Single Player bugs and crashes v36 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of October 2015

[Thunderbrd]

@ DH

here it is again that darn Holy Mountain python error??

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvRandomEventInterface", line 171, in getHelpHolyMountain1

ArgumentError: Python argument types in
CyTranslator.getText(CyTranslator, str, int)
did not match C++ signature:
getText(class CyTranslator {lvalue}, char const *, class boost:ython::tuple {lvalue})
ERR: Python function getHelpHolyMountain1 failed, module CvRandomEventInterface

This may be due to how it figures out what a peak is differs from how it figures it out in another segment. aka, caused by some features now being able to count as a peak.

Perhaps now that we have natural wonders, one or a few of those should be made the target of the quest?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@ DH

here it is again that darn Holy Mountain python error??

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvRandomEventInterface", line 171, in getHelpHolyMountain1

ArgumentError: Python argument types in
CyTranslator.getText(CyTranslator, str, int)
did not match C++ signature:
getText(class CyTranslator {lvalue}, char const *, class boost:ython::tuple {lvalue})
ERR: Python function getHelpHolyMountain1 failed, module CvRandomEventInterface

It has been a different problem every time. Last time it was because some religions don't have a cathedral level building or have two. I can never test it properly because I can't make the quest happen being a random event.

This is where I am using the language function to put the number into the quest message. Which suggests that there may be something wrong with the number or the way I am passing or using the number. I am using %d1 in the text so maybe it should just be %d or maybe I need to put a comma after the number in the call. I don't know.

 

[strategyonly]

The enemy is STILL sending out UN-armed siege units (log) see pic

 

[JosEPh_II]

The enemy is STILL sending out UN-armed siege units (log) see pic

Yes they still are.

But another thing we need to see, is when you get to battering rams, is if they begin to build up on every tile around their city. This is the root of the Ram Spam thatcan take over a game.

From what I'm seeing certain Leaders do it more than others. That too needs to be noted.

JosEPh

 

[strategyonly]

Yes they still are.

But another thing we need to see, is when you get to battering rams, is if they begin to build up on every tile around their city. This is the root of the Ram Spam thatcan take over a game.

From what I'm seeing certain Leaders do it more than others. That too needs to be noted.

JosEPh

From what i am seeing so far, the only ones doing this is the Barbarians, i dont see an of the regular civs doing this?

 

[Thunderbrd]

That issue with the rams will be there until a major project is undertaken to separate Siege AI from City Attack. Bundling them together has generated problems. That was done long ago... not sure by who. Wasn't going to address that til v38's cycle. I know its a visible problem but no greater than many of the unseen ones.

Now that Joe has added the NotAI tag to them though I may be able to do a review there and find some causes for being switched over to another AI type may not be checking the NotAI tag first before doing so and that could be a quickfix for now.

I'll have to look at a save where they're all scattered about like that and see what the AI type they've been set to is.

 

[JosEPh_II]

From what i am seeing so far, the only ones doing this is the Barbarians, i dont see an of the regular civs doing this?

If it ends up only being the barbs doing this then we've made some real improvements in AI warfare.

And we had Rams, that when they get introduced into the game, "were" the strongest or one of the strongest units in the game at that time. That was just plain wrong. The AI will always select the strongest to build up.

Now that the Ram line's str has been reduced to more appropriate levels the main attack units should be built more than the rams were.

More test games needed obviously.

EDIT: This is a screen shot of a game started before the recent changes by T-brd and me. Every stack shown (40 units in each stack) are mostly Siege Rams with 1 or 2 Siege Onagers and a Bowman and several War Rhinos.

As this game has progressed with the new changes Sennacherib has slowly been changing the composition of those stacks. But I have to destroy 40 units at a time to keep from being over ran. Trouble for Sennacherib is that when he does attack a city he quickly reduces it walls but he does not have enough Main attack units to do any harm to my cities. So I counter attack and destroy the stack by having Siege Promos on most every unit I have.

