[BTS] Shadow Game Time!! Immortal Game To Further up my Game!

[Fippy]

Hmm..depends if Astro or war takes priority
Normally i'd say Cats + any melee unit like Axes or Swords should be fine with Boudi.
No idea if HAs still make sense.

Since Astro needs Machinery, Trebs should be available much faster than Cuirs.
One advantage of Cuirs is that nice bulbing tree..but Astro shifts priorities around.

 

[sampsa]

I'm sure HAs is doable, but feels illogical. Yep, cats+whatever (even archers ) is one way if you don't want to overkill with cuirs. And yes, a good point by Fips that cuirs is very far off from the astro path.

 

[sampsa]

@sampsa is there an argument here for staying compact and just getting 6-7 cities while teching to cuirs? Or would you just REX until you run out of available land.

I played along just to T89 and did things a bit differently, basically I just beelined Wheel-Pottery (before BW) and fogbusted w/ warriors+scout

I don't think it really matters much to be honest. In general, below deity I'd rather settle 2 extra cities with 6-tiles than not.

In general BW before pottery is better just to get more cities faster (when those cities are very strong), unless you can go for HAs which would probably be the only way to make the extra pay back better than extra +.

 

[CGQ]

Looks pretty good to me. How do you feel about the position? If you beat Hannibal to pig/horse/clam (1N pig?), great. Leaves room for filler 3E of Vienne (steals corn, has forest, has green tiles to be cottaged). Vienne and Tolosa seem to be the spots to 3-pop whip next two settlers.

Techwise I would get sailing (trade routes, also scout coast towards Hannibal to open them), then go for 0% slider for a while to see whether they get alpha or monarchy. You can go for academy (makes sense in a long game, decent capital also), in which case staying at 0% slider for close to 20T also makes sense.

Spoiler Turn 74 :

Turn 72: Whipped library in capital. Tolosa will build library while growing to size 6 to whip settler with Vienne.

Turn 73: Found Hatty's borders:

Turn 74: Building more cottages, chopping WB on clam city and library in Tolosa. Or should I just build more warriors there? Also another question here...should I start running scientists in cap? Cap is about to grow into unhappiness (from whip anger) and we want that academy soon. If not, then when do you run start running scientists in general?

 

[sampsa]

Or should I just build more warriors there?

I think you have enough warriors, I mean Gergovia needs a police but that's it pre-monarchy.

If not, then when do you run start running scientists in general?

Depends, a lot. I think here you want to start running scientists immediately. You should be swapping the tiles between cap-Vienne-Gergovia a lot, using in the best possible way. Try to always be in -cap, and it's not a huge disaster if you get some unhappy turns, especially if you are planning a 3-pop whip like in Vienne.

edit: In general, when going for an academy, go for it as fast as you can. Also spend a lot of time at 0% slider before generating the academy to get max value.

My default use for first is philo bulb, intending to start a golden age with music artist. In this case the GS is not that urgent, as long as you get it around the time you are ready to run the golden age, which is usually ~1AD.

 

[CGQ]

I think you have enough warriors, I mean Gergovia needs a police but that's it pre-monarchy.


Depends, a lot. I think here you want to start running scientists immediately. You should be swapping the tiles between cap-Vienne-Gergovia a lot, using in the best possible way. Try to always be in -cap, and it's not a huge disaster if you get some unhappy turns, especially if you are planning a 3-pop whip like in Vienne.

edit: In general, when going for an academy, go for it as fast as you can. Also spend a lot of time at 0% slider before generating the academy to get max value.

My default use for first is philo bulb, intending to start a golden age with music artist. In this case the GS is not that urgent, as long as you get it around the time you are ready to run the golden age, which is usually ~1AD.

Spoiler Turn 77 :

Turn 75: More cottages up. WB will be whipped in clam city next turn. Capital running 2 GS; Worker is building that PH mine we talked about earlier

Turn 76: Capital grew into unhappiness so will build worker. Whip anger will go away there in (6) turns so I figure a 6-turn worker times perfectly here. I could whip a settler there but it's running scientists + that aforementioned whip anger. WB whipped in clam city (clam should help health issues in cap), will chop/whip granary after. I will give corn back to Vienne to grow to size 6 and whip settler then. Tolosa chopping library. Next size will whip settler. Sailing comes in next turn...

