[BTS] SGOTM 24 Xteam

zbgayumn · May 20, 2017

NobleZarkon said:
I basically want to put everything into the Liberalism race, once we (hopefully) win that then we can do some espionage again e.g. by running 100% for one turn.

lol - I was worried I was overdoing it!!

Noted re the trades, thanks.

Re scouting I haven't seen any big stacks from anybody yet.

The Knight in Oak is one of the two heading for the Southern copper on turn 1 of the assault.

Uploaded file with game paused.

Agree with Pete on the whipping. We can afford a couple 2 and 3 pop whips in Elm, Oak, Aspen, and at least one in Ombu.

9 turns for Lib at 100%... yikes, I thought we would be in better shape than that. Do one more round of whipping then build Wealth and scrounge for as much money as we can get. High likelihood that Darius is going for Lib.

Good luck!

Noble Zarkon · May 20, 2017

zbgayumn said:
High likelihood that Darius is going for Lib.

Absolutely correct :cry:

He'll trade it to us with 220g for Music and Chemistry so a small consolation.

Steel is 14 turns away but at an unsustainable -168g per turn, we'll get some capture gold from the Russians but still a slog. I think we run 0% research for a few turns and hope Darius techs Steel having done the above trade. I can play on later tonight but we need agreement on this next stage.

Spoiler SGOTM Log :

Spoiler BUFFY Log :

Save here.

Cactus Pete · May 20, 2017

Was not suggesting you use the slider to build spy points, just put all 4ept on Gandhi.

I'm skeptical that Darius will tech Steel any time soon, even with Chem. Wouldn't he be more likely to tech PP?

Why do we want Liberalism now? Economics and Free Markets might have some value, when we are ready to switch Civics again, but thinking just trade Music for gold right now.

Do we need Steel to take out Stalin, Bismarck, and Toku?

Do you know what's defending Horse City?

zbgayumn · May 20, 2017

Don't need Canons for Stalin, but probably do for Bismarck. Let's go for Steel and assume that Darius will get PP sometime soon.

Noble Zarkon · May 20, 2017

Cactus Pete said:
Do you know what's defending Horse City?

I believe it was 2 Longbowman, will have a peek with a Knight.

Cactus Pete said:
Was not suggesting you use the slider to build spy points, just put all 4ept on Gandhi.

Got you, will do.

Cactus Pete said:
thinking just trade Music for gold right now

I think that's wise. Lib is a good trade bait if Darius doesn't pass it around.

It's Toku I'm really worried about with him being Protective.

I'm tired and it's getting late here - I'll play on in the morning with the asault on Stalin and the limp to Steel! I'll put the EP on Gandhi and move the Knight first and upload now then pick it up tomorrow.

zbgayumn · May 20, 2017

Some notes on the current save:

*Now that we missed Lib, we can go back to more balanced city tiles. No reason to starve Bloodwood for a single commerce point.
*I'd like to see a couple Frigates instead of more Galleons. If they can go knock down defenses in coastal cities, it saves us time.
*Might need a Theater in Pine. We can't afford to let Ergili take over two more forests.
*Looks like the bulk of our army can offload in Susa and be next to Rostov on T177. Is that right?
*I would recommend sending some of the Trebs and Xbows (and maybe a Musket) further east. That way we can start bombarding Moscow while we take Rostov. I don't think Rostov will require all that many units.
*220 gold for Music sounds good.
*Apparently, Darius used Lib on Economics? Kind of a strange move, but hopefully he gets into Free Market soon. With Darius and Asoka running Merc, we're relying on Bismarck as a trading partner.

