Single Player bugs and crashes v36 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of October 2015

[Toffer90]

Probably because I'm not loading this with the modmod, I found a load crash point rather than a crash point. However, the mini suggests it WAS the same problem as Usul13 experienced, which was an animation crash (I believe) with the great white shark - though yours could've been any other unit rather than just that one as the mini can't help me to narrow in on which unit it was, only that the crash spot in the code was exactly the same.

EDIT: Was able to work out the crash point on load fine but there's no crash during the processing (at least not without including your modmod.)

Before I take the very lengthy steps to test your modmod files included, do me a favor and turn your quick combat options on in the vanilla in-game options panel. Then see what combat reports you get when you (presumably) make it through the round you're crashing at. Those units mentioned in battle may have some animation issues that are causing the crash you're experiencing.

Turning on quick combat (defense) fixes numerous crash points (tested).
I investigated one particular crash point and found out that it was a brown bear attacking my wanderer that caused the crash. I believe it has something to do with the bear being completely invisible to the wanderer even when they are sharing a tile. This was a regular attack, no ambush/assassin mission, they were not sharing the tile when I hit "end turn".

Edit: Do you know why wise women, watcher, Enforcer and story tellers that the AI gets in goody huts are incapable of leaving the plot they were gained at.
I'm guessing the UNITAI_PROPERTY_CONTROL doesn't have instructions for what to do when in neutral territory. Either that or goody huts spawns them with the wrong UnitAI.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Turning on quick combat (defense) fixes numerous crash points (tested).
I investigated one particular crash point and found out that it was a brown bear attacking my wanderer that caused the crash. I believe it has something to do with the bear being completely invisible to the wanderer even when they are sharing a tile. This was a regular attack, no ambush/assassin mission, they were not sharing the tile when I hit "end turn".

Interesting. That is a possibility of course (that invisibility is creating the issue). I can't say for certainty I could find a way to resolve that but coming at it from that perspective I MIGHT be able to figure out a fix. hmm...

Edit: Do you know why wise women, watcher, Enforcer and story tellers that the AI gets in goody huts are incapable of leaving the plot they were gained at.
I'm guessing the UNITAI_PROPERTY_CONTROL doesn't have instructions for what to do when in neutral territory. Either that or goody huts spawns them with the wrong UnitAI.

Interesting. I had not seen this taking place. So its good you point it out. Property control does have instructions on where to go when its needed but it MAY not have a 'if not needed anywhere and you're not useful at all where you are then at least get somewhere!' segment it would benefit from in this case and potentially others. Of course, in THIS case, being given by a goody hut, I'd prefer to see them join the group or unit that got the goody so as to support them. I'll have to look into this when I get back to further AI structuring.

 

[Usul13]

Ok, so apparently we have an issue with the Great White Shark animations. I think it may be the death animation or withdrawal or something. Put him in combat without quick combat options on and it produces a crash.

You can get past this by turning the quick combat options on in the main in-game vanilla options tab but one of our animators will need to take a look at what's going on with this critter.

There MIGHT also be potentially a problem with my <Title> tag on the groupspawnunitcombat tags and it could be setting up this crash in the exe but I don't think so due to the fact that quick combat gets around the issue and if I'm using the quick combat options I get a correct message report about this problem causing battle. If this was actually the source of an issue I'd think I'd not be getting correct text reports either way.

Thanks, I'll keep in mind this option next time I run into a CTD. I never used it before.

 

[strategyonly]

@Toffer

another one u got to tell people about when deleting or changing a civ's name, it defaults to the top alphabetical named civ, IE: see pic 1/2
dont know for sure it will work as a barb civ now, will see??

also, the green what ever it is flag, for animals, just is GREEN to me, looks bad, sorry??

see graphics thread

 

[Arakhor]

I did say that the green and grey one would be much better.

 

[Toffer90]

@Toffer

another one u got to tell people about when deleting or changing a civ's name, it defaults to the top alphabetical named civ, IE: see pic 1/2
dont know for sure it will work as a barb civ now, will see??

Sorry, I forgot to mention that my last commit is no good with old saves.
Was overly ready to sleep when I committed it.

 

[strategyonly]

1. Got a CTD on my maps i have there, is there something new i need to do to them to make them work, but here's the dump just incase??*mini attached)

2. How come in the NEW animal system, the animals DONT move around?? they are stagnant?? (pic1)

3. With Revolutions ON, the warning sign shows up 2-3 times EACH time, then also the same amount for the "at war" warning right after that also 2-3 times?? something must have changed in the coding?? Pic 2)

 

[Toffer90]

1. Got a CTD on my maps i have there, is there something new i need to do to them to make them work, but here's the dump just incase??*mini attached)

You'll need to play with quick combat until TB can figure out why animal attacks often crashes the game.

2. How come in the NEW animal system, the animals DONT move around?? they are stagnant?? (pic1)

I've seen this too, I think it was like this before I gave them a new leader, but I didn't get enough play-testing between that and the splitting of barb-animals to really say for sure.
This is an annoying AI bug!

 

[strategyonly]

You'll need to play with quick combat until TB can figure out why animal attacks often crashes the game.

I've seen this too, I think it was like this before I gave them a new leader, but I didn't get enough play-testing between that and the splitting of barb-animals to really say for sure.
This is an annoying AI bug!

I always DO play with quick combat plus quick off/def also on.

One other thing i am seeing is that even the ones with the Agg, black teeth flag, DONT attack, only ones i seen so far that are attacking are the Sloth and Brown bear?