Turn 77: Shall I make my citizens jews?

Hatty's lands. His cap must be to the south.

Our lands.

Uhh...really bro?

Great...saves me the trouble of settling it myself

Normally I go ALPHA by now. Should I or go AESTH to music for free GA? I've always gone ALPHA>Currency>CoL (and get the religion usually) then AESTH>Lit>Music and get a GA by 1 AD. (All while trading Monarchy/IW with AI.) Math AI for some reason never gives it to me so I always tech it -_-

 

[Fippy]

Good question on the Reli switch..they sometimes send more missionaries over while you didn't convert yet.
Not sure if Hanni does (no zealot).
I try to time Anarchy so it's not delaying settler & worker builds (but that might not be possible if you still expand).
Building up diplo points is certainly useful, more so if you can reach friendly while looking at Astro and hoping for a lucky trade like MC.

 

[sampsa]

Sorry, have no time this weekend to look at the game. Solid advice by Fippy of course!

 

[lymond]

Not read everything, so sorry if repeating stuff. I'd say those horses are def a priority so two more settlers here, one of which I assume will be whipped next turn. Bibs can 2pop the worker next turn (still keeping 2 scientists) into another settler for pigs city. New worker can chop two W of Bibs into settler an start roading that direction. Hopefully so food around those horses somewhere, but you'll want them regardless.

Corn is probably tradeable to Hanny(nvm..he has it...gift him sheep when a corn is online), so I'd look to start getting those online soon so you can trade him something. I think he does not plot a Pleased, so working toward that would be nice. Both are WE but that may change soon. I'd accept any requests from Hanny over Hatty here since he is far more aggressive than her.

On Fractal, I'd also consider a scout wb soon to see if other land masses and AIs are reachable.

 

[lymond]

Played from your last save. Attaching a save @1AD if you want to check for reference later. Notes below:

Spoiler :

9 cities. I'm in HR and Paci for a couple of turns....got reli from CS and PHilo (bulbed) but updated Judaism a few turns ago when Hatty got infected and happiness was needed. Hanny made the stop trade request IBT the turn he and Hatty were to stop being WE, so I had to agree to it to keep him at pleased. Really annoying though as, again, I could see that they stopped being WE that turn due to Jewish and peace, but because I had to agree to the embargo Hatty now has the malus with Hanny, so next turn he is still WE with her. Hatty should open trades again soon I think but not she may request embargo at some point, but Hanny should build up enough diplo with her soon.

Ha...came really close on GLH in the new pigs city in the SW of Bibs....like 4 turns. I was not expecting to get it but worth a try..the cash is nice to finish up Currency now and try to go for Music for GA and caste switch.

I teched Alpha>CS (which still had reli>Maths>bulbed Philo>Monarchy (no still had it and Hatty got it like the turn before I finished)....traded for IW and Mono...and teched masonry and PH somewhere in there in 1t each. With Paci and Jud I'm accumulating some GPP in a few cities now for bulb rush with GA. So the decision on going Astro, or rather MT to subdue the continent first.

Spoiler Pic of Boudi Empire :

 

[CGQ]

Not read everything, so sorry if repeating stuff. I'd say those horses are def a priority so two more settlers here, one of which I assume will be whipped next turn. Bibs can 2pop the worker next turn (still keeping 2 scientists) into another settler for pigs city. New worker can chop two W of Bibs into settler an start roading that direction. Hopefully so food around those horses somewhere, but you'll want them regardless.

Corn is probably tradeable to Hanny(nvm..he has it...gift him sheep when a corn is online), so I'd look to start getting those online soon so you can trade him something. I think he does not plot a Pleased, so working toward that would be nice. Both are WE but that may change soon. I'd accept any requests from Hanny over Hatty here since he is far more aggressive than her.

On Fractal, I'd also consider a scout wb soon to see if other land masses and AIs are reachable.