I have 2 other Empires to the East and North (Mansa Musa and Brennus), neither have built stacks like Sennacherib has. That makes me wonder if Leader traits play a role too.

JosEPh

 

[strategyonly]

One thing i have noticed recently is that the Thief is NOT being deleted from the build area, once u are able to build the Rogue? I think i saw also same for the Rogue to Assassin/Burglar?

EDIT:

Also why are the Rams fighting units when attacking a city, when it should be the walls only?? pic 1, i lose all the rams and the walls remain at great strength, and i lose ALL my troops because of this??

Now i lost ALL my rams, and i cant even attack because of the 60% stuff? What do i need 50 rams? and 50 troops each? (pic 2)

Not complaining, just asking??????

 

[tmv]

I think the attacking of the wall by the ram is represented by attacking a defending unit. As long as the ram can continue to attack the unit, the wall gets damaged.

 

[JosEPh_II]

One thing i have noticed recently is that the Thief is NOT being deleted from the build area, once u are able to build the Rogue? I think i saw also same for the Rogue to Assassin/Burglar?

EDIT:

Also why are the Rams fighting units when attacking a city, when it should be the walls only?? pic 1, i lose all the rams and the walls remain at great strength, and i lose ALL my troops because of this??

Now i lost ALL my rams, and i cant even attack because of the 60% stuff? What do i need 50 rams? and 50 troops each? (pic 2)

Not complaining, just asking??????

Once the Rams no longer have the Bullseye Icon option they have done their job. Do Not use them to attack units inside. They have No AI for that. To do so is to basically kill them off.

2nd Screenie the walls are back to 81%. If you attacked with your 10 OB Axe and other attack units the defending units inside the city Still have a 21% buff in str over your attackers.

JosEPh

 

[JosEPh_II]

I think the attacking of the wall by the ram is represented by attacking a defending unit. As long as the ram can continue to attack the unit, the wall gets damaged.

This is only true If the Rams have Collateral Damage Promo and or Assault Promo. Otherwise the Ram is Only attacking the Wall defense represented by the %. No damage to inside units without appropriate promo on Rams. If Assualt Button is still on Options for Rams then you can try Assault (Red ring button) but most of the time you get little or no damage off just the 1st Assault promo.

JosEPh

 

[strategyonly]

Once the Rams no longer have the Bullseye Icon option they have done their job. Do Not use them to attack units inside. They have No AI for that. To do so is to basically kill them off.


JosEPh

Rams dont have the bullseye icon.

EDIT: Also just found out that the "barbarians" are building ALOT of "workboats"?? at least in this city(pic 1)

also, i like it now the Barbs are going OUT and covering the resources and with an attacker also, nice, and look also at the Barb cities LOTs and LOTS of units same as regular civs, way better . . (pic 2)

lower right minimap, i ONLY started with 3 civs, WOW!!!!!

 

[Thunderbrd]

One thing i have noticed recently is that the Thief is NOT being deleted from the build area, once u are able to build the Rogue? I think i saw also same for the Rogue to Assassin/Burglar?

EDIT:

Also why are the Rams fighting units when attacking a city, when it should be the walls only?? pic 1, i lose all the rams and the walls remain at great strength, and i lose ALL my troops because of this??

Now i lost ALL my rams, and i cant even attack because of the 60% stuff? What do i need 50 rams? and 50 troops each? (pic 2)

Not complaining, just asking??????

Your opponent has a tremendous amount of defensive bonus. The rams aren't being very effective simply because the strength they are attacking is VERY high. The way to address this is to bring along archers that can ranged assault - even better if you can get some bellybowmen in there to do the same because they will hit the best defender first. If you can wear them down a little before the rams go in you'll have a lot more success with the rams. OR you can just bring LOTS of rams (and merged if you can.) I'm sure you're doing SOME damage to the walls...

Seriously though, there is a reason I've not pulled the AI back all that far on how many rams they bring with them. An assault against a well defended city can be very difficult.

