Should confederate monuments be destroyed?
- Thread starter Disgustipated
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Berzerker
Deity
destroy/move public statues
Seemingly we can "dig up the dirt" on pretty much any Historical figure. I read a biography years ago about MLK and his womanizing. I deeply admire him nonetheless. And Washington. And Jefferson.
And what will the future say about the heroes of today? Kennedy had a dog?!! Gore drove a car?!! Valka didn't free her cats?!!
The argument over Rommel's statue raises the question - Aren't there lot's of NAZI statues (even AH) - in private collections? Not in public.
And what will the future say about the heroes of today? Kennedy had a dog?!! Gore drove a car?!! Valka didn't free her cats?!!
The argument over Rommel's statue raises the question - Aren't there lot's of NAZI statues (even AH) - in private collections? Not in public.
Lexicus
Deity
Do you think womanizing is morally equivalent to owning slaves?
Berzerker
Deity
thats true, why one slave owner and not the other?
had Washington fought a war against the US to keep slavery legal 150 years ago he might not be given slack
had Washington fought a war against the US to keep slavery legal 150 years ago he might not be given slack
Lexicus
Deity
For the record, I'm not a big fan of George Washington either.
"Removing those statures is removing history."
Those who support keeping the statures will be amazed to learn that a more extensive history exists in books.
Those who support keeping the statures will be amazed to learn that a more extensive history exists in books.
jackelgull
An aberration of nature
This argument is totally stupid to be honest. The presidents on Mount Rushmore have a legacy that goes beyond evil. In 1861, the Confederate leadership was given choice - they saw the long moral arc of the universe bend against them, and chose to lead their people into deprivation, death and ruin. Thomas Jefferson wrote the US Declaration of Independence, but Jefferson Davis' legacy will always be as simple and evil as the use of armed force to preserve slavery. There is no "noble ideals" in the Confederate cause to justify the veneration of their leaders.
Lexicus
Deity
Mount Rushmore is a criminal desecration of a site sacred to the indigenous people of North America
Don't you know, Washington and Lee are literally the same.
If you understood the reality of either modern or past Native American culture, you would not make such a ridiculous statement.
Perfection
The Great Head.
I think Trump is more worried that Southerners will take down statues of him when they come to fully understand how much of a sleazebag he is.
Lexicus
Deity
It doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about.
Thorgalaeg
Deity
Why in all movies general Lee appears as a cool and honorable guy? Was he better than the rest of the confederates or something?
Berzerker
Deity
I suspect Washington would have sided with the USA rather than Virginia in 1861 because of the role he had in making the USA, but who knows. Statehood was much more important to people back then.
Lexicus
Deity
His army kidnapped free blacks in the North and sent them south to be sold as slaves, so it's total BS
One of my greatest fears for the future of the US is that minority Americans will take up the slogan "No peace without justice".
They're building this just down the road instead.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
I don't presume to know much about American historical figures, as evidenced by my obviously wrong description of Mt. Rushmore. (I actually thought there were 5 faces on it, which is why I on purpose said 4)
My point is that even though some (most?) of those Confederate statues should probably be taken down, as a lot of them seem to have been put up right after the first couple concentrated efforts by the American government to stomp out some of that racism, it's silly to want to take down all of them, just because they're "confederate monuments". The obviously improper ones can go, but if you take down all of them, you'll eventually be able to use the exact same logic to take down almost any historical monument. Society becomes more progressive over time and looking back we usually find our ancestors to have been .. not quite as civilized as we are today.
I suppose if you say that the confederate movement was inherently racist and evil, like the Nazis, then yeah, take all of them down. But just a monument of some general who was fighting in the war as a duty to his country, with no hateful or racist mentions anywhere, and no confederate flag to be seen? If monuments like that exist, why not remember the man for what he did? The civil war was a part of American history and it split the country in two. I don't think it should be erased from history just because the confederate flag turned into this hateful symbol of racism. It was all a part of American history whether people like it or not, and I can see a lot of people in the south not wanting to take down statues of generals (or whoever) who fought for their land, even if the overall cause was in the end unjust.
I of course say all this not knowing what sort of monuments are even up. I have read that a lot of them were put up well after the fact, by people who were upset by affirmative action and integration in colleges and so on. Those can probably go. But getting rid of all of them seems over the top
Only to the ignorant.
What does it mean when you say a tribe holds land sacred?
Who or what determines which lands a tribe holds sacred?
The Black Hills were given to the Lakota (in perpetuity) in 1868 and then taken away in 1876.
No, of course not. Just making the point that everyone has a skeleton in their closet. We are all sinners.
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