[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Phoenix Rising

Alerts are on, the problem was that I missed a new page in the thread. Have done it before, somehow it's easy to do in this forum format. Alerts only appear for the first new message after I've read the latest message in the thread. If I don't read the last message, alerts are off until I notice the unread messages and catch up.
 
lol, merci and yup 40 is lurking soon.
Also for the formula Elite :)

Overall we need..Great Scientist yay, maybe or nope.
I expect we need Astro, and bulbing always helps there.

Yanan library (mostly as it's only 90h) and Intel Agency are both very good, with Palace & settled Spy.
I think Bejing can cover units from here, and we also can see what's left after attacking Toku.
 
Well last tech we should need here is probably astronomy. Unless the Ai suprises us or war takes us into the later stages of this game. Without alphabet the Ai won't be trading much. They are all teching IW and one alphabet.(That we know of.) Toku will never trade that.

So GS could bulb edu and paper?

it's T19 here. We will soon have 6 cities and 7 workers. How does this normally compare to HOF? Do they normally give you so many free cities and workers to capture. The one thing that will likely slow us down is fact we may have to self tech most techs here.

I don't see this game lasting long enough for cottages. Maybe for capital but outside that scientists would be better. Stone would be good too. If an Ai does build mids it could be other side of the map.

How valuable would mids be here? Each chop is 78 hammers? So we would only need 180 from production. Add in forge and likely even cheaper. 4xforest in beijing could help here.

We planned GLH in another war based game. Turned out capturing it was the better move. I fear an Ai on other side of map might build it. If we wanted specialists it would be an option. Our coastal city has 4 food resources. The other cities excluding French are not so great.

Question is how important is warfare compared to mids and science.

Time for bed here.
 
Okay, had a look at the game. My first thought was we really need a settler from Yana for double gold+cows, but now I see you have that under control already. :)

Mongolia: T6 Stalin's score went up +4 points to 188. Moscow is pop 1. Demos show at one AI has a city pop 2. T7 Stalin's score went down -4 points, Moscow still pop 1. Stalin whipped something t6. 100% certain. Rival average population also support this. 3 other AI got pop increase t7 and rival average shows only those three have a city of pop 2, while someone else had the last turn.

Map size is indeed something like 96*60, don't remember exact numbers. Test game has same map size, have a look at it in world builder, then you'll see how far we might have to travel. Keep in mind map is toroidal.

I think eventually we will want that security bureau in cap, especially for espionage culture. Settler higher priority now. Then I'd like to cottage the hell out of the capital. Use double gold city as helper. In case you didn't notice yet, capital also has two non-riverside desert floodplain tiles. I think those can't be farmed (could be tested), but cottages work.

Question with settler in Yana is do we get it out before Stalin and where is Stalin heading with his? Most likely he would shove it in some really stupid place which prevents us from settling where we want to. As it finishes, he will have to send an escort with it. I don't know if he plans to send one of the current city guards, or build new ones for this duty.

As for the general plan, I think we should go very heavy on expansion all the time, both military and peaceful. With SP it is so much cheaper than it normally is. We will need to tech quite a bit, probably at least astro, possibly further, but here a large empire helps us a lot more than some early libraries.

Looks like we're ready to grab Hong Kong. Galley could also ferry those units over to Mumbai after that. Mumbai is within reach for bomber in Chongq. Taking out Manchou and Mongolia first though.
 
HOF has standard maps generated by the player, Gumbo...unless I misunderstood your question.

Excellent post, elite. Much to think about. I do think we should expand fairly aggressively. Settlers are tad more expensive on classical. Beijing could be a good place to build them while Yan focuses on growth/cottages, and Gang on specialists.

Stalin could send his settler W..we really don't know what is over there. We could try to meet his settler escort and nab it or just let it be free city later, if he settles it okay. With the extra expense of settlers maybe it is worth letting them settle.
 
Yep i was going to post that i forgot Stalin (like most other AIs) runs Org Reli, and this explains his overflow from granary whip..but Elite provides solid proof ;)

I think we want 2 more Swords quickly now, for Mongolia?
Maybe we can make Sword + Settler combo work in Yanan.
Toku units, those who survive can move on Biz.
Those from Roosy & Church on DeG.

