Sigh, Dean's at it again

[Speedo]

Dearest Democrats: If you had to pick Howard Dean to lead your party, couldn't you at least duct tape his foot to the floor, so maybe, just maybe, he wouldn't stick it in his mouth again? You know, he really isn't helping your party.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/08/dean.gop.ap/index.html

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean on Wednesday defended his recent harsh criticism of Republicans, including his observation that they are "pretty much a white, Christian party."

Dean noted that he, too, is a white Christian. But he said the GOP is too narrow in its scope and the Democratic Party is far more diverse.

While even prominent Democrats in recent days have distanced themselves from some of his comments, the outspoken Dean, appearing on NBC"s "Today" show, said criticism of him is meant by Republicans to divert attention from the country's problems and make him the issue instead.

Dean told a forum of journalists and minority leaders Monday that Republicans are "not very friendly to different kinds of people, they are a pretty monolithic party ... it's pretty much a white, Christian party."

Challenged on that during the NBC interview, Dean said "unfortunately, by and large it is. And they have the agenda of the conservative Christians."

"This is a diversion from the issues that really matter: Social Security, and adequate job opportunity, strong public schools, a strong defense," Dean said.

Asked about it on the "Fox & Friends" show, GOP Party Chairman Ken Mehlman joked that "a lot of folks who attended my Bar Mitzvah would be surprised" he heads a Christian party.

"We gotta get ourselves beyond this point where when we disagree about politics, we call the other guy names," he said.

The former Vermont governor also recently raised eyebrows when he told a group of progressives that Republicans "never made an honest living in their lives," a comment he was forced to explain a day later. The one-time presidential candidate also said that House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, who has not been accused of any crime, ought to go back to Houston where he can serve his jail sentence.

Democratic New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson said Tuesday that Dean is doing a good job, but is not the party's spokesman.

Last weekend, Sen. Joe Biden, D-Delaware, and 2004 vice presidential candidate John Edwards criticized Dean for his recent remarks, saying he doesn't speak for them.

Biden, asked about Dean Wednesday during an interview on the Don Imus radio show, also said the chairman is doing a good job.

"A lot of things he does say, I agree with," Biden said. But he also said that Dean "has views that are slightly different than mine .. .But look, he's a lightning rod. ... It's probably good that there's a guy out there that's a lightning rod ... ."

Biden, however, added that he thinks "the rhetoric is counterproductive."

"I think this country has a purple heart, not a red heart or a blue heart," Biden said. "If we can't bring this (country) together, man, boy, we're really in deep trouble."

 

[amadeus]

Asked about it on the "Fox & Friends" show, GOP Party Chairman Ken Mehlman joked that "a lot of folks who attended my Bar Mitzvah would be surprised" he heads a Christian party.

Classic.

 

[pboily]

Asked about it on the "Fox & Friends" show, GOP Party Chairman Ken Mehlman joked that "a lot of folks who attended my Bar Mitzvah would be surprised" he heads a Christian party.

Not that I disagree that Dean's remark is counter-productive rhetoric, but providing one counter-example to the statment "pretty much a white, Christian party" by exhibiting one counter-example in Mehlman is meaningless. I mean, Mehlman could be THE exception that prompted Dean to qualify his remark with "pretty much"...

Instead, ridicule Howard the Dean by releasing data on the diversity of card-carrying GOPpers. That should speak for itself.

 

[zorven]

While even prominent Democrats in recent days have distanced themselves from some of his comments, the outspoken Dean, appearing on NBC"s "Today" show, said criticism of him is meant by Republicans to divert attention from the country's problems and make him the issue instead.

The few times I have seen Howard Dean recently, he has done nothing but backpedal on his comments, call the Republicans names, and say that we need to focus on issues x, y, and while not offering any solutions to x, y, and z.

 

[Capulet]

The DNC Chief's job isn't to present solutions; he is not the policymaker. His job is to organize the party and build infrastructure; so far, it looks like he's doing a pretty good job at it.

I like Dean, he's straight talking and he tells it like it is.

The GOP is increasingly becoming a party of the religious-right, with Dobson, Robertson, and Falwell having so much influence in it. Not to mention the GOP leaders in the Senate (Frist, Santorum) and in the House (DeLay) are especially entrenched on the religious-right's side.

The GOP is becoming a Christian party. Anyone who doesn't realize that by now is lying or fooling themselves.

 

[Yom]

White Christians make up a supermajority of Republican voters.

 

[Riesstiu IV]

Mmmm... Jimmy Dean bacon.

 

[ybbor]

White Christians make up a supermajority of Republican voters.

inncorrect.

even if all of 23% of voters who are white and evengelical/born again voted for Bush, we would be at least 28% not. So it's not even a simple majority

A supermajority (78% Bush, 21% Kerry) of white christians are republican, but not the other way around

 

[GenMarshall]

Dearest Democrats: If you had to pick Howard Dean to lead your party, couldn't you at least duct tape his foot to the floor, so maybe, just maybe, he wouldn't stick it in his mouth again? You know, he really isn't helping your party.

Its realy sad to see Dean leading the Democrats. I am starting to see that my party is just a Forgotten Hope.

