs. the highest pop in the AP religion (excluding AP owner)
- The AP religion is set in stone once it gets built. It's whatever religion the builder was running on the final build turn
 
Unfortunately, we can't see what Darius is going to pick if we go into anarchy, but it seems like a good turn to do it since he may have no pick displayed next turn.

PPP draft

Research
On T123 (now)
Trade MC+Currency to Gandhi for Monarchy, Mono, and Meditation
Trade Darius Machinery for CoL+gold.

Gandhi: currency for mono+medi
Darius : Machinery for CoL+Monarchy+10g This will allow him to maybe pick Guilds (is that ok?)

Revolt to OrgRel (1t anarchy)

On 124 or 125 try to get Philo. (optics+mono+cash)

~T125 (After we see Darius research is not Theo,) commit to 100% Theo.

Cities: do the missionary plan + caravels and other obvious things.

I'm ready to continue, but I'll wait for someone to show up. A lot happened since last turn.
 
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Summarizing for Mitchum

1. Stalin switching to Buddha means Darius will be Annoyed with him, if no other plusmod has accrued. We might want to bribe him to war as part of some deal. Then D would so many plusmods we could DoW him at some point, CF, and he'd still vote for us.
2. Where is the Colossus? Where will MoM be? Berlin? We have galleys(galleons) plenty close to Bismarck...sailing west, if there are coastal tiles between. His capital is probably landlocked (see early analysis), but it's probably more to the east than the cities we've seen.
3. Do we really want to skip Astro? We still need 2 to 10 more forests. We still need 5 gazillion workers. We either keep Stalin or Bismarck alive or knock another AI down to 3 cities. We can do RV with Astro.
4. What's Moscow's population?
 
1. Does Gandhi know Darius, Stalin, or Bismarck? Does he not have Math, the imbecile?
2. Can we wait a turn or two for the Darius trade? If Stalin goes Buddha, we might bribe Darius in as part of the same deal, or what? And he's more likely to tech Math or whatever next. My t120 save shows Darius will do Machinery+10g for CoL+Monarchy. Maybe do that and save a tech for Gandhi? OR is Darius showing a lot of gold?
 
We know the other AIs are stone-age Neanderthals so skipping Astro eliminates a lot of capture gold. Do we care? Failgold is costing us a lot of hammers and pop,
 
Stalin switching to Buddha means Darius will be Annoyed with him, if no other plusmod has accrued
even better Staln's spy was caught so D has an extra -1 with him.

no path west to Germany.

Moscow is 5

Gandhi only knows Bis. No math :(

yea, we lost clams, killed the galley.

Darius will give only 20 gold
I like your suggested tech trades.
 
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how long will a non-SPI leader wait to voluntarily change civics/religion? 10t? When did he change to Confu? Not long ago.
I think no way he'll switch to budda in time to matter for the Darius trade.
 
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