Cactus Pete · May 20, 2017

zbgayumn said:
Some notes on the current save:

*I'd like to see a couple Frigates instead of more Galleons. Second that. If they can go knock down defenses in coastal cities, it saves us time.
*Might need a Theater in Pine. We can't afford to let Ergili take over two more forests.
*Looks like the bulk of our army can offload in Susa and be next to Rostov on T177. Is that right?
*I would recommend sending some of the Trebs and Xbows (and maybe a Musket) further east. Yes. That way we can start bombarding Moscow while we take Rostov. I don't think Rostov will require all that many units. Concur, but, if Darius is not keeping him occupied, he could counter attack with stack or just throw a couple of mounted units at us. See if there's a good way to get our medic chariot to Rostov in time to help heal units.
*220 gold for Music sounds good.
*Apparently, Darius used Lib on Economics? Kind of a strange move, but hopefully he gets into Free Market soon. With Darius and Asoka running Merc, we're relying on Bismarck as a trading partner.

Intel on Bismarck will likely be valuable.

Noble Zarkon · May 21, 2017

Toku adopts Mercantilism sealing his death.

Darius has PP. Sell him Chemistry for 770g, Liberalism and his map, we're limping along at +8g per turn on 100% gold so too good a deal to turn down. There are some deals about if we want to sell Liberalism but nothing earth shattering

Our economic situation is dire, it will get a bit better as cities regrow but have started a few Courthouses and Banks.

Built Theater and Temple in Pine to combat Darisu border expansion.

Galleon chain set up.

Rostov falls with the loss of 1 x-bow

Darius loses Sardis to Stalin.

Moscow falls.

I'm in mid-turn but need to go deal with some family stuff, fuller report later.

Spoiler SGOTM Log :

Save here.

Noble Zarkon · May 21, 2017

Too big for one post.

Spoiler BUFFY Log :

Noble Zarkon · May 21, 2017

OK got the chance to finish off the turn but haven't hit enter.

Cancelled the Horses trade with Darius now we have our own (the Knights didn't fare well on the battlefield anyway), unfortunately he won't trade anything to us - Mercantilism effect I guess. Bismarkc will give us 1gpt for our spare dye, Gandhi 4gpt for our only whale.

I'll get the Galleon chain set up more efficiently next turn.

We have a Great General whom I propose to make a super medic out of the Chariot who is in Rostov healing troops.

We can sell Liberalism / Philosophy for about 360g which would edge us closer to Steel but we still need to get all the way to Medicine whilst building the 2nd wave of troops and a load of workers.

My plan is to kill Stalin later tonight and then we can take stock.

Latest save here.

Cactus Pete · May 21, 2017

NobleZarkon said:
OK got the chance to finish off the turn but haven't hit enter. Good progress. Appreciate the opportunity to suggest changes first.

Cancelled the Horses trade with Darius now we have our own (the Knights didn't fare well on the battlefield anyway), unfortunately he won't trade anything to us - Mercantilism effect I guess. Bismarkc will give us 1gpt for our spare dye (not worth it), Gandhi 4gpt for our only whale. Wouldn't you rather trade the deer?

I'll get the Galleon chain set up more efficiently next turn. Looks good. Consider getting a worker or two to Russia. Bear in mind that it will be inefficient to go backwards to take Vlad.

We have a Great General whom I propose to make a super medic out of the Chariot who is in Rostov healing troops. Concur with that. Why not move our medic chariot to Moscow now?

We can sell Liberalism / Philosophy for about 360g which would edge us closer to Steel but we still need to get all the way to Medicine whilst building the 2nd wave of troops and a load of workers. We need to get good value for our techs, as we are not going to have many more to trade. Be interested to get ZB's input, but, despite my stated concern about good value, advocate trading Gunpowder and Lib for PP, which we have to have -- wondering how/when else we are going to trade for it.

My plan is to kill Stalin later tonight and then we can take stock. You will have a busy evening. Hope you find some workers hiding somewhere.

Latest save here.