 

[pawpaw]

White Christians make up a supermajority of Republican voters.

bush got 40% of the latino vote

 

[downtown]

oh quit your whining you big babies. the DMC is fine. Dean's job is not to policy make. he's supposed to build an infastructure and raise money. Dean is the best democrat for that in the bussiness. If he does nothing else but help local democrats do well in local elections, then he's a roaring sucsess. All he has to do is keep the stupid things at a min. Bush said all sorts of stupid things, and we made him president twice. Im not worried about Dean

 

[GenMarshall]

oh quit your whining you big babies. the DMC is fine.

Who are you calling a big baby , I dont beleve the DMC is fine unless it changes some of it's platform on certan issues.

Dean is the best democrat for that in the bussiness. If he does nothing else but help local democrats do well in local elections, then he's a roaring sucsess. All he has to do is keep the stupid things at a min. Bush said all sorts of stupid things, and we made him president twice. Im not worried about Dean

I still dont trust Dean, let alone Kerry, to push the DMC into the ground. I just have lost all faith and trust into the Democratic party in hope that it will ever return a senate and house majority and have a Democratic president.

 

[Yom]

inncorrect.

even if all of 23% of voters who are white and evengelical/born again voted for Bush, we would be at least 28% not. So it's not even a simple majority

A supermajority (78% Bush, 21% Kerry) of white christians are republican, but not the other way around

Bush won with 51% of the votes. 44.66% (58% of 77%) of the vote on that day were by whites for Bush. 44.66/51= 87.57% of Bush's votes came from whites. As to Christianity, 45.9% of all people who voted were Christians voting for Bush (59%*54% + 52%*27%). 45.9%/51%=90%

Your link doesn't have enough information (percentage of adherents of a religion that is one race or another), but since 87.5% of Bush's votes came from whites, and 90% of his votes came from Christians. At a minimum, 76.5% of his votes would have come from White Christians. That seems like a supermajority to me. For democrats, the figure is most likely a majority, but not nearly as much as for Republicans. In fact, let me calculate it.

42%*77%=32.34. 32.34/48=67.375% of Democrats are white.

40%*54%=21.6%. 47%*27%=12.69. 21.6+12.69=34.29. 34.29/48=71.4375% of Democrats that are Christians.

At a minimum, 41.75% of Democrats are white Christians. Using minimums only, a minority of Democrats are white Christians, whereas a supermajority (75% even, in this case) are white Christians in the Republican party.

Evangelicals aren't the only Christians.

 

[Mise]

Here's a breakdown of ethnicity/relgion for voters of each party in the last two elections:

link

 

[GenMarshall]

By the look of things, it seems that the majority who voted for Gore/Kerry were unchurched.

 

[Mise]

And a graph to that effect!

(the link, table and graph were posted in a thread I started on why christian americans are right wing.)

 

[GenMarshall]

And a graph to that effect!

(the link, table and graph were posted in a thread I started on why christian americans are right wing.)

Hmm, that poll in the link would be outdated since I just recently reverted back to Christianity, though still unchurched .

 

[Mark1031]

I like Dean. However, the white Christian comment was stupid and counterproductive. Are Democrats ceding the white Christian vote to the Republicans (not a good strategy). Also, having other Democrats go on television and criticize your comments is a bad sign. Dean is a breath of fresh air as he speaks candidly but there needs to be some message discipline both with him and within the party. Also, it plays into republican hands to make comments that seen to be criticizing religion in general or Christianity in particular. The Democrats are portrayed I think unfairly as being antireligious. This is not a good position to be in in a country that is 90 percent religious and predominantly Christian. The Republicans have cynically exploited conservative religious beliefs on a number of social issues to position themselves as the party of God and to use the power that they have gained not to support religious inspired ends except in a few grandstanding cases but to bankrupt the country at the behest of a corporate oligarchy. The trap that must be avoided is to oppose some of those positions without being portrayed as anti God. Someone in the Democratic Party must have the brains to recognize this, it is by far the biggest single problem facing the party. If Dean can't do this then they should get somebody who can. All the grassroots organizing the world is not going to overcome this problem. I am a grass-roots atheist Democrat but I am not anti God or anti religion. I don't think he meant it that way but it sounds somewhat offensive to me.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Deans job is to raise money. He is very good at it and some of the comments he makes increases the donations by certain groups. He has potential to get the party in trouble by using words like 'white christian'. There are many Christians of other ethnic groups that only here the word 'christian', which can be counterproductive across the entire spectrum of Christians.

 

[Mark1031]

I know what he's trying to say but is there not a single political strategist who can get some control over the appropriate language to use in saying it. My God it's not that hard. He's trying to say that the right wing religious groups are influencing public policy too much on issues that Democrats consider personal or family matters. On matters like Terry Shivo you need to use words like personal freedom, private decisions, personal dignity, painful family struggles. On stem cells words like progress, advancement, cures. On abortion, you need to acknowledge that it is a difficult moral decision, that people differ, that it should be minimized, that some restrictions are appropriate and supported by Democrats. On all of these issues the key is not to focus on the religious aspects that are driving the right wing view but on the fact that people are trying to impose their view on complex issues regarding individual liberty and personal medical decisions. It's just stupid to use white Christian as a shorthand for these arguments.