[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices

[LowtherCastle]

In play-testing, I found the GSpy really useful as a worker escort, allowing 2-move by scouting for barb archers. It is also good for scouting Manchou later, before we capture it.

I don’t know who our target is… We should figure that out. I had been assuming from early on that it would be Roosevelt, and that we would leave Chongquing alone. If that is not the case, we may need to plant it in Europe, which obviously changes things.

We are not stealing CS anytime soon, unless we self-tech Alpha.

The recon post-DoW is an issue potentially, now that we didn’t recon from London. We should confirm whether we can circumnav from Washington only before we attack HK. I can check later.

AIs should tech faster after we capture their cities. Just giving them some tough love.

I'm planning to go back to London. Pretty sure we need one turn of recon there, for both the northern and western directions. London is the northernmost city in existence.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Added a couple details to the Report:

T15
Manchou's worker is on the corn.
Gua's TR is now with Yanan, so it goes through Shanghai's rivers for sure.

 

[LowtherCastle]

New thought on popping borders: We can use the cultural slider, if need be. That could pop borders in 2t in some cities, like Shanghai. That frees us to run Taoism, though I still don't really want to now.

Also, we can get the Kremlin on T31 actually. I'm thinking of getting the extra chariot out of our whipping boy Yanan instead of Beijing.

 

[Mitchum]

Hey guys. Checking in. Am I late? haha

I am sorry about my absence. I have not read this thread at all. Things are crazy in RL for me right now. I will do my best to catch up and start contributing but I likely won't have any time for the next few weeks. Maybe I can play the final turn or something.

Sorry again!!!

 

[LowtherCastle]

Hey guys. Checking in. Am I late? haha

I am sorry about my absence. I have not read this thread at all. Things are crazy in RL for me right now. I will do my best to catch up and start contributing but I likely won't have any time for the next few weeks. Maybe I can play the final turn or something.

Sorry again!!!

Use my first post to get an idea of what's happened.

 

[babybluepants]

our whipping boy Yanan

How much whip anger are you planning to accumulate there?

Could we actually send the Gua archer north to capture workers, and use a Gua-produced chariot for CG?

 

[LowtherCastle]

How much whip anger are you planning to accumulate there?

Could we actually send the Gua archer north to capture workers, and use a Gua-produced chariot for CG?

That's the solution. The chariot from Gua actually arrives on t22, 1t faster than from Yanan, assuming the worker's on the copper. Tsing just completed a granary so the soonest for a worker would be t20 unless he whips it, in which case it could be t17 already. We could capture it on t22, bomber already in place although it has other duties that turn. Pity we can't waste that lbm right now. Btw, the 2nd Gua chop is what enables that chariot. I love it when I actually do something on gut feeling and it turns out right. Followed from teh consideration that in this scenario the chops are most valuable right now.

Beijing is a perfect location for the bomber to attack all sorts of places.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Okay, that means I can play on. TOnight.

 

[babybluepants]

Okay, that means I can play on. TOnight.

What did we decide about the GSpy?

 

[Kaitzilla]

CF. Note that I said 4t after a worker steal; it's 2t if we steal two.
We have about 2x his power - that's probably the main reason. Or maybe that the bomber is threatening the city.

Here is the Power Ratio data for simulated Bismark Cease Fire Thresholds:

1 Bismark Unit killed (4 War Success) - 4 Turns to talk / 0.830 Power Ratio won't sign Cease Fire / 0.839 Power Ratio will sign Cease Fire
1 Bismark Worker Stolen (4 War Success) - 4 Turns to talk / 0.830 Power Ratio won't sign Cease Fire / 0.839 Power Ratio will sign Cease Fire
2 Bismark Worker Stolen (5 War Success) - 3 Turns to talk / 0.825 Power Ratio won't sign Cease Fire / 0.843 Power Ratio will sign Cease Fire
No Units lost on either side (0 War Success) - 8 Turns to talk / 1.078 Power Ratio won't sign Cease Fire / 1.088 Power Ratio will sign Cease Fire
1 Player Unit Killed defending (-4 War Success) - 8 Turns to talk / 1.780 Power Ratio won't sign Cease Fire / 1.791 Power Ratio will sign Cease Fire

Human Empires with lots of Power can bully the Deity AI!