Our economy is not desperate -- pretty typical of a warring state. Don't think some of the newly initiated infrastructure builds are optimal (and the whip continues to be spared). This is especially true in cities with barracks and where whipping (which diminishes the value of both courthouses and banks) is appropriate and needed. Rather build commerce in them or units.
Courthouses in cities that are running maintenance less than 10gpt are questionable (see Pine and Ombu, where musket for two turns and whip would be my suggestion) ), as are banks in cities that don't have commerce over 30gpt (see WPB, where we can whip a unit for two pop quickly, and Elm).

Suggest whipping the courthouse in Mangrove into a lighthouse.

In Oak, where bank should pay off, suggest running 2 scientists and 2 merchants this turn, leaving ten hammers into bank for a total of 48, then 6-pop-whip bank into unit of your choice next turn.

Suggest whipping a spy in Rostov this turn. It will cost 2 pop, but we lose one anyway, and a spy (already at the front) for advance scouting should prove helpful.

War tactics suggestions:
Move some of the healed siege units in Moscow to the cow 2N of city this turn.
The quickest (and safest) way to get units in place to attack Yekat (and eventually St. Pete) is by boat. We seem to have enough units in Russia now to take that city, so consider taking galleons 2 and 4 out of the chain to do that by moving them to the coastal tile 1NW of the cow this turn.

Noble Zarkon · May 21, 2017

Thanks for the feedback, really appreciated.

I had eased back on the units as I was concerned about our economy, we need to war and get to medicine and build a load of workers. Appreciate you have more experience of war at this stage so will take your advice, my wars tend to be mainly early on - rushes or similar.

Turns out I won't be able to play tonight so will aim to play in the morning then hand over to zbg as we have visitors tomorrow night so time for more feedback if he gets a chance to chime in.

After tomorrow I won't be able to play again until the 29th & 30th due to a business trip then a vacation weekend. Maybe I'll be needed to take us home for an AP victory though

Should be able to keep in touch as finished with the Client who blocks the Forum!!

zbgayumn · May 21, 2017

Guys, I'm supposed to have a work call tomorrow night, so I may not be able to do much beyond look over the game. Pete - do you want to pick it up Monday and prepare for the assault on Germany?

I should be OK to play Tuesday through Friday. I don't have as much free time on the weekends, so it would probably be better if I hand off after Friday.

zbgayumn · May 21, 2017

Toku was a set up!!!

If you look closely, you can see that Japan is behind a wall of mountains/lakes.

horsehocky! I don't think we can even reach him without a DoW on Gandhi. Either we take Dehli and Pataliputra or we burn Prayaga and build a new city to create a canal for our ships.

There just had to be a dirty trick somewhere, huh?

zbgayumn · May 21, 2017

As far as immediate moves, please get PP from Asoka and get Toku's 120 gold for Theo or Philo.

I hate to say this, but I'm starting to think Steel is out of reach. Maybe we take Mil Sci as a consolation? Grens aren't as good as Canons, but if we have a 12-strength unit, I think we'll able to take these guys.

Cactus Pete · May 22, 2017

"Guys, I'm supposed to have a work call tomorrow night, so I may not be able to do much beyond look over the game. Pete - do you want to pick it up Monday and prepare for the assault on Germany? I will have some free time tomorrow and will do as much as I can.

I should be OK to play Tuesday through Friday. I don't have as much free time on the weekends, so it would probably be better if I hand off after Friday." Again, have some time but not a free weekend. I've no concerns waging war, but have little experience with other end games.

ZB, see that you are on Central time and I'm just an hour ahead. My schedule is pretty random, but when I'm home I can usually monitor the thread. Are there known times when it's likely you'll be able to respond quickly to queries in the thread and/or likely to be posting?

Feel pretty -- no, exceedingly -- obtuse not to have noticed Toku's isolation. Good catch. Is there no other option than to go to war with G to gain a route to Japan in order to eliminate him and facilitate a Religious victory? Without benefit of ships, it will be a long slog through Japan.