 

[Toffer90]

I always DO play with quick combat plus quick off/def also on.

One other thing i am seeing is that even the ones with the Agg, black teeth flag, DONT attack, only ones i seen so far that are attacking are the Sloth and Brown bear?

Many of the predators (black face) don't attack just anything, hide and seek would put some action to it as animals can then use their assassin ability against usually deer flag animals and stealth defense against anyone.

But as long as animals are behaving as ret*rded as they do now, being almost immobile, any specifics balancing for animals must wait.

 

[strategyonly]

Many of the predators (black face) don't attack just anything, hide and seek would put some action to it as animals can then use their assassin ability against usually deer flag animals and stealth defense against anyone.

But as long as animals are behaving as ret*rded as they do now, being almost immobile, any specifics balancing for animals must wait.

ok, i optioned for NPC not to attack other NPC's. And i didnt know that we need to also use Hide and Seek, i dont use any of the CombatMod stuff either . .

 

[Toffer90]

ok, i optioned for NPC not to attack other NPC's. And i didnt know that we need to also use Hide and Seek, i dont use any of the CombatMod stuff either . .

I didn't wholly consider how some of my changes to animals would affect those playing without H&S, but I'm open for changing stuff further.
I set up some animals like reptile to be Defensive only and rather utilize stealth defense on anyone that tries to enter their tile, they also have a fairly high camouflage invisibility. This wouldn't work well without H&S.
I was thinking about realism when I decided on this as reptiles rarely seek out prey, they wait for prey to come to them. We could make them more active hunters (remove defensive only) again and rather reduce their aggressiveness instead.

If there is a specific animal you feel should not be "Defensive Only", tell me and I'll probably change it without discussion.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I use none of the combat options. Which should mean that my units should not be capable of being on the same plot any other player's units that I am at war with, and I should be at war with all the animals. Criminals are OK but no others.

 

[Toffer90]

I use none of the combat options. Which should mean that my units should not be capable of being on the same plot any other player's units that I am at war with, and I should be at war with all the animals. Criminals are OK but no others.

So no animals should be "Defensive Only" then? Even the pigeon...
Or, just no animals from claw and black face teams should be "Defensive Only"? So for example: the arctic fox (black face team) should not be "Defensive Only".

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

My Scout was attacked by a hippopotamus and every brown bear it came across. All the other hippos and animals ignored it and I could move into the same plot. This meant that I was able to explore the world very fast rather than being confined to about 15-20 plots of my city up until about Canine Domestication. I felt this was a good slow down in exploration as many people were complaining about exploring to fast.

My trackers are also finding it hard to get animals. Horses move much faster than hunters and the birds all retreat into the mountains or to sea where I can't get at them.

Also, there is something wrong with the Duck. My trackers only have a 20% chance to defeat them but a 99% chance against deer or lions.

 

[Toffer90]

My Scout was attacked by a hippopotamus and every brown bear it came across. All the other hippos and animals ignored it and I could move into the same plot. This meant that I was able to explore the world very fast rather than being confined to about 15-20 plots of my city up until about Canine Domestication. I felt this was a good slow down in exploration as many people were complaining about exploring to fast.

I agree, there should be many dangers in a prehistoric wilderness.

My trackers are also finding it hard to get animals. Horses move much faster than hunters and the birds all retreat into the mountains or to sea where I can't get at them.

Once again a big difference in not using H&S. With hide and seek most birds (except raptors) are practically blind and will thus not flee from a threat due to having a very low combat quality. A new behavior tag might be needed to make certain animals less inclined to perceive threats even without H&S.
TB talked about a territorial behavior tag, that could be used for animals that typically stand their ground to protect their home range from intruders; albeit different from what might be needed for birds that should move around the map more freely.

Also, there is something wrong with the Duck. My trackers only have a 20% chance to defeat them but a 99% chance against deer or lions.

That is probably a combat odds bug related to it having this <iDamageModifierChange>-100</iDamageModifierChange>. it should be harmless.

 

[Arakhor]

Why does the game still have inoffensive creatures like ducks and pigeons? Is it some bizarre resource requirement or is it because someone has a secret passion for birds?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Why does the game still have inoffensive creatures like ducks and pigeons? Is it some bizarre resource requirement or is it because someone has a secret passion for birds?

I'm really surprised you ask this.

Ducks when subdued after Poultry tech give flocks which produce resource Eggs and Feathers and give a small Hammer/food boost.

Pidgeons give Feathers

Both have other buildings they open up that can give boost to research and or commerce thru Various buildings like Myth and Hunting/XP.

Did you seriously not know this?

JosEPh

 

[JosEPh_II]

I agree, there should be many dangers in a prehistoric wilderness.

Once again a big difference in not using H&S. With hide and seek most birds (except raptors) are practically blind and will thus not flee from a threat due to having a very low combat quality. A new behavior tag might be needed to make certain animals less inclined to perceive threats even without H&S.
TB talked about a territorial behavior tag, that could be used for animals that typically stand their ground to protect their home range from intruders; albeit different from what might be needed for birds that should move around the map more freely.

That is probably a combat odds bug related to it having this <iDamageModifierChange>-100</iDamageModifierChange>. it should be harmless.

Please consider that Many players do Not want to use H&S. This is Forcing everyone to use it. This will eventually lead to the same state we had back in v17 where City Limits and Fixed Borders were going to be Forced upon everyone and created a real hostile experience for all. That's why they were made into Options that did Not bleed into basic C2C play. Pleas don't go there, Please.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'll take a look at some of these issues as soon as I can.