Single Player bugs and crashes v36 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of October 2015

[Pit2015]

Where is it modded where you turned off combat animations? I want to turn it on again to see if its bugged for me or only for some graphic cards.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I'm not sure what XML you're talking about here. Are you referring to the building list in the Civilization Info? The first thing to understand about that is that list crafts what's possible to build and train but it doesn't change the simplistic underlying AI that only selects to build buildings with particular flags, like production buildings for example. It may build, therefore, a religious building that can help it build units faster, but generally speaking barbs care not about health and unhealth, happiness and unhappiness, gold, culture, science, etc... So unless there's a good reason that backs the barbarian cause to build a building, even if the xml says it can doesn't mean it will.

That's my understanding of it at least. I could be corrected by further research.

Yes that is the file I am talking about. It has entries that the barbarian can never build in it. Removing them should at least speed up the decision making which would currently say something like "can I build this now?" only to always be answered "no".

There are other units and buildings in the list which barbarians can build but probably should not build. All the commerce only, health only, etc. buildings. They should probably only be building military and food buildings if they build any buildings at all.

In fact I would prefer if they just built units with any advancement in the weaponry being granted to those or cities units from pillaging, plunder and combat. Similarly I don't think that barbarians should be building routes, mines or other improvements and so don't need workers. They should be building bandit camps on resources which are similar in nature to the watch tower and palisade but have a small permanent garrison and spawn the occasional criminal unit.

There would still be a need for the barbarian cities to expand both in population and culture so that new nations might be created. When a barbarian city becomes a nation, then it should be given basic buildings based on its location and the tech level it will get. It should also get all its local land improved to the same tech level. If it is a group of cities turning into a nation then they should be connected by a route network at the time of creation.

 

[Harrier]

Exactly. NPCs (including barbarians) have much more simplistic AI that doesn't take more advanced things like strategies into account.

That's my understanding of it at least. I could be corrected by further research.

Referring to the above post: posts from from the 'Break saves' thread in early April.

Once the next dll hits the SVN tonight then what we'll need is for the normal barbarian spawning mechanism to be reprogrammed into the spawn mechanism. This is XML work I'm leaving to the rest of the team.

I wouldn't know exactly what we need; but perhaps something like this:

Spoiler :

		<SpawnInfo>
			<Type>SPAWN_BARB_PREH_GROUP_1</Type>
			<UnitType>UNIT_CLUBMAN</UnitType>
			<PlayerType>40</PlayerType>
			<iGlobalTurns>300</iGlobalTurns>
			<iMaxLocalDensity>49</iMaxLocalDensity>
			<iEndDate>-10000</iEndDate>
			<rateOverrideDefineName>BANDIT_SPAWN_MODIFIER</rateOverrideDefineName>
			<FeatureTypes>
				<FeatureType>FEATURE_FOREST</FeatureType>
				<FeatureType>FEATURE_FOREST_BURNT</FeatureType>
				<FeatureType>FEATURE_FOREST_NEW</FeatureType>
				<FeatureType>FEATURE_FOREST_OLD</FeatureType>
			</FeatureTypes>
			<TerrainTypes>
				<TerrainType>TERRAIN_HILL</TerrainType>
			</TerrainTypes>
			<SpawnGroup>
				<UnitType>UNIT_BRUTE</UnitType>
				<UnitType>UNIT_BRUTE</UnitType>
				<UnitType>UNIT_STONE_THROWER</UnitType>
				<UnitType>UNIT_STONE_THROWER</UnitType>
			</SpawnGroup>
		</SpawnInfo>
		<SpawnInfo>
			<Type>SPAWN_BARB_PREH_BRUTE</Type>
			<UnitType>UNIT_BRUTE</UnitType>
			<PlayerType>40</PlayerType>
			<iGlobalTurns>600</iGlobalTurns>
			<iMaxLocalDensity>1</iMaxLocalDensity>
			<iEndDate>-25000</iEndDate>
			<rateOverrideDefineName>BANDIT_SPAWN_MODIFIER</rateOverrideDefineName>
			<FeatureTypes>
				<FeatureType>FEATURE_FOREST</FeatureType>
				<FeatureType>FEATURE_FOREST_BURNT</FeatureType>
				<FeatureType>FEATURE_FOREST_NEW</FeatureType>
				<FeatureType>FEATURE_FOREST_OLD</FeatureType>
			</FeatureTypes>
			<TerrainTypes>
				<TerrainType>TERRAIN_HILL</TerrainType>
			</TerrainTypes>
		</SpawnInfo>

etc.

We will just have to try something out and then adjust spawn frequency depending on the result.

It will be a challenge to adjust start and stop dates in such a way that we don't get too advanced barbs too early and vice versa.

Would TerrainNative tag in unitinfo be better suited for this; not sure how this really works...? Does TerrainNative only spawn barbs (team 40) and is it restricted by barbarian tech level? Does it only stop spawning the unit when it is "Force Obsoleted" by a tech?