"Either we take Dehli and Pataliputra or we burn Prayaga and build a new city to create a canal for our ships." If we go to war with G, can we still get him to cooperate in a Religious victory or do we have to eliminate him too?

"Grens aren't as good as Canons, but if we have a 12-strength unit, I think we'll able to take these guys." By 'these guys' are you including Gandhi? Tough choice. If grens are your call, I'm fine with it.

Noble Zarkon · May 22, 2017

zbgayumn said:
please get PP from Asoka and get Toku's 120 gold for Theo or Philo.

OK

zbgayumn said:
If you look closely, you can see that Japan is behind a wall of mountains/lakes.

Cactus Pete said:
Feel pretty -- no, exceedingly -- obtuse not to have noticed Toku's isolation. Good catch

Likewise, can't believe I didn't click.

Cactus Pete said:
If we go to war with G, can we still get him to cooperate in a Religious victory or do we have to eliminate him too?

All we need is for him to have one city with Buddhism so creating the Gift City was a good move, we need to get the missionary over there before we declare war. It's close enough that he should accept it we just need to either gift it before the war (which risks him spreading Buddhism) or defend it during the war.

Cactus Pete said:
Is there no other option than to go to war with G to gain a route to Japan

I thought a trade route came up before for a short time, will explore more thoroughly. Probably take the Missionary back over, the new spy can scout Germany ahead of our troops.

Cactus Pete said:
I've no concerns waging war, but have little experience with other end games.

I'm happy to take us home to an AP victory early next week if required - still a long way to go!

Noble Zarkon · May 22, 2017

Just looking over the map before playing and Berlin will be a nice commerce city once we get it.

t187 - Novgorod captured although we did have a Maceman lose a 96% battle :cry:

t189 - Darius captures Yaroslvl, we have our Super Medic

t192 - Yekaterinburg captured, Dye to Asoka for 8g per turn

t193 - Darius has Scientific Method

t194 - St. Petersburg falls, it has a worker, an Academy, 2 settled Great Generals and a settled Great Prophet :goodjob:

. Hsung-Nu falls - I had left this to Darius but he knocked it down to one wounded defender and a worker so I swooped in with a Knight and picked it off

. I missed the announcement but at some stage Darius took Sardis back so Stalin is down to two island cities now. I had a bit of problem with Vladivostok as it's on a hill but re-enforcements are on their way from home. Asoka has Sci Meth as well.

t195 - Gandhi demands Gunpowder I say no. Tok demands we cancel our deals with India, I say no. An AP resolution comes up to stop the war against Stalin, I vote defy - the anger if it fails because of us will only apply to cities with Buddhism in them so should be manageable as we only have 2. Spy is now in German lands.

t196 - Vladivostok falls and we gain another worker. AP resolutions fails despite 293 for 8 against as we defy it. Novgorod and Yekaterinburg (once it comes out of resistance) have -5 unhappy as "the world considers you a villain".

t197 - Asoka will trade us Nationalism for Chemistry and 310g, this would open up the way to Military Tradition and Cuirs so I'm pausing here for the team to make a decision. We have both Horse and Iron so I think that might be the best path. I've been running science at 0% so we have flexibility to go in whatever direction we want. I have 2 Privateers on their way to harass any German ships prior to a war declaration. Troops are ready to eliminate Stalin next turn.

I realise I forgot the Mangrove whip you suggested Pete, sorry.

EDIT: Won't have any more time to play so officially passing the turn on now.

Spoiler BUFFY Log :

Noble Zarkon · May 22, 2017

Save can be found here.

Spoiler SGOTM Log pt 1 :

Noble Zarkon · May 22, 2017

Spoiler SGOTM Log pt 2 :

[BTS] SGOTM 24 Xteam

Emperor

Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)

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Emperor

Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)

Emperor

Deity

Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)

Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)

Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)

Deity

Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)

Emperor

Emperor

Emperor

Deity

Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)

Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)

Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)

Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)

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