This is only true If the Rams have Collateral Damage Promo and or Assault Promo. Otherwise the Ram is Only attacking the Wall defense represented by the %. No damage to inside units without appropriate promo on Rams. If Assualt Button is still on Options for Rams then you can try Assault (Red ring button) but most of the time you get little or no damage off just the 1st Assault promo.

JosEPh

This is actually somewhat untrue. When rams go to attack, they do engage the defending unit in battle. They just have a few added effects. Each round they attempt to knock down the defenses. The % chance of success on this is shown in the combat help, as well as the amount they'll reduce the defenses if successful. There are many rounds to one battle, more if they can survive it longer.

If rams can knock the opponent unit down to the amount of damage that's represented by their Combat Limit, they will continue to attack but at that point they'll only be attacking the walls and potentially taking hits from the defender who can still injure them. However, if they are lucky enough to be in this position, they can do a lot of damage because their relative combat strength to their heavily injured enemy is helping them to minimize the amount of damage they are taking themselves. Additionally, when they reach the same amount of damage as the Combat Limit, and their opponent is also at the Combat Limit in damage, then at that point they get a free, potentially automatic, withdrawal (which CAN be countered by pursuit in ForF.)

But yeah, suffice it to say, their combat strength CAN matter a great deal as they ARE engaging the lead defender to come in and tear down the wall. Note: This means that having weakened their strength is greatly weakening their overall effectiveness. But that's fine since I think they were a bit too strong anyhow.

 

[strategyonly]

The way to address this is to bring along archers that can ranged assault - .

Never even thought of that, DUH

 

[JosEPh_II]

<snip>

This is actually somewhat untrue. When rams go to attack, they do engage the defending unit in battle. They just have a few added effects. Each round they attempt to knock down the defenses. The % chance of success on this is shown in the combat help, as well as the amount they'll reduce the defenses if successful. There are many rounds to one battle, more if they can survive it longer.

If rams can knock the opponent unit down to the amount of damage that's represented by their Combat Limit, they will continue to attack but at that point they'll only be attacking the walls and potentially taking hits from the defender who can still injure them. However, if they are lucky enough to be in this position, they can do a lot of damage because their relative combat strength to their heavily injured enemy is helping them to minimize the amount of damage they are taking themselves. Additionally, when they reach the same amount of damage as the Combat Limit, and their opponent is also at the Combat Limit in damage, then at that point they get a free, potentially automatic, withdrawal (which CAN be countered by pursuit in ForF.)

But yeah, suffice it to say, their combat strength CAN matter a great deal as they ARE engaging the lead defender to come in and tear down the wall. Note: This means that having weakened their strength is greatly weakening their overall effectiveness. But that's fine since I think they were a bit too strong anyhow.

Is this in context for the whole mod whether you are using the CM components or Not?

I guess I just need to refrain from commenting since how it plays for me does not "seem" to be how you say. But you know the code and I don't and I only have limited scope of play experience because I don't normally use any of the CM components.

Which all goes back to my gripe of 2 years ago that City defenses are too strong. And because they are so strong then the AI and Player have to generate way too many units. Which bogs the game down by turn 250 on a Normal gamespeed game. Once Battering rams and especially Siege Rams come on line it has become a night mare to take a city during that time frame of the game. So the player has to have an army of hundreds and hundreds of units just to stave off the AI that has Thousands of units by that time. Luckily the AI code for attacking and taking your cities was messed up so the player did not need hundreds of rams to sit around protecting his territory like the AI thinks it needs to do. Or rather Used to think it did.

Maybe now, with the latest changes, the AI will overrun my cities with actual fighting units and not stacks of 40 Rams on every tile that can not capture a city.

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@SO I have found the problem you were having with the animal placing a herd in a city. I had missed a couple of the advanced versions. I should have a fix up there soon.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Is this in context for the whole mod whether you are using the CM components or Not?