I think we need some more discussion on this matter.

Has anything progressed on these matters? They may be related to the current problem with Barbs.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Nothing has happened as far as I know.

The TerrainNative etc is used by the default spawner.

The suggested XML is good. However there are two main problems

1. The C2C spawning is based on turn/year not the tech level of the game so it is very difficult to balance. This is why we only get small locust swarms in the game at the moment. It is to difficult to figure out when the larger ones will provide a challenge but not overwhelm the civilizations.
   
   We don't want to spawn gunmen when the most advanced nation only has wooden spears.
   
   
2. You can't spawn inside barbarian territory.
   

Without those two being addressed I don't think we can progress things. There are a number of Python mods that will spawn barbarians but they are designed to spawn stacks either of raiding parties or full on barbarian migrations.

 

[Thunderbrd]

City guards can attack from ships on sharpshooters and animals.

Please post your save game so that can be replicated (with instructions on how to replicate) and patiently await it to eventually be addressed.

Where is it modded where you turned off combat animations? I want to turn it on again to see if its bugged for me or only for some graphic cards.

In the dll. In numerous ways. It has nothing to do with a particular graphic card.

Yes that is the file I am talking about. It has entries that the barbarian can never build in it. Removing them should at least speed up the decision making which would currently say something like "can I build this now?" only to always be answered "no".

There are other units and buildings in the list which barbarians can build but probably should not build. All the commerce only, health only, etc. buildings. They should probably only be building military and food buildings if they build any buildings at all.

I don't mind some restructuring there or auditing of that list.

In fact I would prefer if they just built units with any advancement in the weaponry being granted to those or cities units from pillaging, plunder and combat. Similarly I don't think that barbarians should be building routes, mines or other improvements and so don't need workers. They should be building bandit camps on resources which are similar in nature to the watch tower and palisade but have a small permanent garrison and spawn the occasional criminal unit.

There would still be a need for the barbarian cities to expand both in population and culture so that new nations might be created. When a barbarian city becomes a nation, then it should be given basic buildings based on its location and the tech level it will get. It should also get all its local land improved to the same tech level. If it is a group of cities turning into a nation then they should be connected by a route network at the time of creation.

One would need a significant amount of reprogramming for much of this and I'm not sure it would mean much to actual game experience... I like connecting such cities by a route when it becomes a nation.

Referring to the above post: posts from from the 'Break saves' thread in early April.

Has anything progressed on these matters? They may be related to the current problem with Barbs.

I... will have to check. I think it was but I cannot remember. I would've mentioned it in SVN commits around that time.

You can't spawn inside barbarian territory.

Why not?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Nothing can spawn inside any cultural borders including the barbarians borders. That is the way the C2C spawn method was built.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Nothing can spawn inside any cultural borders including the barbarians borders. That is the way the C2C spawn method was built.

That has changed. I'd have to go back and locate where it was explained how it works.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

That has changed. I'd have to go back and locate where it was explained how it works.

Oh good. There are a lot of barbarian improvements I would like to have used eg bandit camp to spawn bandits.

 

[arihant]

Please post your save game so that can be replicated (with instructions on how to replicate) and patiently await it to eventually be addressed.

Save game uploaded

I declared war on jivario empire, conquered capital city Alto nanay and when i tried unload city guards they attacked sharshooters.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Oh good. There are a lot of barbarian improvements I would like to have used eg bandit camp to spawn bandits.

I may have to write some further exception situations for that sort of thing. But I'd be happy to do it now that I've shown the spawn mechanism can manage it.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Save game uploaded

I declared war on jivario empire, conquered capital city Alto nanay and when i tried unload city guards they attacked sharshooters.

Thanks! I'm back on page 100 or so still and working myself forward but I'll get to this eventually.

 

[Niveras]

Regarding the Grand Fire Festival, it requires Torches, but are replaced by Oil Lamps. I was unable to build Torches after having reseached Oil Lamps, even when I turned of "Hide Obsolete" or "Hide Replaced" buildings in the C2C's tab of the BUG options. (Not sure why; by comparison, all the obsolete bridge buildings were available.) Simple solution would be to require either torches or oil lamps, and possibly whatever other replacements there might be along that line, until the festival itself is rendered obsolete.

(I also wouldn't mind if a late building could be added as an alternative to the Volcano requirement.)

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Is it intended that "normal" civs start with the Neanderthal culture? (Not 100% sure if it is all civs but I have their Native Culture with Hittite currently, and I'm sure I've seen it with other non-ME civs as well.) Normally I wouldn't much care but it does say 20% less food for cities. (Maybe this is a result of my starting in Ancient instead of Prehistory era?)