Spoiler Turn :

Turn 78: I whipped worker in Bib and settler in Tolosa:

Turn 80: workers building road towards horse city. Should I whip the libraries in Tolosa and Vienne or switch to settler in Vienne instead? Should I just whip settler in capital too? It has 12 turns of whip anger:

Hanny's capital:

 

[sampsa]

I don't think next settlers are so urgent that I'd stack whip anger, especially in capital which is academied soon. I'd switch to warrior now btw to grow, then switch back to stagnation. Give the 6-tiles away if possible, no use in turning them into 6. Anyway, getting the academy is most important. I'd remain at 0% slider.

I think Vienne can whip a settler, as long as those cottages are being worked by another city. If not, grow to another size (into unhappiness) before whipping. Tolosa should probably keep putting to the library, since you've started it. Maybe 3-pop whip next settler.

How are you handling the barb archer in the south? After Kerkouane is settled, your eastern warrior is not doing much. Also, the main issue of the map is probably now dawning on you. Very hard to get -resources! Monarchy will be very important, so you are paying a high price for not directing your as now you don't know the tech path of neither of your trading partners. I'd put points on Hannibal now.

 

[Simple Machine]

@CGQ just chiming in again to say this is a fun map, haven't played Boudica in a while I played it through to the end. Won't put any spoilers in past where you have gotten to.

Spoiler My early tech path, up to T89 :

I played the early game differently, went Ag-->Mining and then decided to immediately do Wheel-->Pottery and only then BW. I also settled on the original PH with the two corns, so I didn't need AH that early (and as a result, all my city placements were different). I think your tech path was Ag-->Mining-->BW and then Wheel-->Pottery? So maybe you would be able to expand faster than me but perhaps got your cottages up slightly later.

(I also chose not to be very aggressive with expanding, which may or may not have been good. I also later realized the capitol should be moved to the flood plains river, so I ended up wasting hammers later to build the Palace there. Think you made the right call with scouting out and settling in the FP from the beginning.)

After BW, I went AH-->Fishing-->Writing, then beelined Monarchy (reached 675 BC).

If you want to compare your T89 (650BC), with mine, I have 5 cities, 28 pop, 7 cottages, 9 hamlets and 5 villages, and also 4 granaries, 4 monuments and 3 libraries (+1 barracks). At 100% slider I make 102 beakers at -32 GPT, and at 0% slider I make 7 beakers at +48 GPT. Just think it is interesting to compare different early game approaches since that is one area that I want to improve on too, there is always something that can be better optimized.

From your last post, seems like you're in a good spot. Lots of juicy riverside cottages being worked. I see you are going for Alpha, did you consider beelining Monarchy instead? Even being charismatic, I think we benefit from Monarchy here because of the high growth potential of our riverside cities.

 

[ariosto]

I also decided to play the beginning of this game and check the alternative tech path.

Spoiler T67 :

Settled and put first 3 cities as you, and the fourth was the clam city. Great scouting, btw. I would've settled on that double corn PH in the blink of an eye.

I am a big fan of early BW and go for it before pottery 90% of my games, but not in this one. Went Agri -> AH -> TW -> Pott -> Mining -> BW (T53) -> Fishing -> Writing (T67)
Surprisingly, late BW didn't slow down expansion that much. Second city was found T33, third T50, fourth T58. Early pig pasture brings 2 every turn for more than 30 turns, that's almost like 3 chops, but without spending worker-turns.

This is an amazing map to learn about food sharing. It is always better to give maximum food to one city until it grows, then give it to other city, especially when one of the cities build worker/settler. This is because granary only works when city grows, so you need make this happen earlier and more often. This is micro intensive though.

If you want to bulb Astro don't forget to skip Civil Service. Unfortunately, skipping Bureaucracy makes academy in capital less appealing.

 

[sampsa]

Second city was found T33, third T50, fourth T58.

Yes, that is very similar what I had going agri-mining-BW. I guess it's because there are plenty of good tiles, so the value of chopping goes down.

This is an amazing map to learn about food sharing. It is always better to give maximum food to one city until it grows, then give it to other city, especially when one of the cities build worker/settler. This is because granary only works when city grows, so you need make this happen earlier and more often. This is micro intensive though.

Indeed, a very good map for learning city management.