In the Real Game, Bismark should be willing to naturally Cease Fire in 3 more turns without any additional effort by LowtherCastle.
Our current Power Ratio on Turn 15 with the 2nd strongest AI is 90,000 / 65,000 = 1.384
Even sitting still not doing anything, The Great Wall and that Bomber are doing work by contributing lots of Soldiers.

Spoiler :

Also, we took 0 diplo consequences when we DoW'd Bismark.
Everyone hates him.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Here is a few Screenshots from the Real Game Turn 15:

The World (Need about 1000 land tiles to win Domination Victory)

Spoiler :

Homeland

Spoiler :

Only 1 Worker was built in capital, so counting the stolen Worker from Bismark we now have 5 Workers.
The Russians have the only Silver on the map so far.
Weird there is not a single Barbarian in sight.

Hey guys. Checking in. Am I late? haha

I am sorry about my absence. I have not read this thread at all. Things are crazy in RL for me right now. I will do my best to catch up and start contributing but I likely won't have any time for the next few weeks. Maybe I can play the final turn or something.

Sorry again!!!

Welcome Mitchum!
Best way to get plugged in is to download team save, make sure it is Paused, and then look it over for a good while.
Save and team graphs are located on this page here: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php


Also, I'm officially back in town and can use my PC for Civ 4 again.

 

[LowtherCastle]

What did we decide about the GSpy?

Bring him home via Moscow. Agreed?

 

[babybluepants]

Bring him home via Moscow. Agreed?

Sounds good.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Here is the Power Ratio data for simulated Bismark Cease Fire Thresholds:

1 Bismark Unit killed (4 War Success) - 4 Turns to talk / 0.830 Power Ratio won't sign Cease Fire / 0.839 Power Ratio will sign Cease Fire
1 Bismark Worker Stolen (1 War Success) - 4 Turns to talk / 0.830 Power Ratio won't sign Cease Fire / 0.839 Power Ratio will sign Cease Fire
2 Bismark Worker Stolen (2 War Success) - 3 Turns to talk / 0.825 Power Ratio won't sign Cease Fire / 0.843 Power Ratio will sign Cease Fire
No Units lost on either side (0 War Success) - 8 Turns to talk / 1.078 Power Ratio won't sign Cease Fire / 1.088 Power Ratio will sign Cease Fire
1 Player Unit Killed defending (-4 War Success) - 8 Turns to talk / 1.780 Power Ratio won't sign Cease Fire / 1.791 Power Ratio will sign Cease Fire

Human Empires with lots of Power can bully the Deity AI!


In the Real Game, Bismark should be willing to naturally Cease Fire in 3 more turns without any additional effort by LowtherCastle.
Our current Power Ratio on Turn 15 with the 2nd strongest AI is 90,000 / 65,000 = 1.384
Even sitting still not doing anything, The Great Wall and that Bomber are doing work by contributing lots of Soldiers.

Spoiler :

Also, we took 0 diplo consequences when we DoW'd Bismark.
Everyone hates him.

Your War Success link doesn't work for me. In any case, if you're talking about the WarSuccess used for turns to talk etc., 1 worker stolen = 4 WarSuccess, just like a unit killed. Two workers stolen separately = 8 WarSuccess. Two workers stolen at the same time = 4+1=5 WarSuccess (or a unit killed with worker on tile = 4+1=5).

 

[LowtherCastle]

Thta kossin explanation on WarSuccess has another error. It's not really minus warsuccess for you losing but plus warsuccess for him.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Your War Success link doesn't work for me. In any case, if you're talking about the WarSuccess used for turns to talk etc., 1 worker stolen = 4 WarSuccess, just like a unit killed. Two workers stolen separately = 8 WarSuccess. Two workers stolen at the same time = 4+1=5 WarSuccess (or a unit killed with worker on tile = 4+1=5).