Certainly in favor of library and running scientists in Guang now.
 
Long term do we think we want mids or is this a distraction to the expansion and war?

Yes I was pretty sure about the whip due to the 4 point score drop but Mylene was swaying me the other way.

If we go swords now it does not matter where his settler heads. He may have only 1 defender now? Hmmm. On live game looked like he was still building it? Yes still building it or something with 60+ hammers.

If we want mongolia.
With ivory we can slow build sword in 2 turns.
Maybe capital keep it simple. 17OF into sword+chop. Not sure how a 2 pop whip of settler with 47+ hammers would work.

Guang could really use 30h OF. A whipped sword could help this? It will be unhappy anyway past size 4.

Deg and Bis plan look good.

With stone and marble also great chance for fail gold with Sp bonus too. Over 160% bonus for fail gold?.

We would have 3 swords and an archer. Are we suggesting sticking to chariot plan and then perhaps whipping a sword? The sword would take 5-6+ turns to reach Mongolia. Assuming which chariot your talking about.
 
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Library 3-pop in Guang gives 99h (3x3 bonus for SP on each whip), looks good for boat overflow (we also make 3h each turn from priest).
Not sure if we really need another Sword now down there, unless we get bad rng on HK we will still have 3 for DeG.
Food is high enuf to get past unhappy at size 5, especially cos we will stay at size 4 for another turn (and get happy this one by moving galley in).

We can discuss Pyras when units are covered imo.
Chong (Roosy city) has loads of forests if we want them chopped.

Unsure on Bejing, dislike the thought of running intro troubles against protective Toku (cannot always count on them doing silly things like Roosy and his moving archer).
Imo the chariot would add some safety, Swords can lose against protective Archers.

Yup, coordinating Mongolia will take a bit of planning i think.
Should try avoiding bomber overlap again (with attack on DeG), and also how we produce those Swords. If we take one from Yanan and Bejing each, Yanan should move 1t sooner (unless we build roads, as in previous plans).

(was talking about Bejing chariot yep :))

I would use Yanan Chariot for protecting our 3.5 Sword on cows.
He should not attack an Archer on forest.

Side note, our Archer on silk should probably move into Bejing as happy guard, we will struggle there soon.

Currently thinking about a chariot attack on Mongolia instead, we have open borders even and could hit at a good time. Seems interesting, but i will test how they do against longbow.

Hmm..rng dependant, 4 usually win against longbow & Archer.
We would already have 1 after it's free from protection duty.
Big advantage of such an attack would be it's mobile and gives him no reaction time, what we see we fight so can calculate well.
We might be able to add Toku chariot, if it's not needed there after all.
 
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So Guang we will switch to library. Move galley back to city.
Beijing 3h hill and chariot.
Chariot to protect sword.
Silk archer to Beijing
Worker near beijing chop 1NE of Beijing.

Beijing you want to still build 30H chariot? Or use chariot near Americans? I would prefer to double defend our worker with archer and that chariot.

Beijing. If we go chariot this will staunt growth.

So 30 Chaiot
Then maybe 11 hammers into sword. Whip! That or grow and wait for chop.

So 7 turns from capital using chop and OF. 6 from Beijing using chariot. 11H and whip. Add in road and both 6 turns.

Attacking the archer on forest would of been crazy! Ackkk. I meant protecting our worker. Unless we intend to move the worker out of harms way. In which case yes protect the sword! We don't want his archer moving 1NE onto that forest. Moving our archer there makes sense.

If he only has 1 defender chariot attack is interesting. Timing wise the bomber is quite busy. Chariot is also useful to scout his city. Protection duty first! Chariots are also cheaper. With 40/17 hammers you almost have 2 chariots.
 
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Sorry I was preparing food.

It would be useful to kill that american archer before peace. Stop him meeting other Ai!

Chariots will also be useful going west. Swords will take many turns. Also the Ai may be slow to reach axes/swords.

So for cap. 17OF to chariot. Continue with chop and protect worker with archer.
Beijing chop forest 1E of city.

2 other workers to think about.
Does a road on the plain hill speed up the chariots or not? No point as bomber not ready? Pends on timing of the new chariots.

No need to whip as chariot in 3 turns? How many chariots would be ideal? We might get lucky and find 1 defender?

