Should Universities Give Liberal Arts Programs?

[dusters]

@Hygro

I can feel badass with my 3 unfinished BA's and physics, but in the job market they don't take those overzealous think tanks too seriously, that's what i have been told in job interviews.

it's like - "you are applying for a client service position, but your Cv says CEO, nothing less".

We won't hire you, because we know you are smarter than everyone in company, but we got the initial buisness idea and money, so we don't need an another CEO.

 

[Sanguivorant]

I remember my dad telling me one time that he was overqualified when he went to an interview for a job, so he didn't get the job.

 

[El_Machinae]

I am thinking of taking accounting because it is a profession in it-self that involves tangible work. Therefore, it is easier to market to other people than economics. Correct me if I am wrong.

You're not wrong. It's more specialized, whereas economics is more broad. You learn more math in economics, you learn about more about the laws in an accounting program.

I'm not sure if it's a better way to market yourself, but I'll not deny it's easier. An accounting designation is more communicative than a BA degree.

But, this seems sideways to your OP. It's very easy to learn accounting from a book, relative to many other degrees.

 

[Farm Boy]

People will never stop dying, and they will always want to bury their loved ones. So this is a viable career path.

True, but from someone who has spent at least some significant time operating machinery, being a part time (and pretty bad) fix it man, and the like: even though I heartily recommend tool and die as a viable career path in the US right now: there are a finite amount of technical jobs available. Yes, we need welders and machinists and machinery operators. But we're making their labor more and more obsolete as we automate it. A student with a liberal arts degree that is at least nominally trained to think about thinking, has some broad based background to enable them to pick up a change of career pace is not ill suited to get up to speed as a ditch digger with some employer side training. Employers screaming about skills gaps and bemoaning the lack of technically apt employees are pretty much full of crap from what I can tell. If they were truly hard up for employees they need they'd be offering to pay more, and they aren't. Wages in hands-on technical fields have been largely stagnant along with the rest.

 

[Hygro]

@Hygro

I can feel badass with my 3 unfinished BA's and physics, but in the job market they don't take those overzealous think tanks too seriously, that's what i have been told in job interviews.

it's like - "you are applying for a client service position, but your Cv says CEO, nothing less".

We won't hire you, because we know you are smarter than everyone in company, but we got the initial buisness idea and money, so we don't need an another CEO.

Honestly if I had an applicant with 3 unfinished BAs who is working on a fourth different thing and calls her or himself "CEO" instead of "founder" I'd see more red flags than Turkish military base.

Remember, it's gotta be finished to be badass, not merely "I thought of doing it once"...

 

[Zack]

Why would you even bring up three unfinished degrees in an interview or put it on a resume?

Spoiler :

(unless it's something you're currently working on, obviously)

 

[Angst]

This is interesting. What is being done currently in Denmark to discourage people from pursuing the liberal arts?

Universities in Denmark are publicly funded and macro administration (ie funding and policies) is done by the state. So it's easy for the state to intervene, while keeping a dialogue with the university administrations in order to ideally not screw up too bad.

It's not simple discouragement, it's limitation of entry. As I said, education is free, but not freely available, certain degrees require a good high school average to enter. This is because of limited entry, only a certain # of applicants are allowed to take classes. The policy encompasses cutting down on the number of certain Masters degrees and will decrease the number of students that get degrees with a smaller chance to get work with, such as philosophy and literature science.

The policy is controversial, however, it has caused quite an outrage, especially since it hits important Masters such as German or Italian (where only a small number of Bachelors take their Masters, they usually diversify and take other Masters than their Bachelor). Also, and this is a personal issue, because the university institutes get funding depending on the number of students that pass, there will be lesser money for personnel, meaning we will see firings of academicians. This is not ideal. We need to produce knowledge, even in stuff like musicology or history. So this policy makes the university bleed quite a bit.

But well, that's another issue and perhaps have little to do with the subject matter (whether "liberal arts" degrees are worth it jobwise). The Danish stats say they are actually worth it (another point of critique of the policy, it's accounting for the last ten years or so, meaning that a bad unemployment rating in 2004 means a subject may be butchered today), the wide majority of "liberal arts" degrees are fundamental to hiring, especially as both private and public institutions are opening their eyes to the power of critical thinking learned from the "liberal arts" courses.

 

[dusters]

Honestly if I had an applicant with 3 unfinished BAs who is working on a fourth different thing and calls her or himself "CEO" instead of "founder" I'd see more red flags than Turkish military base.

Remember, it's gotta be finished to be badass, not merely "I thought of doing it once"...

I apologise myself for not putting myself in an understandable manner, but...

You see, i have spent time studying pedagogy for 1 year, 10+ hours a day + lectures. It doesn't matter to me if the BA needs 3 years 2 hours a day + lectures. I, for myself, have gotten the grasp of the thing. Call it autodidactism, if you wish. I got a job in school soon after.

It doesn't matter to me if i have finished the degree oficially, since i have put more time/ effort already than the ones who have. Usually.

Second BA was philosophy - again, i studied my brains out of the thing - read piles of books, read forums, exchanged e-mails with people who were already MA or Phd in philosophy... After a while i found out that my so called professors understand the material less than i do.