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There are bunch of 'new' (started several revisions ago, I'm late mentioning this) promotions available that used to not be; instead, they were only available as under certain circumstances (from buildings in the city). Examples are bamboo armor, tattoo, aggressive, hidden nationality (doesn't appear to let you attack without war, though), discount, maybe poison tips. Some are even available to workers or other miscellaneous units (settlers can get discount, for example, if they have experience from the city) and otherwise bypass some restrictions. Is it intended that these are now available as promotions through leveling in addition to being added free under certain conditions?

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I've been seeing near-0 barbs in my recent games, only animals. Sometimes they'll pop from huts if I don't use an explorer type, but no cities or randomly spawning units. I've seen screenshots of other people with barbs in their games, are they playing with the Barb Cities option on? (The one that spawns cities on mapgen.)

 

[Harrier]

Tried again with current SVN 9247.

Did a brand new SVN download and export to a clean file. Defragged etc.

The game still CTD during the initial load screen, before you get to the menu options.

I can see others can run newer versions. So I expect the problem is that I am still using windows XP.

I have found the problem, it is SVN download # 9218.

These are the new cultures that Sparth added to the "Modules - My_Mods" folders.

I initially deleted these new folders and the game loaded.

I then tried moving them to "Modules - My_Mods(unloaded)" This also worked.

So as long as I do not load those additional cultures the game loads. Now using current SVN.

Sparth, any Idea what the problem might be? Just curious.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Is it intended that "normal" civs start with the Neanderthal culture? (Not 100% sure if it is all civs but I have their Native Culture with Hittite currently, and I'm sure I've seen it with other non-ME civs as well.) Normally I wouldn't much care but it does say 20% less food for cities. (Maybe this is a result of my starting in Ancient instead of Prehistory era?)

Possibly. It's possible to have some funny stuff taking place there too. I'd need to see in-game what you're saying exactly, given the many uses of the term culture we have.

There are bunch of 'new' (started several revisions ago, I'm late mentioning this) promotions available that used to not be; instead, they were only available as under certain circumstances (from buildings in the city). Examples are bamboo armor, tattoo, aggressive, hidden nationality (doesn't appear to let you attack without war, though), discount, maybe poison tips. Some are even available to workers or other miscellaneous units (settlers can get discount, for example, if they have experience from the city) and otherwise bypass some restrictions. Is it intended that these are now available as promotions through leveling in addition to being added free under certain conditions?

No it is not. Perhaps the renaming of the tech prerequisite has caused something funny to take place here... Toffer? Are you able to take a look at this? You changed the tech name to TECH_DUMMY - did you allow the tech to be taken by any civs? Like if they use a start other than prehistoric perhaps or does it automatically now get assigned? The trick is that it should never be something the player can possess nor see.

 

[strategyonly]

Perhaps the renaming of the tech prerequisite has caused something funny to take place here... Toffer? Are you able to take a look at this? You changed the tech name to TECH_DUMMY - did you allow the tech to be taken by any civs? .

He hasn't been around in around a month or so, and was here only once in May(16)??

So really going on 2 months . . .

 

[Thunderbrd]

He said he was having some connectivity issues if I recall. I doubt he'll be gone for long.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The FirstFreeUnitClass does seems to have stopped working. I am not getting the unit I should get when I am the first to study it.

It could be something to do with changes to the Great People display/pop up as the units I am expecting are not GP. It used to be that we would get the GP pop-up for these units but now we don't get the unit or the pop-up.

 

[Thunderbrd]

The FirstFreeUnitClass does seems to have stopped working. I am not getting the unit I should get when I am the first to study it.

It could be something to do with changes to the Great People display/pop up as the units I am expecting are not GP. It used to be that we would get the GP pop-up for these units but now we don't get the unit or the pop-up.

Strange... I don't know what would've been changed in the dll on that either. It does warrant further investigation once I catch up to this point in the thread.

 

[futar]

(About Big Cat Trainer getting obsolete)

I think this building was fixed recently.

Seems like it aint fixed. Also "drugs" becomes impossible to get it seems,, have to trade it from someone else, ie. can't build more advanced medics doctors etc. Been running two games from prehist and up, both these things happened each time.

Uses the last SVN. (running a game saved from v9230).

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

(About Big Cat Trainer getting obsolete)



Seems like it aint fixed. Also "drugs" becomes impossible to get it seems,, have to trade it from someone else, ie. can't build more advanced medics doctors etc. Been running two games from prehist and up, both these things happened each time.

Uses the last SVN. (running a game saved from v9230).

When should "Feline Superior" go obsolete? I'll change the Big Cat Trainer building to go obsolete at the same time.

To get drugs you need to build

• hemp plantation in a city with hemp improved and connected in its vicinity
• Coca plantation " coca "
• Kava plantation " kava "
• Peyote plantation " peyote "
• Poppy plantation " opium "
• Tobacco Plantation " tobacco "
• Plus a bunch of less likely buildings