So do we move the worker onto the mountain first and then move west. Were going to lose a lot of worker turns. We could move onto forest but that has huge risks if the Ai worker killed our archer. Is objective to help road to city or connect the gold?

Road and cancel seems best. Hmmm not worth farming silk.

Is it 3 turns for road on desert?

Yes 2 road quickest way to connect city. We can cottage or farm all those deserts.
Agreed we have little choice and it does help units going west in future. Going around those mountains takes up too many turns.

So any other changes to what we have discussed.

Ep Romans or back to Toku. Really not sure Romans will offer much tech wise unless they already have IW. Impressed with German power rating here. What have they got?

I think Romans to answer final question.
 
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Counting, 1 chariot on protection but can return into Yanan afterwards.
Overflow & chop can build chariot #2 in Yanan, and gives nice overflow again for settler.

Bejing builds one as Toku backup, hopefully available for Mongolia instead = 3.
If we use worker 1s of Bejing for chopping, that will also give 2 chariots (yup they are cheaper).

Whipping Bejing looks a bit annoying, we would like to grow on all those nice hammer tiles.

Worker at Guang should move towards our galley, for gems.
Not sure what we can do in between, road & cancel 1s?

Worker 1s of Bejing should chop 2N1E, forest surrounded by 3 others with okay regrow chance.
(road on ph does not speed it up, nope)

Worker 2E of Yanan, hmm..we should probably prepare our gold city somehow, with roads?

Would this be the best we can do for gold city?
Spoiler :
Worker could move 1w then start roading.

Both i guess, with currency we lose 2 trade routes if the city is not connected, and also cannot get gold happy.
Yep 3t for desert, but i see no other route.

Okay, do we have everything for this turn besides EP?
Romans would be the only ones left without tech insight, and Roosy but we ruined that relation.

Recap on units..chariot on cows as protection, Archer on forest to protect worker, Archer on silk into Bejing.

Yup green, no new ideas.

Did not look at save if you uploaded ;)
 

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Green to make all changes agreed?

Let me just finish eating and then adjust save. 1-2 mins eating.

Let me load save from server again. Can't be too careful! Then I'll edit up save.

EP units, city builds chariot 1 turn. Capital chariot. Guang Lib. EP on JC.

Green to end turn or any inspirations?

Okay time to move this on. Fingers crossed on that archer.
 
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That went badly. Archer attacked archer and won with 0.1 health left. Grrr.

Destroyed our worker.
 
Ouch he really attacked the forest and we lost archer and worker?
wow..must be 10% chance or so -.-

Oh well, we got one worker as bonus that he should not have whipped.
Yep, better luck with that hopefully.

Whew, i think better we lost a worker than not getting HK.
 
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Really annoyed at that.

Okay green to declare on English bomb units and attack. bad rng out the way. (1 archer defending.)

Also take out his archer with chariot.

Okay declaring on English first.

RNG not going well here! Sword took city but down to 0.3! Eakk!

Toku cap has LB, galley and a worker farming.

Save uploaded.

Spoiler combat results :
Turn 69, 1240 BC: Roosevelt's Archer (3.00) vs SGOTM25's Archer (4.50)
Turn 69, 1240 BC: Combat Odds: 8.6%
Turn 69, 1240 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 69, 1240 BC: Roosevelt's Archer is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 69, 1240 BC: SGOTM25's Archer is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 69, 1240 BC: Roosevelt's Archer is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 69, 1240 BC: SGOTM25's Archer is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 69, 1240 BC: Roosevelt's Archer is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 69, 1240 BC: SGOTM25's Archer is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 69, 1240 BC: SGOTM25's Archer is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 69, 1240 BC: Roosevelt's Archer is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 69, 1240 BC: SGOTM25's Archer is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 69, 1240 BC: SGOTM25's Archer is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 69, 1240 BC: SGOTM25's Archer is hit for 16 (0/100HP)
Turn 69, 1240 BC: Roosevelt's Archer has defeated SGOTM25's Archer!
Turn 69, 1240 BC: While defending, your Archer was destroyed by a American Archer!