So I proved them and they told me that I'm free to become a professor myself, if i wish to. Ok, fine, but i'm not spending 7 years for Phd in one field just to prove somebody i'm worthy to be called a professor.

Third BA was in Baltic languages -

There i got the furthest formally, studied 1.5 years out of 3 total. At one point i was mocking half of the University for being stupid. I'm a bully like that - I go up to the faculty boss and tell him to his face that his students are bad and he should improve things/discipline here. He said that nobody would pay him more if his students would get better. Oh, well.

Fourth BA in Physics -

I actually like it here, except for the fact i want to study Theoretical Physics and Quantum Physics. So they interviewed me and told me that i can come only for the exams, no need to attend a single lecture. Best Uni i have attended, hands down.


edit - i never call myself anything. Formally - i got finished high school. That's it. I'm very down to earth in the interviews. However, i have put years and years of my time to study the stuff in those 3 unfinished BA' s and it would be illogical not to put them. How would i explain what i have been doing since graduating high school then?

 

[Hygro]

It's a tough call, I'm not in a radically different boat being 27 and still an undergrad. I bounced around majors a bunch as well before settling on one 3.5 years ago, and have been in and out of college the whole time doing music or just exploring existence.

In the end, when marketing myself, I find the best option is to say the most about the most, and the least about the least, and don't try to sprinkle it in. It's like mixing too many ingredients that distract from the dish, or overcluttering a song without a strong central motif. While it may sound good to you because it's you, it won't to others. I have produced probably 40+ hours of music, but I wouldn't put that bit in my portfolio because hardly any of that is finished and most of it is music only I'm going to appreciate.

Focus and completion are your friends, and its what employers are looking for as well.

 

[dusters]

Well, I'm happy you responded like this to my angry message

I reread it many times and what i want is, what the bottom line is - i want better education for everyone. That's why i have been criticising so many people in lead positions in Universities.

As for marketing - the point is - if you are irreplacable, you can get away with almost anything.

So currently i'm self-employed, work only with people I like and do only interesting jobs. I teach math/physics lately, i also like to teach chess/bridge, but math is much more of an universal need.

If i were to hire someone, that person would have to get their priorities very straight. I don't care about their education, they have to get the job done fast and they have to be extremely reliable.

/offtopic

I'm an artist as well (singer/dancer), so after thinking how and where i could work, it basically dawned on me that in industry there are two options - you either get popular or you don't

Florence Welsch from Florence and the Machine. She attended Liberal Arts school, took a year off to focus on music. If she was to fail, she would get a degree and probably teach music to kids. But she didn't fail.

 

[Hygro]

True story, if you are irreplaceable your leeway is great. Glad you've found what works for you. Let me ask though, if you were hiring based purely on a resumé, how would you ascertain if they can get the job done fast and be extremely reliable?

 

[dusters]

Intuition and tests.

I have self-studied psychology, i have attended psychotherapy for 14 years, i have completed so many tests myself.

I know where to find tests which would fit the job or how to make those tests myself.

My (and my friend's) last idea was about cat cafe. We would need cat specialists, cooks, cleaners, kitchen workers, accountants...

So basically i need a huge amount of acquaintances in any of the fields involved in my buisness to know if the person i'm hiring is a decent professional. Luckily i have a childhood friend who has Phd in economics and after reading my buisness plan, he said it's worthless. That saved me a lot of time. Because some people lie a lot if it's in their interest, sadly.

 

[Smote]

Well, I'm happy you responded like this to my angry message

I reread it many times and what i want is, what the bottom line is - i want better education for everyone. That's why i have been criticising so many people in lead positions in Universities.

As for marketing - the point is - if you are irreplacable, you can get away with almost anything.

So currently i'm self-employed, work only with people I like and do only interesting jobs. I teach math/physics lately, i also like to teach chess/bridge, but math is much more of an universal need.

If i were to hire someone, that person would have to get their priorities very straight. I don't care about their education, they have to get the job done fast and they have to be extremely reliable.

/offtopic

I'm an artist as well (singer/dancer), so after thinking how and where i could work, it basically dawned on me that in industry there are two options - you either get popular or you don't

Florence Welsch from Florence and the Machine. She attended Liberal Arts school, took a year off to focus on music. If she was to fail, she would get a degree and probably teach music to kids. But she didn't fail.

I'm 26. I'm a lot like you, though still in the process of discovering how I can both live honestly and earn a living. For many people, these two go together naturally for most jobs. For others where we decide that traditional resume-padding activities are a waste of time, they don't.

Any tips on how to get started as a math/physics teacher? This sounds potentially satisfying to me. Teaching chess or bridge would be a dream too, though I'm not nearly proficient enough at either activity to pull that off

 

[dusters]

Put an ad that you offer private lessons in the stuff. Try teaching.

Right now, I realise i won't get enough private lessons to substitute for a 9 to 5 job, so i'm feeling this ticking time bomb - plus, sooner or later i have to get a wife and children. I have a plan to get Phd in pedagogy before i turn 50.

I totally would love to be a housewife, but life for two lesbians in Latvia is rather harsh (usually both have to earn) - and i already tried this model and got thrown out of house for telling my girlfriend to quit smoking/drinking and criticising her lifestyle/religion.

 

[Smote]