Both. Breakdown works the same regardless. Of course, with SM, these units CAN be merged and thus made a bit stronger so may have a better shot of being effective. But with recent adjustments to minimum desired city defenses, though the AI would take longer to achieve desired defense levels, they should be better matching against merged rams coming in to compare a little closer to what the main mod would see.

I guess I just need to refrain from commenting since how it plays for me does not "seem" to be how you say. But you know the code and I don't and I only have limited scope of play experience because I don't normally use any of the CM components.

If you've got the defenders worn down enough you wouldn't see much of any damage to the defender from the ram since there's a limit to how much the ram can deliver in regards to damage. This COULD be why it may not appear to be harming the defender. Another reason is that the primary defender of the tile is always going to be the strongest one there and since rams do NOT do any collateral, the next one that comes up to defend may be a completely healthy carbon copy of the first defensive unit, which could give the impression you've gotten too.

Which all goes back to my gripe of 2 years ago that City defenses are too strong. And because they are so strong then the AI and Player have to generate way too many units. Which bogs the game down by turn 250 on a Normal gamespeed game. Once Battering rams and especially Siege Rams come on line it has become a night mare to take a city during that time frame of the game. So the player has to have an army of hundreds and hundreds of units just to stave off the AI that has Thousands of units by that time. Luckily the AI code for attacking and taking your cities was messed up so the player did not need hundreds of rams to sit around protecting his territory like the AI thinks it needs to do. Or rather Used to think it did.

It won't be quite as bad once units cost more. There's some AI adjustments to be made to get the AI to gauge its needed attack and defensive force a little better as well. Particularly once units cost more. But with them costing more, the value of an individual unit will increase in the game and thus we can start looking at reducing how much the AI feels it NEEDS before it can attack.

Largely, proper strategy can still make cities quite easy to conquer and if some are too strong to take, then that's a good thing because defenses should NOT be something easily overcome otherwise invasion strategies become almighty in the game and steamrolls far too easily achieved and then no size map can keep things interesting through to modern and beyond. I don't think we've made it IMPOSSIBLE to take cities by any means still.

Maybe now, with the latest changes, the AI will overrun my cities with actual fighting units and not stacks of 40 Rams on every tile that can not capture a city.

It should be helping, yes. I do look forward to improving the way they go to fight. Patience is requested on this front.

 

[JosEPh_II]

It won't be quite as bad once units cost more.

I just don't see this happening. Another not enough , too much issues again from my point of view. And upgrading a unit won't happen. It will be better to "kill" off the old unit and build the newest vs upgrading.

Hope I'm wrong again.

JosEPh

 

[strategyonly]

@SO I have found the problem you were having with the animal placing a herd in a city. I had missed a couple of the advanced versions. I should have a fix up there soon.

Holy smokes, here i thought you were just ignoring me, lol,jj

Good 4u, i knew if i bothered u long enough u'd get it.

btw ALL, i have a C++ guy working on getting a NEW mercenaries system inplace, for "regular" games, and i asked him if he could try to get it into C2C as a module and he said he didnt know C2C as a game perspective, but if he can he will, but it might take a YEAR(or so),(if at all), just info . . .

 

[Thunderbrd]

I just don't see this happening. Another not enough , too much issues again from my point of view. And upgrading a unit won't happen. It will be better to "kill" off the old unit and build the newest vs upgrading.

Hope I'm wrong again.

JosEPh

By cost I mean production cost. Since upgrade cost in gold is equated directly to production then that might be true, might not. But with higher production costs on units almost across the board, in general it WILL take longer to get units into the game, even if you're still able to do it out of your best cities at multiple units per round, it's going to end up being LESS multiple units per round.

And one can always argue whether it would be better to rebuild the unit or set cities to produce gold and then upgrade them. Another argument for re-training them at the moment would be that many types would be able to get the benefits of a lot more XP. Others may be doing much better to be upgraded. This is usually what drives the decision for me in most cases anyhow.