Turn 70, 1200 BC: SGOTM25's Swordsman 4 (Guangzhou) is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 70, 1200 BC: SGOTM25's Swordsman 4 (Guangzhou) is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Churchill's Archer is hit for 20 (34/100HP)
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Churchill's Archer is hit for 20 (14/100HP)
Turn 70, 1200 BC: SGOTM25's Swordsman 4 (Guangzhou) is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 70, 1200 BC: SGOTM25's Swordsman 4 (Guangzhou) is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 70, 1200 BC: SGOTM25's Swordsman 4 (Guangzhou) is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Churchill's Archer is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 70, 1200 BC: SGOTM25's Swordsman 4 (Guangzhou) has defeated Churchill's Archer!
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Your Swordsman 4 (Guangzhou) has destroyed a Archer!


Brutal

All swords need healing. In place I guess? Use promo for CR1.
Worker 1NE and road.
Do we send archer with stack. Safer I guess.

Worker in captured city finish that forest chop. We could still attack Tokyo here with 1 defender. By sea might be risky.

Sounds a plan given chariot delay.

Do we use beijing chariot to check defences in Mongolia? I guess keep closer to Toku's city.

With the galley Toku could in theory attack HK or coastal city. Galley is 4-5 turns by sea away,

Chariot 2N1E looks good. Chance to capture worker when we attack. Archer can join stack.

Keep archer for Guang I guess. City guard and MP.
 
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8% figures, oh well we had some luck at Roosy city attack :)

I would suggest what we are doing now is captured worker in city goes chopping that forest, and Yanan uses floodplains instead of horsie for growth.

Then we get our settler hammers next turn, and wait for chariot with overflow cos Bejing chariots will take a bit longer too.

Yep Archer joins our 3 Swords.
Chariot in Bejing i would move 2N1E.

Nope, we want Bejing chariot ready to back up our Toku units.
Agree on promoting Swords CR1 and healing in place.

Bejing and Guang can switch to food, silly governor in Guang.
Yup Archer needed there, and Sword can stay & heal in HK (then board galley later).

Looks all good.

Sorry was a typo, Sword i would leave healing in HK. Not needed to transport yet imo.
Green otherwise :)
 
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Any other decisions left?
Worker to road 1N of capital.
Archer joins stack.
Chariot 2N1E
Worker chop forest.
Switch to food in all 3 cities.
CR1 swords.

Updating save.

Green to end turn or any further thoughts?
Bomber to beijing.
Not sure what you meant by guang sword comments. I plan to leave HK empty next turn and heal in guang.
 
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New turn! Declare on Toku?

French will open borders. Trade routes?

3 defenders in German city. Toku could have the same. Hmmm.

I uploaded a while back.

I'll declare and move in a sword.

LB/Archer. He has 2 workers. One on wheat other on forest. Which to capture. maybe forest one? He might attack the chariot as it won't be blind. Albeit defensive script. I'll send in archer too.

Chariot to capital seems a no brainer.

Worker south of Beijing? Stone or chopping?

If we capture forest worker and he attacks us we may have a LB on a forest. Wheat is roaded so that is another risk.
 
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Good with DeG open borders :)
And yep let's see what Toku has, no turning back.

Sounds great, hopefully we replace our lost worker here.
Yup chariot into Yanan ofc, and switching to settler and horsie tile.

Worst case is he has 1 archer less and kills our chariot, but most likely he would not do that and defend his city.

Worker on stone makes sense if we want to build up Bejing, think we do.
Can road first, then chopping worker will not lose a turn moving and can join on stone as well.

Swords healing one more turn, at Chong.
HK Sword should promote too i think, for healing boost.

So yup, worker moving onto stone makes great sense for their movement.
We just have to remember road first.

My vote would be capturing the worker on forest, so if he gets attacked that unit cannot move back. This makes sense for our attack, an archer moving out always benefits, and could also lose cos chariot is stronger.

Good with galley 1e, i think we will drop that sword off directly at Shanghai yep.

Looks like green bear
 
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Any other decisions.
We could opt not to capture worker now? We might just lose it if he attacks us. Hmmm. Safer!

Galley 1e? I assume we will drop this off by sea. English galley is still out there somewhere.

Okay forest was my first thought. 1 less defender would be nice anyway.

Galley not that big a move. 1E is no harm.

Any other changes? Settler already in cap.

Open border has been done.

Green to end turn.

New page!!
 
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