Fixed!

Thank you, that always bugged me.
Will save me a lot of trouble if I ever try to gift and capture 10 Workers trying to get +40 War success for capitulation.

Thta kossin explanation on WarSuccess has another error. It's not really minus warsuccess for you losing but plus warsuccess for him.

Whaaaat?
I need to do some more testing.

 

[WastinTime]

I see you're playing again. Great! I'm out for the night, but I don't think you need my help at this point. Good luck!

 

[LowtherCastle]

Turnset Report #2, T15 - 17
continuing from Turnset Report #1.

T15 1400BC
Had to step back, figure out logistics for 3 wkrs chopping those 8 forests, especially the unsafe chop at Tsing-1n2w. Need CF with Bis on t20-23 or t25-28.

IT
Hong Kong builds a galley. Hmbody. Interesting choice. Hope it stays home.
No IW yet.

T16 1360BC
Staliin's worker is roading to Mongolia. For now anyway. We could capture next turn. Hm... Do we let him make lots of 1t roads for us?
Rebase to Washington.

********************************
****** Shaun White!!! ******
********************************

IT
No IW
Moscow and Manchou complete granaries, Manchou with 28h, confirming that Toku's in the Industrial Era.
HK galley vanishes. Snafu for our future plans.

T17 1320BC
We spy the culture of 5 barb cities, including pop3 Chicago, Atlanta, and Dallas. Still have 19 tiles to defog to the west. Not going to happen any time soon.

Okay, paused and UPLOADED. We can capture the Moscow worker. Do it? I'm tempted to let him road for three more turns because Mongolia is clearly building a settler, is at pop1, so we should be able to attack Mongolia with no new units as planned. I think that's worth losing a few worker-turns plus those roads are anyway valuable and saving us a lot of worker-turns. Also, our archer can't quickly excort him so I'm not sure we even lose any worker turns, come to think of it. Feedback?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Another slave spotted!
I always steal the Worker unless it is roading somewhere I'll be going towards soon.

Do we need a road to Moscow anytime in the near future?
6 forest chops and a Cow/Iron isn't a super city.

Getting the capital improved earlier would be nice.
On the other hand, if the settler from Mongolia used the road to settle the Wheat southeast of Moscow, or that double gold site near our capital, that'd be nice too.

Spoiler :

Mongolia had grown to pop 2 a couple of turns ago and is down to pop 1 now

Our first fat AI city target mmm.


A little surprising Hong Kong got a Galley so early.
Will have to play a bit conservatively with Galley on Fish until we capture Hong Kong and sign a Cease Fire.
Probably move the Galley from fish into Hong Kong directly that turn.
We'll be relying on our massive Power Rating advantage and positive war success to get those fast Cease Fires.

 

[babybluepants]

We can capture the Moscow worker. Do it? I'm tempted to let him road for three more turns because Mongolia is clearly building a settler, is at pop1, so we should be able to attack Mongolia with no new units as planned. I think that's worth losing a few worker-turns plus those roads are anyway valuable and saving us a lot of worker-turns. Also, our archer can't quickly excort him so I'm not sure we even lose any worker turns, come to think of it. Feedback?

I think we should wait until we are ready to attack Mongolia. No reason to give him a chance to build an extra archer. That will also allow our GSpy to catch up with the worker and escort. What turn were you planning to DoW now?

A little surprising Hong Kong got a Galley so early.

Consistently did so in my testing.

I was expecting one AI city to be the Christian holy city. I guess we'll find out. My initial analysis also concluded that there was a barb population of 8 on T0. We see 5 cities already, so presumably they've been able to grow to pop 3 from pop 1?

Have you seen any barbs yet on our home continent?

It appears that the map is wider than the test map, right?